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keithlane808

The Mark of the Beast

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Firstly, let me say, there will be no pre-tribulation rapture. There is not one

scripture in the bible that proves it. As shown in revelation 11:15, the 7th trumpet

will be post-tribulation when christ comes back. This will be the time where they who are

alive and remain will be caught up. We all will see the beast come to rise up and the

mark of the beast implimented.

 

Don't be fooled by these people deceiving you into believing there will be a pre-

tribulation rapture. Not one scripture proves it. In fact, the Beast will make war with

the Saints, and overcome them. If there was a pre-tribulation rapture, and the Saints

didnt make it, why would you? It is because there is not a pre-tribulation rapture!

 

Decievers want you to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture, because they want to destroy

your faith. if you believe god will take you out of this world before the Beast rises and

the mark of the beast is implemented, you wont believe the Beast when you see him rise,

nor believe the mark of the beast, because you believed God would take you out before you

these things come to pass. Because of this, you may end up receiving the mark of the

beast.

 

Don't be deceived by the agents of the devil. They disguise themselves as Christians and

are all over the internet, especially on Christian forums. There's a good chance you

argued with one of them over scripture, thinking they are a Christian.

 

Now onto the mark of the beast...

 

 

•First thing to make clear, this all pertains to a future event that has yet to take

place. How can we know this?

 

•The first Beast that rises up is given authority for 42 months, and then Christ will

return afterwards to capture the Beast and the false Prophet and throw them in the Lake

of Fire. If this was an event that has already taken place, or started to take place in

the past, we would have seen all the events take place described below in Revelation, as

it is in a 42 month time period, and that is not the case.

 

•Some people will try and add to the text and claim the 42 months means something else...

 

•The Greek word used for forty: Strong's G5062 "tessarákonta" —forty. The KJV translates

Strong's G5062 in the following manner: forty (22x). It literally means forty(40), and

all 22 times it has been used in the Bible, it is to describe a literal number of 40.

 

•The Greek word for two: Strong's G1417 "dyo" a primary numeral; "two":—both, twain, two.

 

•We can see Revelation is speaking of literal 42 months. This should be obvious, but

there are decivers out there who will tell you otherwise.

 

Then I[a] stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea,

having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a

blasphemous name. 2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the

feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power,

his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally

wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the

beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped

the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”

 

5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given

authority to continue[c] for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy

against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It

was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was

given him over every tribe,[d] tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will

worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from

the foundation of the world.

 

•From this text, we can see this will be a period time where a one world Government will

be set in place. This is where we are heading in the near future. You can find

information about this by doing research.

 

11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb

and spoke like a dragon. 12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his

presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast,

whose deadly wound was healed. 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire

come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. 14 And he deceives those[e] who

dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast,

telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the

sword and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that

the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image

of the beast to be killed.

 

 

16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark

on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one

who has the mark or[f] the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

 

•From verse 16, we can get details of what this Mark will be. This will be a time where

not only is there a one world Government in place, but a one world currency system, as it

would logically follow.

 

•From the context, we can see that this has to be a time where there is a cashless

society. Why is that? Because if there is still cash around, when people receive the

Mark, they who have yet to get the Mark can still Buy and Sell among themselves with the

exchange of physical money.

 

•This Mark can't be speaking of something only spritual. Why is that? Because the Bible

states it will be received on the right hand OR the forehead. It will not be on both,

only one OR the other. If the forehead meant it was a spritual Mark, then there would be

no need to be the other option of only getting the Mark on the right hand. Being able to

get it only on the right hand means it contradicts the idea that getting the Mark on the

forehead means Spritually in your mind. The text would of just said they would receive a

Mark "in" their forehead, if it was Spiritual.

 

•Remember, the text is implying that some may get the Mark on their right hand, while

others may get it on their forehead. Not that it will be either all on one or the other.

This may be a case where they who don't have a right hand and will have to get it on

their forehead, or just a personal choice.

 

•Two other points to take the idea away that it is spritual are this. The text says they

will receive the mark "ON", and not "IN". To say "on the forhead", means physically on

the surface. If it was spirtual, it would say "IN" the forehead.

 

•The other point is the Greek word for "Mark" is defined as this: cháragma, khar'-ag-mah;

from the same as G5482; a scratch or etching, i.e. stamp (as a badge of servitude), or

scupltured figure (statue):—graven, mark. This will be a physical Mark.

