Jump to content

The Protestant Community

Welcome to Christforums the Protestant Community. You'll need to register in order to post your comments on your favorite topics and subjects. You'll also enjoy sharing media across multiple platforms. We hope you enjoy your fellowship here! God bless, Christforums' Staff
Register now

Christforums

Christforums is a Protestant Christian forum, open to Bible- believing Christians such as Presbyterians, Lutherans, Reformed, Baptists, Church of Christ members, Pentecostals, Anglicans. Methodists, Charismatics, or any other conservative, Nicene- derived Christian Church. We do not solicit cultists of any kind, including Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Eastern Lightning, Falun Gong, Unification Church, Aum Shinrikyo, Christian Scientists or any other non- Nicene, non- Biblical heresy. God bless, Christforums' Staff
Register now
Sign in to follow this  
William

Does the Doctrine of the Trinity Matter?

Recommended Posts

 

Question

 

I am told that one can not be saved without accepting the doctrine of the Trinity, yet even the most capable theological minds on the planet debate over it -- not only as regards the understanding of it, but also as to whether or not it can even be derived from Scripture! Did the repentent thief on the cross know about the doctrine of the Trinity? When traditional peoples of the Pacific Islands are converted, for example, what is their perception of the doctrine of the Trinity? What about the average Christian who would seem to have little interest in the perplexing doctrinal aspects of this teaching? How important can it be if the majority of Christians have little if any knowledge of the issues which surround it? Can they really be said to believe it if they are basically ignorant concerning the biblical justification for it, as well as the many seeming contradictions in Scripture which are associated with it? Why is this teaching regarded as a fundamental truth when even the greatest Christian scholars admit to numerous technical difficulties with regard to it?

 

Answer

 

The matter is highly complex and abstract. In fact, it took the church until A.D. 451 (at the Council of Chalecedon) to finalize its formal statements most of these things issues. Even today the Eastern Orthodox Church dissents from the Roman Catholic Church and most Protestant churches regarding the nature of the economic Trinity.

 

Let me say very clearly that I do not believe that understanding the doctrine of the Trinity (ontological or economic) is essential for salvation. In fact, I would wager that he is a rare person who understands this doctrine upon conversion.

 

Nevertheless, I do think it is very important that we as Christians understand at least that there is only one God, and that he exists in three distinct persons who are not identical with each other. I also think it's important that we understand Christ to be one person with two natures. These ideas are important because they have practical implications for:

  • The way we pray -- To whom can we pray? Is it more effective to pray to the Father than to the Son? Is there more than one God?
  • The way we worship -- Who can we name as the object(s) of our worship? What truths can we proclaim in his/their praise?
  • The way we think about our relationships with each other and with God -- In our union with Christ, are we united only to a man? Only to God? Only to a god? Can we become gods too?

Moreover, our perception of issues related to the Trinity and the hypostatic union greatly influences how we read the Bible. It affects our interpretation of many passages, and therefore it affects the applications we draw from those passages. It also affects our understanding of the Bible's (and of God's) reliability because it addresses areas of seeming contradiction. Because these issues are so fundamental to Christian life, I place great importance on them.

 

Certainly, some of the more technical aspects of these doctrines step rather speculatively on ground only safely trod by God. But there are some fundamental aspects of these doctrines with which no Christian scholar disagrees, and which are not terribly speculative -- namely the that God exists in three persons and one essence, and that Christ is one person with two natures, being fully God and fully man. I would hope to see great tolerance for those ignorant/agnostic in these areas. A lack of understanding of these doctrines deprives one of rich opportunities for growth and worship, but it does not threaten souls. However, there can be great danger in holding to misconceived ideas about these matters. For example, those who reject the deity and/or humanity of Christ cannot be saved (John 20:30-31; 1 John 2:22; 4:2-3; 2 John 7). In this regard I differentiate rather significantly between passive ignorance and active rejection.

 

I suspect that while most Christians don't think about these matters much, most also assume a great number of things that depend upon these doctrines (e.g. Jesus is a sufficient and reliable savior; it is good to pray to Jesus; baptism is to be done in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit). I also suspect that most Christians know a good deal more about these doctrines than they realize. Consider a parallel in grammar: most people who speak English can't parse a sentence and its constituent parts, but they can converse quite well. They recognize good grammar even though they can't define it.

 

Source: http://reformedanswers.org/answer.asp/file/40397

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Let me say very clearly that I do not believe that understanding the doctrine of the Trinity (ontological or economic) is essential for salvation. In fact, I would wager that he is a rare person who understands this doctrine upon conversion.

