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William

Poll Question: Salvation is Synergism or Monergism?

Poll Question: Salvation is Synergism or Monergism?  

24 members have voted

  1. 1. Is Salvation Synergism or Monergism?

    • Synergism
      4
    • Monergism
      20


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Monergism is derived from a combination of a prefix and a root. The prefix mono is used frequently in English to indicate that which is single or alone. The root comes from the verb “to work.” The erg of monergy comes into our language to indicate a unit of work or energy. When we put the prefix and root together, we get monergy or monergism. Monergism is something that operates by itself or works alone as the sole active party. Monergism is the opposite of synergism. Synergism shares a common root with monergism, but it has a different prefix. The prefix syn comes from a Greek word meaning “with.” Synergism is a cooperative venture, a working together of two or more parties.

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Oh how I loathe religious labels, but that's my problem. Christ is always the Good Shepherd and we are always the lost sheep that He seeks. That's my monergism label sorted.

 

Now, I once heard a preacher say words to the effect that if you don't know the day, the hour, the minute, and the second you were saved you are probably not saved.  That's legalistic claptrap in my book. Instant regeneration is possible and regularly experienced by some with whom God has been dealing. But some people are drawn to Christ over a period of time in which they have a real struggle living righteously, and like backsliding Israel in the Old Testament are dealt with by God in many ways. Sometimes they end up in prison where the soil of their heart receives the enrichment it needs to become fertile enough for God's Word to flourish and bear fruit. However, many a false conversion is the result of an emotional response in an artificial environment where the time and date is noted on a decision card, but the repentance is not genuine and under pressure the "sprout" soon withers and dies.

    

Two verses for consideration:

1Peter 4:16-18
(16)  Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
(17)  For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
(18)  And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

 

Matthew 19:23-26
(23)  Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
(24)  And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

(25)  When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
(26)  But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

 

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8 minutes ago, Placable37 said:

Oh how I loathe religious labels, but that's my problem. Christ is always the Good Shepherd and we are always the lost sheep that He seeks. That's my monergism label sorted.

 

Now, I once heard a preacher say words to the effect that if you don't know the day, the hour, the minute, and the second you were saved you are probably not saved.  That's legalistic claptrap in my book. Instant regeneration is possible and regularly experienced by some with whom God has been dealing. But some people are drawn to Christ over a period of time in which they have a real struggle living righteously, and like backsliding Israel in the Old Testament are dealt with by God in many ways. Sometimes they end up in prison where the soil of their heart receives the enrichment it needs to become fertile enough for God's Word to flourish and bear fruit. However, many a false conversion is the result of an emotional response in an artificial environment where the time and date is noted on a decision card, but the repentance is not genuine and under pressure the "sprout" soon withers and dies.

    

Two verses for consideration:

1Peter 4:16-18
(16)  Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
(17)  For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
(18)  And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

 

Matthew 19:23-26
(23)  Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
(24)  And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

(25)  When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
(26)  But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

 

Did you vote?

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1 minute ago, William said:

Did you vote?

Have voted. Yes thankyou brother William.

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2 hours ago, William said:

Monergism is derived from a combination of a prefix and a root. The prefix mono is used frequently in English to indicate that which is single or alone. The root comes from the verb “to work.” The erg of monergy comes into our language to indicate a unit of work or energy. When we put the prefix and root together, we get monergy or monergism. Monergism is something that operates by itself or works alone as the sole active party. Monergism is the opposite of synergism. Synergism shares a common root with monergism, but it has a different prefix. The prefix syn comes from a Greek word meaning “with.” Synergism is a cooperative venture, a working together of two or more parties.

William I'm still unsure about which to choose . As God is three persons in one. Let us make man in our image from the very first book . So it does seem that the three persons do play a active roll all throughout the bible with our salvation. Yes but still one God. So maybe it's Monergism but maybe it's also Synergism too. Maybe it could both . Your definition of both is very deep. So I'm really still thinking about both. 