 

•Some people like to claim that Social Security is the Mark of the Beast. Well, that is

easy to refute.

 

•First point is, this is a period of time that has clearly not happened yet, based on the

information provided above. As stated, a one world Government, currency, ruler(42

months), then the return of Christ. Also, you do not see people being killed for refusing

Social Security. This same premise can also apply to physical money, Cards, such as debit

and credit.

 

•The Mark of the Beast also cannot be the worship on Sunday Sabbath. Why is that? As I

stated above, it is a phsycial Mark you will receive either on the right hand or on the

forehead. The Sabbath worship would hold the mark to something spritiual, and as I've

noted above, it can't be spiritual.

 

•So the question is, is there anything that can fit the descriptions of the Mark of the

Beast that we know about?

 

•Yes, there is. It is the RFID Micro Chip implant that can store all your data, including

your bank account. This chip has already been implanted in people, some in their right

hand. This is not officially the Mark of the Beast yet, because the Beast has yet to rise

to power, but only a precursor leading up to the event.

 

•We have been conditioned throughout time to want more convenience in our lives. From

physical money, to physical cards, to the cards having a chip to quickly adding a radio

frequency to the cards so you can place your card(along with your hand) near a

transmitter. This is all leading up to the RFID chip.

 

"Rockefeller info on the New World Order from Aaron Russo (RFID)"

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjM3-sfnC_8

 

•Aaron Russo describes in the video how this RFID chip is the ultimate plan, to enslave

everyone with this chip, to have full control over the people. He gained this knowledge

from Nick Rockefeller, who is part of one of the families who control the world.

 

Here is wisdom. Let him who has a mind calculate the number of the wild beast, for it is

the number of mankind, and its number is six hundred sixty-six.

 

 

•This translation of this scripture comes from a Greek literal translation. It translates

Strongs G444 as "Mankind".

 

•There's a conception from translation that say it will be a number of a man, and many

people try to come up with theorys to apply 666 to a specific man.

 

•This is not absolute, and actually the literal translate shows that it is a number for

mankind. So in a new light, you can calculate 666 to be a total number for the

identification implemented in this chip of all men who receive the Mark. This means this

number could be a total sum to identify each person. Like how we have a Social Security

number, each is different, but the total number of characters is the same.

 

•This could mean 6+6+6=18(total ID sum). Not absolute, but a possible example.

 

•There is not any better known candidate for the Mark of the Beast. Since all currency

will be on this chip, literally, you cannot Buy or Sell unless you have the Mark(Chip).

It will be implanted(leaving a Mark) in either your right hand or your forehead. This

RFID chip will be part of a one world Government and currency system. This all fits

scripture perfectly without any contradiction.

 

Finally:

 

Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast

and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall

also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the

cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of

the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment

ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and

his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.

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I believe the mark of the beast in the right hand or forehead is in a person's actions (right hand) or mind (forehead). I believe it is spiritual. I believe "buy or sell" refers to the system of the devil owning everything. The corporate world is run by evil. We have corporate fascism. Not being able to buy or sell also refers to the work place harassment and job mobbing that is happening to Christians around the world to get them out of the work place. This is being performed by secret societies like the freemasons who own much of the world. They are also having Christians persecute Christians with harassment. For more information on this government and secret society worldwide harassment program see https://fightgangstalking.com/what-is-gang-stalking/.

 

I believe the first beast of Revelation is the Roman Catholic Church and the dragon is the devil.

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I have read what I thought was a plausible explanation concerning the mark. Six being the number of man it said that 666 was an age of man worshiping man. The rise of Humanism in the 15th and 16th centuries the so called enlightenment of the 18th century and the 20th and 21st centuries being the me centuries I did think it was very sound food for thought. While I know by nature we always worship the creature more than the creator the reference is to philosophical and cultural movements that are dominant in history.

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In fact, the Beast will make war with

the Saints, and overcome them. If there was a pre-tribulation rapture, and the Saints

didnt make it, why would you? It is because there is not a pre-tribulation rapture!

 

The saints whom the beast overcomes will be those who become believers after the rapture. Aside form this I agree with your post. I think the mark will be literal and that the Beast will rule for 42 months.

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All I can say is you should prayerfully read this study guide and compare it to what you believe: https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/53/t/the-beast--the-dragon-and-the-woman

God bless!