 

When the Lord first saved me I was really clueless with just about everything. Over time the Holy Spirit opens up new doors of knowledge through the Bible as to whom God really is (Triune).

I think there is a difference though (at first) between accepting the Trinity and denying it. If I was asked right after I became a Christian I would be very confused with how to answer and what passages to cite with the doctrine of the Trinity (plus almost everything else). My response would have been "I don't know" - notice though that this isn't a denial. But over time (varies from person to person) He (the Holy Spirit) will strongly confirm that God is Triune.

 

Those who reject the Trinity do not have the true God of the Bible but a "god" derived from our pernicious enemy.

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I grew up in the Bible -- the authority -- the Trinity is throughout Scripture. Without the trinity we have no salvation. As "Faber" commented -- rejecting the trinity is rejecting salvation. But understanding it is not essential For/ To a person's salvation. But , after a while, as we learn more about salvation and Bible, the more obvious the existence of the trinity Is.

 

Doctrine is Very important. We Need to know what's in God's Word. There are those who are very into Bible study / they enjoy getting into various doctrinal discussions. And there are those who have trouble studying most Anything. And then there are those like Me. I go in spirts. I have various interests in various subjects.

 

The more time we take reading/ studying / the more we Will learn. And we Will have questions as we read.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I share the gospel I do make it a point to mention the Deity of Christ. Peter did (Acts 2:21; cf. Acts 2:36; Acts 10:36) and Paul taught that one must confess that He (the Lord Jesus) is "Lord" (YHWH) in Romans 10:13.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
When I share the gospel I do make it a point to mention the Deity of Christ. Peter did (Acts 2:21; cf. Acts 2:36; Acts 10:36) and Paul taught that one must confess that He (the Lord Jesus) is "Lord" (YHWH) in Romans 10:13.

 

 

 

A person Does need to acknowledge that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. To believe it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It does not matter (the doctrine).

You can call out to God in Jesus name in all simplicity and understanding.

Accepting Christ automatically accepts the one who sent him, people should really get acquainted with his simplicity over complicated man made doctrine and vain teachings. I have nothing against trinitarians I just find most of them hard headed and having scales over their eyes.

We should be rejoicing in the good news rather than trying to understand a trinity, if it was such a big deal and necessary for salvation, then it would have been taught boldly by the apostles and even Christ himself.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We should be rejoicing in the good news rather than trying to understand a trinity, if it was such a big deal and necessary for salvation, then it would have been taught boldly by the apostles and even Christ himself.

 

It was taught boldly.

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It does not matter (the doctrine).

You can call out to God in Jesus name in all simplicity and understanding.

Accepting Christ automatically accepts the one who sent him, people should really get acquainted with his simplicity over complicated man made doctrine and vain teachings. I have nothing against trinitarians I just find most of them hard headed and having scales over their eyes.

We should be rejoicing in the good news rather than trying to understand a trinity, if it was such a big deal and necessary for salvation, then it would have been taught boldly by the apostles and even Christ himself.

 

Your first sentence -- yes.

 

The trinity makes our salvation possible. Without the trinity we don't have salvation.

 

Your comment regarding man-made doctrine and vain teachings. The Bible / God's Word IS God's Word to us.

 

The trinity = God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son, and the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ is God incarnate = Jesus Christ being the Son of God. The Holy Spirit guarantees our salvation. He comes to indwell each believer at the moment of heart belief and won't leave us until we are safe with Jesus Christ.

 

And what would you say Is the Good News.

 

Bible doctrines are the teachings in Scripture that God has given us. The more we read and study God's Word the more we learn about God and all the teachings In His Word. And spiritual growth / maturity happens. We Need to know what we believe and Why.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mary was full of the holy spirit (God) and gave birth to a fleshy man both man and devine 100% God in the suit of our flesh, he set his examples and died giving up the Holy spirit to us and when we die for him we receive that spirit to become sons of God, he was transformed into a new body and ascended back into heaven and we shall too. He had to become man, poor and limited not to use his powers to impress and live but to live as us and teach and spread his gifts of healings and give all that he could give to do thy will and die till he had nothing more to give. It is simply Jesus you call on as stated many many times in the NT to get to the Father (God) through the Holy Spirit as man, we can ALL do thia now it is the gift and the promise. Not to be in league with vain works and traditions and allowance of sin you defend by calling it works (to not sin) see the truth and repent and sin no more. God is one who became flesh and died for you to see his truth, dont believe that you can confess your sins to an earthly father and be saved, dont be fooled that obedience is works, these are lies. Repent all of you and live according to Gods will even unto death and be not discouraged for by grace he will guide you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Andrew Banks -- According to Matthew 1: 20-23 -- The Holy Spirit came upon Mary - - she will conceive and give birth to a son and name Him Immanuel which means 'God with us."