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1 hour ago, Prim said:

William I'm still unsure about which to choose . As God is three persons in one. Let us make man in our image from the very first book . So it does seem that the three persons do play a active roll all throughout the bible with our salvation. Yes but still one God. So maybe it's Monergism but maybe it's also Synergism too. Maybe it could both . Your definition of both is very deep. So I'm really still thinking about both. 

Hi Prim, I'm thinking you might keep much the same hours as me in this hemisphere. Welcome anyway. I don't quite follow your logic when you speak of the three Persons with regard to Monergism or Synergism. That the three Persons of the Godhead are in agreement about all things is a given, but as for answering the poll the question is whether God, (all three Persons) alone prompts a person to seek salvation (Monergism), or whether a person must first want to be saved completely of their own choice before God in co-operation with this choice bestows His grace upon them (Synergism).

 

Sitting on the fence is understandable if insufficient study and thought has gone into it, or if it is a discussion that is distasteful due to confusion over semantics, but illumination does come to those who desire it, and then it should be obvious that God is the prime-mover in our salvation - without His provision for our salvation what hope have we of obtaining it? It is His good kindness that leads us to repentance.(Romans 2:4)

 

Of course the question as to why His good kindness doesn't lead everyone to repentance is problematic if we accept that God is abundantly able to make the unwilling willing. (Philippians 2:13) The problem is resolved when it we accept that God knows when His work will be to no avail, and foreknows in whom it will avail much. (Romans 8:28, 1 Peter 1:2 ) 

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6 hours ago, Prim said:

William I'm still unsure about which to choose . As God is three persons in one. Let us make man in our image from the very first book . So it does seem that the three persons do play a active roll all throughout the bible with our salvation. Yes but still one God. So maybe it's Monergism but maybe it's also Synergism too. Maybe it could both . Your definition of both is very deep. So I'm really still thinking about both. 

Hi Prim,

 

I believe I can see how you are applying the terms. You're applying Synergism as a cooperation within the Trinity. Lemme clarify, monergism states salvation is of God's works alone. Synergism says salvation is a cooperation between man and God (the works of man and God).

 

4 hours ago, Placable37 said:

Of course the question as to why His good kindness doesn't lead everyone to repentance is problematic if we accept that God is abundantly able to make the unwilling willing. (Philippians 2:13) The problem is resolved when it we accept that God knows when His work will be to no avail, and foreknows in whom it will avail much. (Romans 8:28, 1 Peter 1:2

I pretty much agreed to everything you stated until I got down to the above quoted portion. Then I saw someone having a problem with the Sovereignty of God in Salvation.

 

If you're interested you may want to look into the difference between "universal" vs "effectual" grace. And even touch upon the "outward" vs "inward" calling of God.

 

God bless,

William

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2 hours ago, Placable37 said:

Hi Prim, I'm thinking you might keep much the same hours as me in this hemisphere. Welcome anyway. I don't quite follow your logic when you speak of the three Persons with regard to Monergism or Synergism. That the three Persons of the Godhead are in agreement about all things is a given, but as for answering the poll the question is whether God, (all three Persons) alone prompts a person to seek salvation (Monergism), or whether a person must first want to be saved completely of their own choice before God in co-operation with this choice bestows His grace upon them (Synergism).

 

Sitting on the fence is understandable if insufficient study and thought has gone into it, or if it is a discussion that is distasteful due to confusion over semantics, but illumination does come to those who desire it, and then it should be obvious that God is the prime-mover in our salvation - without His provision for our salvation what hope have we of obtaining it? It is His good kindness that leads us to repentance.(Romans 2:4)

 

Of course the question as to why His good kindness doesn't lead everyone to repentance is problematic if we accept that God is abundantly able to make the unwilling willing. (Philippians 2:13) The problem is resolved when it we accept that God knows when His work will be to no avail, and foreknows in whom it will avail much. (Romans 8:28, 1 Peter 1:2

Placable37 & William . thank you for explaining some more.  The word Synergis is than being used in reference to humanity.  Meaning the ability of oneself to reach out and obtain Gods gift of salvation without God firstly drawing that person to himself. Ok my misunderstanding I thought the question were being asked of solely of Gods attributes in salvation . And yes it's some late in the great southern land. Sleeptime for me. Thank you both again.