 

I've been reading that article -- long and very thought-provoking. Our salvation is Not dependent on keeping the Ten Commandments. Never has been. Our salvation IS based on Jesus Christ's death, burial and bodily resurrection. Our acknowledging our personal need For salvation and accepting that which Jesus Christ did on the cross - in our place -- for us.

 

New Testament Also says Not to judge one another on the day of the week of worship. If a person feels led to worship on Sabbath, let him, If a person feels led to worship on 1st day of the week in honor of the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ - fine. But a person's salvation does Not hinge on that.

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Firstly, let me say, there will be no pre-tribulation rapture. There is not one

scripture in the bible that proves it. As shown in revelation 11:15, the 7th trumpet

will be post-tribulation when christ comes back. This will be the time where they who are

alive and remain will be caught up. We all will see the beast come to rise up and the

mark of the beast implimented.

 

Don't be fooled by these people deceiving you into believing there will be a pre-

tribulation rapture. Not one scripture proves it. In fact, the Beast will make war with

the Saints, and overcome them. If there was a pre-tribulation rapture, and the Saints

didnt make it, why would you? It is because there is not a pre-tribulation rapture!

 

Decievers want you to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture, because they want to destroy

your faith. if you believe god will take you out of this world before the Beast rises and

the mark of the beast is implemented, you wont believe the Beast when you see him rise,

nor believe the mark of the beast, because you believed God would take you out before you

these things come to pass. Because of this, you may end up receiving the mark of the

beast.

 

Don't be deceived by the agents of the devil. They disguise themselves as Christians and

are all over the internet, especially on Christian forums. There's a good chance you

argued with one of them over scripture, thinking they are a Christian.

 

Now onto the mark of the beast...

 

 

•First thing to make clear, this all pertains to a future event that has yet to take

place. How can we know this?

 

•The first Beast that rises up is given authority for 42 months, and then Christ will

return afterwards to capture the Beast and the false Prophet and throw them in the Lake

of Fire. If this was an event that has already taken place, or started to take place in

the past, we would have seen all the events take place described below in Revelation, as

it is in a 42 month time period, and that is not the case.

 

•Some people will try and add to the text and claim the 42 months means something else...

 

•The Greek word used for forty: Strong's G5062 "tessarákonta" —forty. The KJV translates

Strong's G5062 in the following manner: forty (22x). It literally means forty(40), and

all 22 times it has been used in the Bible, it is to describe a literal number of 40.

 

•The Greek word for two: Strong's G1417 "dyo" a primary numeral; "two":—both, twain, two.

 

•We can see Revelation is speaking of literal 42 months. This should be obvious, but

there are decivers out there who will tell you otherwise.

 

Then I[a] stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea,

having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a

blasphemous name. 2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the

feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power,

his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally

wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the

beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped

the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”

 

5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given

authority to continue[c] for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy

against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It

was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was

given him over every tribe,[d] tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will

worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from

the foundation of the world.

 

•From this text, we can see this will be a period time where a one world Government will

be set in place. This is where we are heading in the near future. You can find

information about this by doing research.

 

11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb

and spoke like a dragon. 12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his

presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast,

whose deadly wound was healed. 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire

come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. 14 And he deceives those[e] who

dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast,

telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the

sword and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that

the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image

of the beast to be killed.

 

 

16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark

on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one

who has the mark or[f] the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

 

•From verse 16, we can get details of what this Mark will be. This will be a time where

not only is there a one world Government in place, but a one world currency system, as it

would logically follow.

 

•From the context, we can see that this has to be a time where there is a cashless

society. Why is that? Because if there is still cash around, when people receive the

Mark, they who have yet to get the Mark can still Buy and Sell among themselves with the

exchange of physical money.

 

•This Mark can't be speaking of something only spritual. Why is that? Because the Bible

states it will be received on the right hand OR the forehead. It will not be on both,

only one OR the other. If the forehead meant it was a spritual Mark, then there would be

no need to be the other option of only getting the Mark on the right hand. Being able to

get it only on the right hand means it contradicts the idea that getting the Mark on the

forehead means Spritually in your mind. The text would of just said they would receive a

Mark "in" their forehead, if it was Spiritual.

 

•Remember, the text is implying that some may get the Mark on their right hand, while

others may get it on their forehead. Not that it will be either all on one or the other.

