Jump to content

The Protestant Community

Welcome to Christforums the Protestant Community. You'll need to register in order to post your comments on your favorite topics and subjects. You'll also enjoy sharing media across multiple platforms. We hope you enjoy your fellowship here! God bless, Christforums' Staff
Register now

Christforums

Christforums is a Protestant Christian forum, open to Bible- believing Christians such as Presbyterians, Lutherans, Reformed, Baptists, Church of Christ members, Pentecostals, Anglicans. Methodists, Charismatics, or any other conservative, Nicene- derived Christian Church. We do not solicit cultists of any kind, including Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Eastern Lightning, Falun Gong, Unification Church, Aum Shinrikyo, Christian Scientists or any other non- Nicene, non- Biblical heresy. God bless, Christforums' Staff
Register now
Sign in to follow this  
David Lee

Could Hitler, Stalin, and/or Pol Pot Be Saved?

Recommended Posts

Making Christ Attractive in a Pagan World (though it's interesting, if you'd prefer to not read it all, the Konishi illustration ... that I'm pointing to as the answer to my title question ... begins at paragraph #5* below)

 

We do think about our country on a day like today, and rightly we should. We have a generation of young people today who really don’t understand how we got to where we are in terms of what we enjoy in this country and many countries like it. Teaching of American history has been systematically removed from schools for decades now so that they don’t have any sense of the history of this country. But there were some devastating prices paid to bring this country to the place it is now, where so many people have so little appreciation for it. But it’s not just what Americans suffered, it’s what went on all over the world.

 

If you go back to the time that I was born, I was born the very year that Hitler ascended to power; and that launched World War II. Over the next five years about 80 million people were killed, 80 million. In a five-year period, that would be like the disappearance of the twenty-five or thirty largest cities in the United States combined – massive amount of humanity.

 

On the Pacific front in World War II, America engaged in war with Japan, as you remember. There were about half a million Americans that gave their lives there after being attacked at Pearl Harbor; and they took the live of 2 million Japanese. Around the world this massive, massive death was beyond comprehension. About 55 million of the people who died were civilians; about 25 million of them were military. Literally, close to five percent of the world’s population was slaughtered.

 

In World War II there were about 5 million people who were taken prisoner and placed in POW camps – prisoner of war camps – or what we’ll call concentration camps. The Japanese ran many concentration camps in the Pacific where they captured Americans and held them. Some of you who have read the story of Louie Zamperini, a good friend of mine and our family through the years, and his story of being in a Japanese concentration camp. Some of you may remember Herb and Ruth Clingen who were a part of our church and members of our staff who were trapped in a concentration camp during World War II. These were horrific experiences for many people.

 

*During World War II there was one particular camp that was under the command of a Japanese officer by the name of Konishi. Konishi had a reputation of being ruthless, and brutal, and a torturer, and essentially a murderer. His objective was essentially to take the life of all who were under his command. He did a number of things to bring about the death of those in the camp. One of the things that he did was to starve people for days and weeks until they were so ravishing in their hunger that they would eat anything, and then serve them rice in the shell. The shells were razer-sharp, and when in their starving conditions with no tools to shell the rice, they went ahead and ate it. It was a death sentence as it, with its razer-sharp edges, sliced and diced their organs open.

 

Prisoners were killed by Konishi other ways, and he set a day in which he decided that he would kill all the rest of the remaining prisoners in the camp. That day was February 24, 1945, the very end of World War II. On that day, February 24, 1945, he had determined he would wipe out the remaining prisoners. What he didn’t expect was the American troops to arrive on that very same day under the command of General Douglas MacArthur. They liberated that camp on February 24th that day. All the lives of the remaining prisoners were spared, and Konishi escaped with his life, and disappeared into who knows where.

 

For years the search was made to find him, because he was to be tried and executed for the war crimes that he committed. Eventually he was found. He was found as a gardener in a golf club in Manilla, in the Philippines. He was captured, he was arrested, he was tried, and he was hanged for war crimes. Before his execution, however, he made a statement. And here was his statement: “I believe in and I love the Lord Jesus Christ.” And they said to him, “How did you come to know Christ?” He said he had been deeply affected by the testimony of the Christians he had persecuted. It was the testimony of those Christians in the direst, most horrific possible circumstances that the Lord used to bring him to himself. For him, his hanging was simply his doorway into heaven.

 

I don’t know if you imagine that you could live like that in that condition, to make that kind of impact. You can understand the hatred that Konishi had, hatred for American in particular who basically were at war with his people, and killing so many of them. But that hatred was overpowered by the testimony of Christians, and it led him to Christ.

 

How can this happen? How is it that we could be so used, even in those kinds of circumstances, to bring someone who was an outright enemy and hater to Christ? And, by the way, this is why we’re in the world is to bring people to Christ under any circumstance. That’s what we’re here for. But the question is, “How can that happen? How can we so live and so speak to make Christ so attractive, that even though we be deadly enemies, there’s an openheartedness to the message we preach?”