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16 hours ago, William said:

Hi Prim,

 

I believe I can see how you are applying the terms. You're applying Synergism as a cooperation within the Trinity. Lemme clarify, monergism states salvation is of God's works alone. Synergism says salvation is a cooperation between man and God (the works of man and God).

 

I pretty much agreed to everything you stated until I got down to the above quoted portion. Then I saw someone having a problem with the Sovereignty of God in Salvation.

 

If you're interested you may want to look into the difference between "universal" vs "effectual" grace. And even touch upon the "outward" vs "inward" calling of God.

 

God bless,

William

It would be be good revision for me. Until I make time for that gotta say with regard to Philippians 2:13 methinks no point God working in anyone "to will and do His good pleasure" if He hasn't elected them, since He never wills anyone to sin against His will. Our Father in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done...

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I voted and my team is winning!

 

PS...I just learned of this term, monergism, this week.  Slow learner here.  Now sanctification is synergistic I would think.  😉  However we can only respond to the spirit (in our obedience) by the power of the Spirit so we're back to monergism again.  Hmmmmm.......

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Papa Zoom said:

I voted and my team is winning!

 

PS...I just learned of this term, monergism, this week.  Slow learner here.  Now sanctification is synergistic I would think.  😉  However we can only respond to the spirit (in our obedience) by the power of the Spirit so we're back to monergism again.  Hmmmmm.......

Good news, Papa Zoom and everyone, one aim of monergism is to produce synergism, according to Peter's "to do" list in these 11 verses...

2 Peter 1:1-11
(1)  Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
(2)  Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
(3)  According as his divine power has given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that has called us to glory and virtue:
(4)  Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these you might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
(5)  And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
(6)  And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
(7)  And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
(8)  For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that you shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
(9)  But he that lacks these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and has forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
(10)  Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if you do these things, you shall never fall:
(11)  For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
 

Edited by Placable37

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On 7/3/2018 at 4:07 PM, Papa Zoom said:

I voted and my team is winning!

 

PS...I just learned of this term, monergism, this week.  Slow learner here.  Now sanctification is synergistic I would think.  😉  However we can only respond to the spirit (in our obedience) by the power of the Spirit so we're back to monergism again.  Hmmmmm.......

In Salvation, which will you claim the glory thereby rejecting  Soli Deo Gloria?

 

Do you think God minds sharing His glory?

 

  • 1 John 4:19 We love because he first loved us.
     

God bless,

William

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William,

I appreciate your handling of this discussion, especially the choice of words for the poll.

I voted "monergism" for this reason: 

We humans, mere mortals, have no righteous "within" us at all. Our righteousness is as filthy rags and yet, as Abraham, we are declared righteous by our belief in the One True God (Monotheism). Abraham was declared righteous because he (single person) believed. Jesus said himself He came not to call the righteous but sinners (unrighteous).

My point is this: we believe individually and are declared righteous therein, singularly. Now, as God provides provision for us (synergism) thru the community of believers, we build each other up, sharpen, as it were. We, as a community of believers, must encourage (Greek: Paruxosmos) others to "love and good works" (Hebrews 10:24). Blessings, my friend.

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9 hours ago, Mlw1108 said:

I voted "monergism" for this reason: 

We humans, mere mortals, have no righteous "within" us at all. Our righteousness is as filthy rags and yet, as Abraham, we are declared righteous by our belief in the One True God (Monotheism). Abraham was declared righteous because he (single person) believed. Jesus said himself He came not to call the righteous but sinners (unrighteous). 

"The Holy Spirit makes us partakers of Jesus Christ by Faith Alone. That which we call ‘faith’ Eph. 1: 17 ; Phil 1:29  is the sole instrument by which we take hold of Jesus Christ when He is offered to us, the sole vessel to receive Him John 3:1-13, 33-36" - by Dr. Theodore Beza (1519-1605)

 

Question, do you believe regeneration precedes faith?