This may be a case where they who don't have a right hand and will have to get it on

their forehead, or just a personal choice.

 

•Two other points to take the idea away that it is spritual are this. The text says they

will receive the mark "ON", and not "IN". To say "on the forhead", means physically on

the surface. If it was spirtual, it would say "IN" the forehead.

 

•The other point is the Greek word for "Mark" is defined as this: cháragma, khar'-ag-mah;

from the same as G5482; a scratch or etching, i.e. stamp (as a badge of servitude), or

scupltured figure (statue):—graven, mark. This will be a physical Mark.

 

•Some people like to claim that Social Security is the Mark of the Beast. Well, that is

easy to refute.

 

•First point is, this is a period of time that has clearly not happened yet, based on the

information provided above. As stated, a one world Government, currency, ruler(42

months), then the return of Christ. Also, you do not see people being killed for refusing

Social Security. This same premise can also apply to physical money, Cards, such as debit

and credit.

 

•The Mark of the Beast also cannot be the worship on Sunday Sabbath. Why is that? As I

stated above, it is a phsycial Mark you will receive either on the right hand or on the

forehead. The Sabbath worship would hold the mark to something spritiual, and as I've

noted above, it can't be spiritual.

 

•So the question is, is there anything that can fit the descriptions of the Mark of the

Beast that we know about?

 

•Yes, there is. It is the RFID Micro Chip implant that can store all your data, including

your bank account. This chip has already been implanted in people, some in their right

hand. This is not officially the Mark of the Beast yet, because the Beast has yet to rise

to power, but only a precursor leading up to the event.

 

•We have been conditioned throughout time to want more convenience in our lives. From

physical money, to physical cards, to the cards having a chip to quickly adding a radio

frequency to the cards so you can place your card(along with your hand) near a

transmitter. This is all leading up to the RFID chip.

 

"Rockefeller info on the New World Order from Aaron Russo (RFID)"

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjM3-sfnC_8

 

•Aaron Russo describes in the video how this RFID chip is the ultimate plan, to enslave

everyone with this chip, to have full control over the people. He gained this knowledge

from Nick Rockefeller, who is part of one of the families who control the world.

 

Here is wisdom. Let him who has a mind calculate the number of the wild beast, for it is

the number of mankind, and its number is six hundred sixty-six.

 

 

•This translation of this scripture comes from a Greek literal translation. It translates

Strongs G444 as "Mankind".

 

•There's a conception from translation that say it will be a number of a man, and many

people try to come up with theorys to apply 666 to a specific man.

 

•This is not absolute, and actually the literal translate shows that it is a number for

mankind. So in a new light, you can calculate 666 to be a total number for the

identification implemented in this chip of all men who receive the Mark. This means this

number could be a total sum to identify each person. Like how we have a Social Security

number, each is different, but the total number of characters is the same.

 

•This could mean 6+6+6=18(total ID sum). Not absolute, but a possible example.

 

•There is not any better known candidate for the Mark of the Beast. Since all currency

will be on this chip, literally, you cannot Buy or Sell unless you have the Mark(Chip).

It will be implanted(leaving a Mark) in either your right hand or your forehead. This

RFID chip will be part of a one world Government and currency system. This all fits

scripture perfectly without any contradiction.

 

Finally:

 

Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast

and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall

also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the

cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of

the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment

ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and

his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.

 

Welcome to the forum KiethLane.

 

You leave no room for dialogue when you start off with "there will be no pre-tribulation rapture" and "Deceivers want you to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture" However I have read the same statement from others who were Dispensational Premillennialists, Postmillennialists, and Historic Premillennialists.

 

A large number Biblical Scholars have spent their entire life studding the Millennium. There are hundreds of books written on the different views of the Millennium. I believe there is room for dialogue on the Millennium. I have studied the Millennium, I think my view point fits well within Scripture. However I am always interested in knowing what others believe. Reading other interpretation of the Millennium can confirm my understanding, or challenge me to do further study I some area I had not considered. When I completely disagree with someones on their view of the Millennium, I can still be kind and respectful keeping in mind John 13:34,35.I hope to show the love of Jesus Christ first and foremost in what I post. At least that's my goal. God bless you KiethLane

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I've been reading that article -- long and very thought-provoking. Our salvation is Not dependent on keeping the Ten Commandments. Never has been. Our salvation IS based on Jesus Christ's death, burial and bodily resurrection. Our acknowledging our personal need For salvation and accepting that which Jesus Christ did on the cross - in our place -- for us.

