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Are we, as Christians tasked to rescue people physically as well as spiritually?

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    Are we, as Christians tasked to rescue people physically as well as spiritually?

    I just heard a comment that suggested that it is our responsibility to help those in third world countries. How far, if so do we have to go? Letting them enter our country, by any means necessary? Sending them revenue? What?

    #2
    Originally posted by just_me View Post
    I just heard a comment that suggested that it is our responsibility to help those in third world countries. How far, if so do we have to go? Letting them enter our country, by any means necessary? Sending them revenue? What?
    I take issue when you shift from "I" to "we". Lemme explain, I point this out because your individual responsibility can be misconstrued as "compelling" others to charity. Charity is a free will offering, that is, one cannot actually be charitable under compulsion. If I put a gun to your head and say give this or that to them, technically, you did not exercise virtue. Any virtue would be stripped from the transaction. You may not of cheerfully gave. In other words, paying into taxes under compulsion of prison time is not virtuous.

    Scripture says a lot about generosity and our duty to the poor.
    • James 1:27 27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.
    And Scriptures says a lot about exploitation:
    • Proverbs 6:6-11 Go to the ant, O sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise. 7 Without having any chief, officer, or ruler, 8 she prepares her bread in summer and gathers her food in harvest9 How long will you lie there, O sluggard? When will you arise from your sleep? 10 A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest11 and poverty will come upon you like a robber, and want like an armed man.
    • 2 Thessalonians 3:10-12 10 For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat. 11 For we hear that some among you walk in idleness, not busy at work, but busybodies. 12 Now such persons we command and encourage in the Lord Jesus Christ to do their work quietly and to earn their own living.
    I personally do not think there is enough screening. We spend funding foolishly towards those that do nothing but exploit systems and others which contribute into them.

    God bless,
    William

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by William View Post

      First of all, I take issue when you shift from "I" to "we". I point this out because your individual responsibility can be misconstrued as "compelling" others to charity. Charity is a free will offering, and one cannot actually be charitable under compulsion. If I put a gun to your head and say give this or that to them, technically, you did not exercise a charitable nature. You may not of cheerfully gave. In other words, paying into taxes under compulsion of prison time does not replace charity.

      Scripture says a lot about generosity and our duty to the poor.
      • James 1:27 27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.
      And Scriptures says a lot about exploitation:
      • 2 Thessalonians 3:10-12 10 For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat. 11 For we hear that some among you walk in idleness, not busy at work, but busybodies. 12 Now such persons we command and encourage in the Lord Jesus Christ to do their work quietly and to earn their own living.
      I personally do not think there is enough screening. We spend funding foolishly towards those that do nothing but exploit systems and others which contribute into them.

      God bless,
      William
      I am not asking a question as if it were to control my actions. I am asking from a Biblical since as to how far should we go as a Christian because we are, as a group considered representing him by what we do and what we refrain from doing. The right seems to be hell bent on doing things one way and much of the country seems to believe we are surgically attached to them. In the current political environment we, as Christians need to stay withing our own boundrys as far as how far we go and that is why I asked this question.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by just_me View Post
        I am asking from a Biblical since as to how far should we go as a Christian because we are, as a group considered representing him by what we do and what we refrain from doing.
        From a Scriptural perspective, we are obligated to those in need. However, our motives are to be sincere when fulfilling those obligations. In summation, I think our obligation only extends to those sincere and genuine in need as we are instructed to screen against exploitation.

        Further consideration:
        • Isaiah 58:10-11 if you pour yourself out for the hungry and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then shall your light rise in the darkness and your gloom be as the noonday. 11 And the Lord will guide you continually and satisfy your desire in scorched places and make your bones strong; and you shall be like a watered garden like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail.
        • 1 John 3:17 But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him?
        God bless,
        William

        Comment


          #5
          It's our 'responsibility' IF we're feeling led to do so. Our family and church would be our first priority. After That would be through your church's supporting mission agencies that They feel led to help support. Missionaries from your home church or those from churches of like belief who are led by the Holy Spirit to go to whatever geographic area they are being led to.

          People Everywhere including those 3rd world countries need to hear the Gospel unto salvation. God has not forgotten about Anyone in Any country. Rich Or poor.