 

Yes, Jesus Christ was both fully man and fully divine -- He came to die on the cross for us -- Jesus Christ performed many miracles to point the people to God the Father. The miracles were showing the people that there was more going on than events of their every day experience.

 

Not only did He die on the cross for us -- in our place -- but He rose back from the dead -- after those 3 days He rose from the dead. After 40 days of being on this earth, He ascended back to heaven. That is recorded in Acts 1 and 2. He told the disciples that the Holy Spirit would come but only after He ascended back to heaven. The Holy Spirit could be with each believer all the time.

 

Yes, He did receive a glorified body when He was resurrected. And we , too, as born-again believers, will eventually receive the same kind of glorified body -- but not in this life time.

 

Each person, when they accept Jesus Christ as personal Savior, are given one or more spiritual gifts by the Holy Spirit to be used to build up the local church body of Christ.

 

And, yes, while here on earth as Jesus Christ , He Did perform many miracles -- He healed Many people. He didn't die because He'd used up all His power and had nothing more to give us. He died In our place,on the cross. To give us eternal life.

 

Yes, a person does call upon the name of the Lord and be saved. No 'good works' on our part are needed,. But we Do need to believe that He is the Son of God -- that He died on the cross and rose again on the 3rd day just as the Scriptures say.

 

And, you are right--no works on our part will ever get us to heaven. And we don't follow any man-made traditions -- church membership, etc. None of that earns a person a place in heaven.

 

However, we will still sin to some extent until we are in heaven.

 

And, no, we don't confess our sins to a Priest or Pope -- we pray to God though Jesus Christ. and no one else.

 

After we are God's children -- because we Do become children of God through salvation. And we Will have a desire to please God -- He has works ready for us to do AFTER salvation.

 

And, it Is by God's grace through faith that we Are saved.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Without the trinity we have no salvation.

 

I like to see a scripture to confirm this.

 

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I like to see a scripture to confirm this.

Just as in creation, each member of the Trinity is active in salvation. For example,

The Holy Spirit in the conception of Jesus: Luke 1:35

God sends his Son to save sinners: Gal 4:4-5

God's Son comes freely to save: John 10:17-18

 

Therefore, each member of the Trinity is essential and indispensable in salvation.

 

Edit: I wanted to add that since the return of Christ to heaven, the Holy Spirit is very active in convicting of sin, regeneration and counseling/comforting God's redeemed.

Edited by Eric T.
Add material.
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question

 

I am told that one can not be saved without accepting the doctrine of the Trinity,

 

There were a number of people who lived and died before Jesus was born.

So.........

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Abraham believed God, so, he was saved by faith.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

 

But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness . . . . Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised. . . . Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all (Romans 4:1–5, 9–10,16)

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Abraham believed God, so, he was saved by faith.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

 

He did not believe in a Trinity, as I guessed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, seems that way.

But my guess is that the Trinity has always been there.

Also in Old Testament times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes, seems that way.

But my guess is that the Trinity has always been there.

Also in Old Testament times.

 

Sure, I agree that this new doctrine of the Trinity helps clarify what Old Testament writers might have experienced.

But I argue it's not the correct hammer to smack people with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol, yes, I agree.

 

But I think that was not the purpose of the other poster.... (Sue D.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Correct, Eric.

And Jesus is all three of them.

 

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

John 14:26 ESV

 

Jesus clearly says that the Father and the Holy Spirit are separate persons from him.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And Jesus is all three of them.

This sounds like Modalism to me. Do you hold that view?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

The term ‘Trinity,’ is not a biblical term.

It’s a theological description for something that is beyond human comprehension.

The Lord said, “Behold, O Israel, the Lord thy God is one, and beside him there is no other.”

When God got ready to make a man that looked like him, he didn’t make three.

He made one man. However, that one man had three parts.

He was body, soul, and spirit.

We have one God, but he is Father in creation, Son in redemption, and Holy Spirit in regeneration.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We have one God, but he is Father in creation, Son in redemption, and Holy Spirit in regeneration.

 

What you have above is the heresy of Modalism.

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What you have above is the heresy of Modalism.

 

Easy to post this.

Now, back it up with scripture.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Easy to post this.

Now, back it up with scripture.

It has been backed up by previous posts. If you are interested in why the doctrine of the Trinity is an essential, non-optional doctrine for the Christian faith, there is plenty of evidence. There are also many here who will help to explain it. However, if you have already decided that you don't accept it, you should stop arguing about it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×