 

New Testament Also says Not to judge one another on the day of the week of worship. If a person feels led to worship on Sabbath, let him, If a person feels led to worship on 1st day of the week in honor of the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ - fine. But a person's salvation does Not hinge on that.

 

True our salvation is based on accepting the free gift of Jesus Christ; that is the first step. But if I accept Jesus as my Savior, and continue to willfully disobey Him, by my actions I am rejecting His power to save me. Christ says "if you love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15. Obedience is the natural consequence of truly accepting Christ's grace and salvation, giving Him supreme authority in your life. The day of the week in which we choose to worship God is not now a test, but when it becomes a law that you must obey the law of the beast over the law of God, then it will be a test for all who profess to follow Christ: "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Rev. 14:12. The day will come when the U.S. (second beast) will form an image to the Roman Catholic Church (first beast), which will result in a unification of church and state, instituting a law to worship the first beast according to his authority and power (a Sunday Law). God, in His love and mercy, is giving His warnings throughout the whole world in order to prepare those who will stand for His truth in the end times. May we all be found to desire His authority in our lives, and not the authority of this world. God bless.

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True our salvation is based on accepting the free gift of Jesus Christ; that is the first step. But if I accept Jesus as my Savior, and continue to willfully disobey Him, by my actions I am rejecting His power to save me. Christ says "if you love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15. Obedience is the natural consequence of truly accepting Christ's grace and salvation, giving Him supreme authority in your life. The day of the week in which we choose to worship God is not now a test, but when it becomes a law that you must obey the law of the beast over the law of God, then it will be a test for all who profess to follow Christ: "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Rev. 14:12. The day will come when the U.S. (second beast) will form an image to the Roman Catholic Church (first beast), which will result in a unification of church and state, instituting a law to worship the first beast according to his authority and power (a Sunday Law). God, in His love and mercy, is giving His warnings throughout the whole world in order to prepare those who will stand for His truth in the end times. May we all be found to desire His authority in our lives, and not the authority of this world. God bless.

 

I agree with some of what you say. I do not believe in the Sunday Law that will be issued which the SDA teaches. I do believe the RCC is the first beast though. Also, is the Law and the Commandments of God now, Love God and neighbor which all the other commandments were based around?

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Well I am strong believer and teacher of a pre trib rapture!

 

While there is not a verse anywhere saying that the rapture will occur pre-trib, mid-trib or post trib or any other position believers take- the Bible does make clear the purpose of the 70th week of Daniel or the Tribulation as more commonly called.

1. One purpose of the trib is to prepare the nation of Israel to receive Jesus as Messiah as prophesied many times on the OT and confirmed by Paul in Romans.

2. It is so god will pour out his wrath in unbelieving mankind!

3. Hell is never known as the wrath of god- the 70th week of Daniel is called that and the church has been promised to be spared the wrath to come! The Thessalonians passage shows we are to be delivered from the wrath.

4. YOu confuse the term saints as meaning only the body of christ which biblically it does not ! OT believers are called saints but they are not part of the body of christ. Tribulation believers are called saints and they also are not part of the body of Christ. Saints is a generic term and simply means sanctified or set apart ones. Context determines which saints are being referred to!

5. What is the last trump? YOu say it is the 7th trumpet in JOhn's revelation. But Paul wrote of the last trump at least forty years before John received that Revelation! So the two are not synonymous. there is a last trump that paul knew of and spoke of in Corinthians.

All seven feasts of Israel were shadows or types that have their fulfillment either in Jesus or in the church age or millennial kingdom. Most of the church specifically and exactly knows how six of the seven feasts are fulfilled but then says the feast of trumpets is symbolic of the rapture.

 

Teh feast of Trumps is marked by 100 trumpet blasts--90 blasts- 3 sets of three trill blasts and then one more. Teh trumpeter would take as deep a breath as he could and blow for as long as he could to mark the end of the feast! This last blast was called the tekiah gedolah and in english is also known as the "last trump" given all the other evidences that are indirect- I believe it is this trump that paul knew of and spoke of and not the 7th trump that JOhn had not even learned of yet.

 

There is an excellent free study on line that goes into good depth on this. It is simply entitled the rapture of the church by Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum.. It is free and can be found at http://www.ariel.org. click the resource word, click on come and see and then studies and it is near the end of the list.