 

The answer to that question comes, I think, in the text that I read earlier. Open your Bible to 1 Peter chapter 2, 1 Peter chapter 2. And I want to just begin in verse 4, and go down to verse 12.

 

The entire sermon is excellent. To finish reading and/or listening to Dr. MacArthur's sermon, please go here.

 

--David

 

[ATTACH=JSON]{"alt":"Click image for larger version Name:\tquote-if-sinners-be-damned-at-least-let-them-leap-to-hell-over-our-bodies-if-they-will-perish-charles-spurgeon-54-48-38.jpg Views:\t2 Size:\t63.3 KB ID:\t51252","data-align":"none","data-attachmentid":"51252","data-size":"full","title":"quote-if-sinners-be-damned-at-least-let-them-leap-to-hell-over-our-bodies-if-they-will-perish-charles-spurgeon-54-48-38.jpg"}[/ATTACH]

 

Edited by David Lee
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We don't come to Christ due to human empathy there is no scripture for it.

Our senses are for contacting this earthy realm and are not meant to lead us.

Whether he was saved or not - can't say but God's children even in their fallen state are not murders.

The Apostle Paul before his conversion was heading in the wrong direction but his desire was right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We don't come to Christ due to human empathy there is no scripture for it.

 

Hi 2404, we do come by "hearing" however, all of us do, in fact .. Romans 10:17 cf John 5:24 and it sounds like that's exactly what happened in the case of the Japanese tyrant, Konishi.

 

You continue:

 

Whether he was saved or not - can't say but God's children even in their fallen state are not murders.

The Apostle Paul before his conversion was heading in the wrong direction but his desire was right.

 

I'm confused. Do you consider murder to be an unpardonable sin? And if so, why do you believe that?

 

Thanks!

 

Yours and His,

David

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello David

Unbelief - blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is the unpardonable sin.

Yes we come by hearing but there has to be good ground to receive it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hello David

Unbelief - blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is the unpardonable sin.

Yes we come by hearing but there has to be good ground to receive it.

 

Hi again 2404, you believe that unbelief = blasphemy? Isn't blasphemy something that someone does, not something that they don't do?

 

Also, what is the "good ground" you speak of in the second half of your reply above? And how does it affect people's ability to come to faith in Christ?

 

Thanks again!

 

--David

Edited by David Lee
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is to reject Him and call Him an unclean thing. The believer can not do this because Christ indwells him and Christ cannot reject Himself.

Good ground: As the parable says, good ground is a person who is able to receive the Word and let Him have preeminence.

God bless.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is to reject Him and call Him an unclean thing. The believer can not do this because Christ indwells him and Christ cannot reject Himself.

Good ground: As the parable says, good ground is a person who is able to receive the Word and let Him have preeminence.

God bless.

 

Hi 2404, the Biblical definition of the unpardonable sin is a little different than that, but that will do, and I agree with you that believers cannot commit that sin.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you (I don't think?) on the "good ground" concept, but why do you believe the ground is good with some, and not good at all with others? IOW, what made it possible for you to believe, while many of your neighbors, friends and/or family members never will?

 

Thanks!

 

Yours and His,

David

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The situation here is that we think that some people -- the things they do are beyond forgiveness. That leader was purposely putting people in the most horrible conditions he could think to end their lives and, yet, the Christians he came into contact with were 'showing' him Christ in the way they were dying and in their conversation. And the result was that outwardly horrible man came to Christ. I've heard people say that "'if 'he' ends up in heaven, I don't want to share heaven with 'him'". Maybe 'we' need to be careful of Our attitudes. What kind of anger / hatred are harboring in our hearts.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent points/admonishment, and great advice. Thanks Sue :RpS_thumbup:

 

As the Bible says, we should never lose heart in doing good .. Galatians 6:9-10; Matthew 5:16; Matthew 7:12.

 

--David

Galatians 6

9 Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary.

10 So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could they be in heaven? Yes, God's mercy is infinite.

Are they heaven? Since they would have to repent, understand how wrong they were, and embrace God before death it seems unlikely.

 

For example, Hitler's last act was suicide, self-murder, to escape capture and facing the consequences of his actions. Pol Pot is another suspected suicide (possibly murder or heart failure, accounts differ). Stalin's death of a stroke did not occur in a situation where he embraced God: one witness said his expression before death was "mad or angry". In the case of an unrepentant killer who goes out cursing God and causing as much pain as he can, I suspect God understands why people say that person should not be in heaven, at least by the rules laid down in the Bible.

 

Believers in Universal Salvation would disagree, of course, and say they are certainly in heaven.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless these men repented and asked God the become a believer is Jesus Christ before they died Hebrews 9:27 says it all.

 

 

500 oh yes!

 

justme

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×