 

Second question, you stated "Jesus said himself He came not to call the righteous but sinners (unrighteous)."  Luke 5:32. Could you clarify a little on your reference? Who was Jesus referring to as righteous? And was he making a point that they were not in need of Him?

 

9 hours ago, Mlw1108 said:

My point is this: we believe individually and are declared righteous therein, singularly. Now, as God provides provision for us (synergism) thru the community of believers, we build each other up, sharpen, as it were. We, as a community of believers, must encourage (Greek: Paruxosmos) others to "love and good works" (Hebrews 10:24). Blessings, my friend.

Confused by your insertion of (synergism). Please clarify, do you believe there is anyone else which can be partly credited our salvation (community of believers, saints before us, Mary, etc)?

 

God bless,

William

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On 7/3/2018 at 11:53 PM, William said:

Do you think God minds sharing His glory?

Isaiah 48:9-11:

 

For my name’s sake I defer my anger, for the sake of my praise I restrain it for you, that I may not cut you off. Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have tried you in the furnace of affliction. For my own sake, for my own sake, I do it, for how should my name be profaned? My glory I will not give to another.

 

Conclusion, we believe, serve, and love a jealous God that is not willing to share His Glory!

 

Further study:

Quote

God chose his people for his glory:

He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace. (Ephesians 1:4-6, cf. vv. 12, 14, NASB)

God created us for his glory:

Bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the end of the earth, every one who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory. (Isaiah 43:6-7)

God called Israel for his glory:

You are my servant, Israel, in whom I will be glorified (Isaiah 49:3).

I made the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah cling to me, declares the Lord, that they might be for me a people, a name, a praise, and a glory. (Jeremiah 13:11)

God rescued Israel from Egypt for his glory:

Our fathers, when they were in Egypt, did not consider your wondrous works . . . but rebelled by the Sea, at the Red Sea. Yet he saved them for his name’s sake, that he might make known his mighty power. (Psalm 106:7-8)

God raised Pharaoh up to show his power and glorify his name:

For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth.” (Romans 9:17)

God defeated Pharaoh at the Red Sea to show his glory:

And I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and he will pursue them and I will get glory over Pharaoh and all his host; and the Egyptians shall know that I am the Lord . . . And the Egyptians shall know that I am the Lord, when I have gotten glory over Pharaoh, his chariots, and his horsemen. (Exodus 14:4, 18; cf. v. 17)

God spared Israel in the wilderness for the glory of his name:

I acted for the sake of my name, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the nations, in whose sight I had brought them out. (Ezekiel 20:l4)

God gave Israel victory in Canaan for the glory of his name:

Who is like your people Israel, the one nation on earth whom God went to redeem to be his people, making himself a name and doing for them great and awesome things by driving out before your people, whom you redeemed for yourself from Egypt, a nation and its gods? (2 Samuel 7:23)

God did not cast away his people for the glory of his name:

Do not be afraid; you have done all this evil. Yet do not turn aside from following the Lord . . . For the Lord will not forsake his people, for his great name’s sake. (l Samuel 12:20, 22)

God saved Jerusalem from attack for the glory of his name:

For I will defend this city to save it, for my own sake and for the sake of my servant David. (2 Kings 19:34; cf. 20:6)

God restored Israel from exile for the glory of his name:

Thus says the Lord God, It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for the sake of my holy name.. . . And I will vindicate the holiness of my great name. . . . And the nations will know that I am the Lord. (Ezekiel 36:22-23; cf. v. 32)

Jesus sought the glory of his Father in all he did:

The one who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory; but the one who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood. (John 7:l8)

Jesus told us to do good works so that God gets glory:

In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven. (Matthew 5:16; cf. 1 Peter 2:12)

Jesus warned that not seeking God’s glory makes faith impossible:

How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? (John 5:44)

Jesus said that he answers prayer that God would be glorified:

Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. (John 14:13)

Jesus endured his final hours of suffering for God’s glory:

“Now is my soul troubled. And what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour?’ But for this purpose I have come to this hour. Father, glorify your name.’ Then a voice came from heaven, ‘I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again’ (John 12:27-28).