 

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I agree with some of what you say. I do not believe in the Sunday Law that will be issued which the SDA teaches. I do believe the RCC is the first beast though. Also, is the Law and the Commandments of God now, Love God and neighbor which all the other commandments were based around?

 

Love God, and love your neighbor is the summary of the commandments (Matthew 22:40). But Jesus, in an attempt to show the rich young man what his need was, pointed him to the 10 commandments as we read in Matthew 19:16-22. The law is there to reveal where we need God's grace to help us to overcome sin. A summary of the law in no way removes the truth contained in the broader picture. In the end times the second beast will kill those who refuse to worship the first beast (Rev. 13:15). God's law says to worship God alone and have no idols or bow down to them. It comes down to obeying God or man. The choice is always ours, but sadly those who choose to worship according to the dictates of the beast power will receive the 7 plagues. We should pray that God will help us to understand this issue of worship so that we can stand for truth. God bless.

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Love God, and love your neighbor is the summary of the commandments (Matthew 22:40). But Jesus, in an attempt to show the rich young man what his need was, pointed him to the 10 commandments as we read in Matthew 19:16-22. The law is there to reveal where we need God's grace to help us to overcome sin. A summary of the law in no way removes the truth contained in the broader picture. In the end times the second beast will kill those who refuse to worship the first beast (Rev. 13:15). God's law says to worship God alone and have no idols or bow down to them. It comes down to obeying God or man. The choice is always ours, but sadly those who choose to worship according to the dictates of the beast power will receive the 7 plagues. We should pray that God will help us to understand this issue of worship so that we can stand for truth. God bless.

 

Some more good points but I think the second beast is already persecuting believers covertly (https://fightgangstalking.com/what-is-gang-stalking/).

God bless you as well.

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Love God, and love your neighbor is the summary of the commandments (Matthew 22:40). But Jesus, in an attempt to show the rich young man what his need was, pointed him to the 10 commandments as we read in Matthew 19:16-22. The law is there to reveal where we need God's grace to help us to overcome sin. A summary of the law in no way removes the truth contained in the broader picture. In the end times the second beast will kill those who refuse to worship the first beast (Rev. 13:15). God's law says to worship God alone and have no idols or bow down to them. It comes down to obeying God or man. The choice is always ours, but sadly those who choose to worship according to the dictates of the beast power will receive the 7 plagues. We should pray that God will help us to understand this issue of worship so that we can stand for truth. God bless.

 

 

 

Looking at Matthew 19:16 - 22

 

The rich young man -- "Teacher, what good thing must I do to inherit eternal life ". There is only One who is good . If you want to enter life, obey the commandments -- Which ones? the young man asked. Then Jesus listed about murder, adultery, stealing, giving false testimony , honor your father and mother, love your neighbor as yourself." The young man said he already has done those things so what does he lack. Jesus tells him, "If you want to be perfect, go sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." The result was that the young man went away sad, because he had great wealth. Jesus went on to explain to the disciples -- it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Its easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

 

And then they asked -- Who then can be saved? -- Jesus replies -- with man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible. Man can't save himself -- only through God / Jesus Christ shed blood for us.

 

The 'broader picture'? We are to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul and mind and our neighbor as ourself"

 

What it Sounds like is that the broad picture includes obeying the Ten Commandments because we love God and want to keep His commandments -- going back To the Ten Commandments.

 

And, yes, we are to worship only God and have no idols or bow down to them.

 

The Ten Commandments say to worship on the Sabbath - to keep it holy. So -- the insinuation is that Sunday worship is actually wrong. And supposedly the RCC changed worship from Sabbath to Sunday. So following the RCC -- the beast -- is what causes the problems. And since supposedly the RCC is totally responsible for changing the day of worship -- 'we' are to be true to God's commandments and worship on Sabbath.

 

Actually -- it sounds More like -- SDA's are = to God's commandments. That obeying the Ten Commandments is equal to salvation. That is works-based salvation. The cross of Christ -- His shed blood = salvation. No 'good works' on our part will save a person. Ephesians 2: 8 - 9.