          And there Are organizations that Do help those in 3rd world countries. And some countries Don't allow for missionaries to come in -- so people go in under secular designations and share the Gospel that way.

          And part of the 'deal' is that because the U.S. has been very blessed in so many ways, that 'we' should be feeding the world. Well -- governing officials of Those countries need to take responsibility for Their people's well being. Unfortunately, there's a Lot of corruption in those countries. And, yes, they Are extremely poor countries. How did they get that way. And lots of them Do gain entrance to this country. Which in turn is threatening to over-power This country.

          Being here Legally is fine -- but being here other-wise is Not. Which is an entirely different subject.

          And we Are to take care of the widows and orphans. Those who can't care for themselves and have no family to help -- church people should be helping those people.

          And, some of those 3rd world countries are also war-torn countries. And, has been previously commented on -- God has not forgotten about them.

          There are the extremes of wealth and poverty in Every country.

          Comment


            #6
            Helping people is good, it should be something that a Christian wants to do. But opening the doors to our country and letting everyone in is a disservice to our own country, and at a point we would need help and our country would become theirs the problems they were running from would be here.

            A good rule for helping people is, if you give a man a fish you feed him for a day, if you teach a man to fish you feed him for a life time.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by just_me View Post
              I just heard a comment that suggested that it is our responsibility to help those in third world countries. How far, if so do we have to go? Letting them enter our country, by any means necessary? Sending them revenue? What?
              Those things you mentioned are usually political questions with political answers. If your church has 3rd world physical outreach as a means of getting the gospel ( we are very involved in the Christmas shoe box project) and you feel led to be part of it, do so!

              but teh real issue is on a personal level and not these international things. I am convinced that teh account of teh good samaritan should lay that qiestion to rest on a one on one situation!

              Comment


                #8
                Part of my extended family live in central Michigan. There's a large presence of Muslims close by them. So there's a possible opportunity to evangelize right almost next door. One of my sister's granddaughters who just graduated from high school, got involved with another student who happened to be a black Muslim -- family had recently come over from Egypt. A Large family. The young man broke up with the grand daughter, because of the religious differences -- but not before the relationship produced a pregnancy. The young man decided it was best to enlist in the Armed Forces upon graduating and felt it best Also to Not let his family / father know about the pregnancy. The granddaughter was not far enough along to start showing before they both graduated --so their secret is safe. At least for now. Babies tend to look a Lot like the parents -- so far -- via FB -- their baby is an interesting 'blend' of both of them.

                I was chasing a rabbit -- there are large numbers of Bosnians in central Iowa where I grew up. So -- in lots of cases -- the 'foreign' mission field has been becoming 'home' missions. We can't go 'there' so 'there' is coming 'here'.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by just_me View Post
                  I just heard a comment that suggested that it is our responsibility to help those in third world countries. How far, if so do we have to go?
                  I agree with those who have said that there should be no compulsion, but that it should always be something you want to do. I'm thinking of a project that I have been attracted to which provides temporal relief and assistance to people, as well as deliver the gospel to those they help. It brings me joy to participate in such projects through my financial support. On that great day, promised in Rev 7:9, I look forward to meeting and getting to know folks I never met in this life but which will be among the great multitude through the efforts of Christian relief projects. I think the Holy Spirit lays a thing on our heart and we can say with Isaiah, here I am, send me! But under some sort of compulsion it is no good.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Sue D. View Post
                    It's our 'responsibility' IF we're feeling led to do so.
                    I just want to pick up on this one comment because it really struck me. One has to be careful that one doesn't hide behind spiritual sounding slogans. 'Feeling led' is a dangerous thing. We have a clear biblical command to minister to body and soul.

                    1 Tim 5:8 tells us that if we neglect our families we are worse then unbelievers.

                    1 John 3:17-18 tells us that we do not help the brtheren as we are able the love of God does not abide in us

                    and finally

                    Prov 21:13 is clear that if we don't help the poor, God will not help us. Consider also James 1:27

                    We are not going to get a special 'leading' of the spirit in regards to something so clearly laid out in scripture - the simple truth is 'Yes I must care for the physical needs of others, including those in third world countries to the best of my abilities and if I'm not doing that it raises serious questions about my salvation'. However the answer is not as simple as that, for one thing I cannot force my responsibility onto others, and we must remember that our governments have differing priorities to balance especially in regards to immigration - issues that are very complex, some economical, so political, for example in my country we have an increasing number of elderly people relying on state support, and a decreasing workforce (and that isn't going to change whilst English folk tend to only have two kids) the only way we can sustain a workforce that will pay the taxes to support this social care is through immigration - yet, at the same time, people cry out about 'foreigners taking our jobs' - it isn't an easy situation.