Father, the hour has come; glorify your son that the Son may glorify you. (John 17:1; cf. 13:31-32)

God gave his Son to vindicate the glory of his righteousness:

God put [Christ] forward as a propitiation by his blood . . . to show God’s righteousness . . . It was to show his righteousness at the present time. (Romans 3:25-26)

God forgives our sins for his own sake:

I, I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake, and I will not remember your sins. (Isaiah 43:25)

For your own name’s sake, O Lord, pardon my guilt, for it is great. (Psalm 25:11)

Jesus receives us into his fellowship for the glory of God:

Welcome one another as Christ has welcomed you, for the glory of God. (Romans 15:7)

The ministry of the Holy Spirit is to glorify the Son of God:

He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. (John 16:14)

God instructs us to do everything for his glory:

So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God (l Corinthians 10:31; cf. 6:20).

God tells us to serve in a way that will glorify him:

Whoever serves, [let him do it] as one who serves by the strength which God supplies – in order that in everything God may be glorified through Jesus Christ. To him belong glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. (l Peter 4:11)

Jesus will fill us with fruits of righteousness for God’s glory:

It is my prayer that . . . [you be] filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God. (Philippians 1:9, 11)

All are under judgment for dishonoring God’s glory:

They became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images. (Romans 1:22, 23)

For all havesinned and fall short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23)

Herod is struck dead because he did not give glory to God:

Immediately an angel of the Lord struck him down, because he did not give God the glory. (Acts 12:23)

Jesus is coming again for the glory of God:

They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed. (2 Thessalonians 1:9-10)

Jesus’ ultimate aim for us is that we see and enjoy his glory:

Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. (John 17:24)

Even in wrath God’s aim is to make known the wealth of his glory:

Desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, [God] has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he prepared beforehand for glory. (Romans 9:22-23)

God’s plan is to fill the earth with the knowledge of his glory:

For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord as the waters cover the sea. (Habakkuk 2:14)

Everything that happens will redound to God’s glory:

From him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen. (Romans 11:36)

In the New Jerusalem the glory of God replaces the sun:

And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives its light, and its lamp is the Lamb (Revelation 21:23).

Source: https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/biblical-texts-to-show-gods-zeal-for-his-own-glory

 

 

Soli Deo Gloria,

William

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In replying to your reply to my reply to your reply (did I miss one?):

Question 1 "...do you believe regeneration precedes faith?"

- Yes, based upon my understanding of our origin as human beings from the Gen 2:7 record. The breath (Heb: nismat) that made our clay forms into "living souls" is also a Sixth Sense of which the other five (Sight, Smell, Sound, etc.) can be acclimated into recognizing. This wind, breath, spirit (Heb: ruach; Grk: pneumas) can in fact be sensed. Just as offspring born into our world know the presence of their mother, we too know our Creator's presence. Adam knew God's voice thru his sensory faculties (hearing). Jesus said "my sheep know my voice" (Jn 10:27). We all have a natural affection for our mothers, inspite of our age. She is our one and only Alma Mater. We love her  not because of our first love but hers. John reminds us that "We love him because He first loved us" (1 J. 4:19). The Spirit also works (Grk: energeo) in us to bring forth fruit, much fruit (Rom 7:5). Fruit to love Him as He loves us.

Question 2 "...the righteous...?".

- The grumbling Pharisees and their scribes (Lk 5:32). The sick that recognize they need a physician need Him, the Great Physician. The Pharisees were not sick in there eyes and by there standards defining sickness.

I trust this clarifies.

FYI: I am new at this forum business and rather enjoy the discussions. I wish I had time to respond in a more prompt manner. Thanks for what you do.

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