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Looking at Matthew 19:16 - 22

 

The rich young man -- "Teacher, what good thing must I do to inherit eternal life ". There is only One who is good . If you want to enter life, obey the commandments -- Which ones? the young man asked. Then Jesus listed about murder, adultery, stealing, giving false testimony , honor your father and mother, love your neighbor as yourself." The young man said he already has done those things so what does he lack. Jesus tells him, "If you want to be perfect, go sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." The result was that the young man went away sad, because he had great wealth. Jesus went on to explain to the disciples -- it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Its easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

 

And then they asked -- Who then can be saved? -- Jesus replies -- with man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible. Man can't save himself -- only through God / Jesus Christ shed blood for us.

 

The 'broader picture'? We are to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul and mind and our neighbor as ourself"

 

What it Sounds like is that the broad picture includes obeying the Ten Commandments because we love God and want to keep His commandments -- going back To the Ten Commandments.

 

And, yes, we are to worship only God and have no idols or bow down to them.

 

The Ten Commandments say to worship on the Sabbath - to keep it holy. So -- the insinuation is that Sunday worship is actually wrong. And supposedly the RCC changed worship from Sabbath to Sunday. So following the RCC -- the beast -- is what causes the problems. And since supposedly the RCC is totally responsible for changing the day of worship -- 'we' are to be true to God's commandments and worship on Sabbath.

 

Actually -- it sounds More like -- SDA's are = to God's commandments. That obeying the Ten Commandments is equal to salvation. That is works-based salvation. The cross of Christ -- His shed blood = salvation. No 'good works' on our part will save a person. Ephesians 2: 8 - 9.

 

You have many great points. Do you think we should adhere to all Ten Commandments?

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Actually -- it sounds More like -- SDA's are = to God's commandments. That obeying the Ten Commandments is equal to salvation. That is works-based salvation. The cross of Christ -- His shed blood = salvation. No 'good works' on our part will save a person. Ephesians 2: 8 - 9.

 

I must correct you on this. SDAs do not believe in salvation by works, or that obeying the 10 commandments is equal to salvation. That's a misunderstanding of their doctrines. But God forbid I should bring someone to Christ and then tell them they have no need to turn from sin (Rom. 6:15), and that they can live however they please because their disobedience will do nothing to their salvation (Matt. 7:22,23). The beauty of sanctification is the power of Christ living in a person to free them from breaking the law. And God's prophecies of Revelation tell us that there will be a crisis in this world where the mark of the beast is in opposition to God's laws, and whoever adheres to the requirements of the beast will find themselves under the wrath of God because of their willful disobedience after having learned the truth. That's why Jesus says "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Matt. 24:13, and "here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus" Rev. 14:12.

 

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty." James 2:10-12. I never want to rob the gospel of its power to save us from our sin (Matt 1:21). The true gospel is justification through Christ alone and His saving power, and sanctification through His power to bring us into obedience to His will for our lives. God bless.

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I must correct you on this. SDAs do not believe in salvation by works, or that obeying the 10 commandments is equal to salvation. That's a misunderstanding of their doctrines. But God forbid I should bring someone to Christ and then tell them they have no need to turn from sin (Rom. 6:15), and that they can live however they please because their disobedience will do nothing to their salvation (Matt. 7:22,23). The beauty of sanctification is the power of Christ living in a person to free them from breaking the law. And God's prophecies of Revelation tell us that there will be a crisis in this world where the mark of the beast is in opposition to God's laws, and whoever adheres to the requirements of the beast will find themselves under the wrath of God because of their willful disobedience after having learned the truth. That's why Jesus says "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Matt. 24:13, and "here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus" Rev. 14:12.

 

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty." James 2:10-12. I never want to rob the gospel of its power to save us from our sin (Matt 1:21). The true gospel is justification through Christ alone and His saving power, and sanctification through His power to bring us into obedience to His will for our lives. God bless.

 

Some good points.

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Some good points.

 

I believe I may have veered a bit off topic though. Who do you believe the second beast of Revelation 13 is that implements the mark in the forehead or the hand?

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I believe I may have veered a bit off topic though. Who do you believe the second beast of Revelation 13 is that implements the mark in the forehead or the hand?

 

The US government (https://fightgangstalking.com/what-is-gang-stalking/).