                    Comment


                    • Sue D.
                      Sue D. commented
                      Editing a comment
                      @rb -- I'm familiar with 'particular' baptists. Okay, we are 'commanded' to care for the poor -- but that's a very general 'poor' Doesn't the Holy Spirit lead us to the particular 'poor' that we're to care For? The poor here where ever 'here' is? Or the poor over There? The poor in Cambodia or Thialand? or Russia or etc....... in the New Testament -- Paul and Barnabas went to Many locations in Asia -- but the Holy Spirit guided them specifically Where to go and where Not to go. Feel free to stick to as many guns as you feel led to.

                    • reformed baptist
                      reformed baptist commented
                      Editing a comment
                      you may not that I have said as you see a need and your in a position to help you should

                    • Sue D.
                      Sue D. commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I don't mean to be complaining -- but your last line of commenting. A run-on sentence -- not following it very well.

                    #11
                    2 Cor 9:1 For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you: 2For I know the forwardness of your mind, for which I boast of you to them of Macedonia, that Achaia was ready a year ago; and your zeal hath provoked very many. 3Yet have I sent the brethren, lest our boasting of you should be in vain in this behalf; that, as I said, ye may be ready: 4Lest haply if they of Macedonia come with me, and find you unprepared, we (that we say not, ye) should be ashamed in this same confident boasting. 5Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness.
                    But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. 7Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

                    Gal 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

                    Luke 10:30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.

                    31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.

                    32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.

                    33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,

                    34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.

                    35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.

                    36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?

                    37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

                    Comment


                      #12
                      Our primary responsibility is to give the gospel to the whole world but that is no excuse for neglecting physical needs. Often when we meet the physical needs of others it will lead to opportunities to share the gospel with them as well.
                      Clyde Herrin's Blog

                      Comment


                        #13
                        • James 1:27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.
                        Like James 1:27, we have an implied duty in the positive aspect of the 6th commandment (thou shall not murder is the negative), a duty to preserve life.

                        God bless,
                        William

                        Comment


                        • islandrazor
                          islandrazor commented
                          Editing a comment
                          One of my favorite scriptures William. It's why we adopted 7 children. The church used to have anti abortion marches and ask us to march alongside. My response was always, adopt those who have no home. I see little benefit in hanging out and walking with people who believe the same way as you. Kinda like preaching to the choir eh? Put your money where your mouth is and take in those unwanted children.

                        • Sue D.
                          Sue D. commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Islandrazor -- on the other thread you said you're divorced. How did you adopt 7 kids and be divorced. Who's taking care of the kids?

                        #14
                        Sue,
                        The youngest is thirty. And thank God she takes care of herself. This was some time ago. I've grandchildren close to her age. She was an infant. The others ranged from 6 to 16.

                        Comment


                        • Sue D.
                          Sue D. commented
                          Editing a comment
                          So that happened while you were still married?

                          Isn't adoption expensive?

                          A pastor and wife we'd known years ago adopted a little girl -- the process took two years.

                          And once in a while a person hears about families who adopt young children from other countries. And years ago there was the air-lifting of lots of kids of various ages ranging from newborn to older and had them settled with U.S. families.

                          Just curious.

                        #15
                        Scripture tells us to give to all who ask, not force others to give to all who ask. Government is force, what is given through force is not charity/love.

                        Governments give tax payers money away to buy influence or expand power in other places of the world, and what is questionable is whether the tax payer derives a benefit from that spending.

                        The main role of government is to see to it own citizens not give away tax payer money to non citizens. Someone has to break his back in the hot sun or freezing cold for that money, and many times their family could really use it.

                        Comment


                        • Eric T.
                          Eric T. commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Well said, Matto.
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