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True our salvation is based on accepting the free gift of Jesus Christ; that is the first step. But if I accept Jesus as my Savior, and continue to willfully disobey Him, by my actions I am rejecting His power to save me. Christ says "if you love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15. Obedience is the natural consequence of truly accepting Christ's grace and salvation, giving Him supreme authority in your life. The day of the week in which we choose to worship God is not now a test, but when it becomes a law that you must obey the law of the beast over the law of God, then it will be a test for all who profess to follow Christ: "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Rev. 14:12. The day will come when the U.S. (second beast) will form an image to the Roman Catholic Church (first beast), which will result in a unification of church and state, instituting a law to worship the first beast according to his authority and power (a Sunday Law). God, in His love and mercy, is giving His warnings throughout the whole world in order to prepare those who will stand for His truth in the end times. May we all be found to desire His authority in our lives, and not the authority of this world. God bless.

 

 

 

A person who willfully disobeys Him After saying he/ she has accepted Christ as personal Savior -- I'd question the person's salvation. BECAUSE -- upon salvation, the Holy Spirit immediately indwells the person -- a person will be exhibiting the fruits Of the Holy Spirit in his /her life. If those fruits are not observable --- there is No change in attitude / actions -- then that person should be lovingly approached one-on-one privately -- with concern -- discipling new believers is very important.

 

I suspect that the 'test' will be -- do you believe in God -- do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God -- people are being persecuted / killed for taking That stand Now.

 

When a person loves the Lord God with all our heart, soul, mind and our neighbor as ourself -- we Won't want to do those things that displease God or harm our neighbor,.

 

Galatians 3:24 "So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith, Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

 

Once the Holy Spirit has indwelt a person, He won't leave. One of the jobs of the Holy Spirit is to keep the believer secure until the believer is safe with Jesus Christ. He is also the convictor of sins -- gives the person inner peace that he's never known before. So OSAS is Scriptural. It does Not give a person license To sin. It Does give a person security -- that we will Be saved -- He won't leave us or forsake us -- we won't have to worry about being good enough to keep our salvation.

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A person who willfully disobeys Him After saying he/ she has accepted Christ as personal Savior -- I'd question the person's salvation. BECAUSE -- upon salvation, the Holy Spirit immediately indwells the person -- a person will be exhibiting the fruits Of the Holy Spirit in his /her life. If those fruits are not observable --- there is No change in attitude / actions -- then that person should be lovingly approached one-on-one privately -- with concern -- discipling new believers is very important.

 

I suspect that the 'test' will be -- do you believe in God -- do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God -- people are being persecuted / killed for taking That stand Now.

 

When a person loves the Lord God with all our heart, soul, mind and our neighbor as ourself -- we Won't want to do those things that displease God or harm our neighbor,.

 

Galatians 3:24 "So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith, Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

 

Once the Holy Spirit has indwelt a person, He won't leave. One of the jobs of the Holy Spirit is to keep the believer secure until the believer is safe with Jesus Christ. He is also the convictor of sins -- gives the person inner peace that he's never known before. So OSAS is Scriptural. It does Not give a person license To sin. It Does give a person security -- that we will Be saved -- He won't leave us or forsake us -- we won't have to worry about being good enough to keep our salvation.

 

Some really good points.

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The 2nd beast of revelation is the false prophet (the lamb with horns). It stands for mystery babylon the great - the great superchruch of the tribulation as well as a religious figure. He will call for the world to receive the mark.

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The 2nd beast of revelation is the false prophet (the lamb with horns). It stands for mystery babylon the great - the great superchruch of the tribulation as well as a religious figure. He will call for the world to receive the mark.

 

I believe the first beast is the RCC which is the great super church of tribulation. The second beast gives power onto the first which I believe is the US government. Some of the SDA teachings I believe are accurate and many are not in my opinion.

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There Are belief systems that incorporate some Bible in them and make them sound credible -- but apply their own 'twist' to Scriptures -- out of context -- will take areas that really aren't known for sure and '"who is really going to question them'". Speculation somehow becomes fact , but the speculations are only speculations and are often unfounded.

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There Are belief systems that incorporate some Bible in them and make them sound credible -- but apply their own 'twist' to Scriptures -- out of context -- will take areas that really aren't known for sure and '"who is really going to question them'". Speculation somehow becomes fact , but the speculations are only speculations and are often unfounded.

 

Agreed. Some of the prophetic claims of SDA are really solid but some are off the wall and just speculation. I specify the ones I believe to be true based on my own study of the subjects.

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So OSAS is Scriptural.

 

We will have to agree to disagree. I do not believe Once Saved, Always Saved is biblical. But we all have our own ideas of what is biblical and what is not. God bless.

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