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theophilus

Only Mass Deportation Can Save America

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In the matter of immigration, mark this conservative columnist down as strongly pro-deportation. The United States has too many people who don’t work hard, don’t believe in God, don’t contribute much to society and don’t appreciate the greatness of the American system.

 

They need to return whence they came.

 

I speak of Americans whose families have been in this country for a few generations. Complacent, entitled and often shockingly ignorant on basic points of American law and history, they are the stagnant pool in which our national prospects risk drowning.

 

On point after point, America’s nonimmigrants are failing our country. Crime? A study by the Cato Institute notes that nonimmigrants are incarcerated at nearly twice the rate of illegal immigrants, and at more than three times the rate of legal ones.

 

Educational achievement? Just 17 percent of the finalists in the 2016 Intel Science Talent Search — often called the “Junior Nobel Prize” — were the children of United States-born parents. At the Rochester Institute of Technology, just 9.5 percent of graduate students in electrical engineering were nonimmigrants.

Religious piety — especially of the Christian variety? More illegal immigrants identify as Christian (83 percent) than do Americans (70.6 percent), a fact right-wing immigration restrictionists might ponder as they bemoan declines in church attendance.

 

Business creation? Nonimmigrants start businesses at half the rate of immigrants, and accounted for fewer than half the companies started in Silicon Valley between 1995 and 2005. Overall, the share of nonimmigrant entrepreneurs fell by more than 10 percentage points between 1995 and 2008, according to a Harvard Business Review study.

 

Nor does the case against nonimmigrants end there. The rate of out-of-wedlock births for United States-born mothers exceeds the rate for foreign-born moms, 42 percent to 33 percent. The rate of delinquency and criminality among nonimmigrant teens considerably exceeds that of their immigrant peers. A recent report by the Sentencing Project also finds evidence that the fewer immigrants there are in a neighborhood, the likelier it is to be unsafe.

And then there’s the all-important issue of demographics. The race for the future is ultimately a race for people — healthy, working-age, fertile people — and our nonimmigrants fail us here, too. “The increase in the overall number of U.S. births, from 3.74 million in 1970 to 4.0 million in 2014, is due entirely to births to foreign-born mothers,” reports the Pew Research Center. Without these immigrant moms, the United States would be faced with the same demographic death spiral that now confronts Japan.

 

Bottom line: So-called real Americans are screwing up America. Maybe they should leave, so that we can replace them with new and better ones: newcomers who are more appreciative of what the United States has to offer, more ambitious for themselves and their children, and more willing to sacrifice for the future. In other words, just the kind of people we used to be — when “we” had just come off the boat.

 

O.K., so I’m jesting about deporting “real Americans” en masse. (Who would take them in, anyway?) But then the threat of mass deportations has been no joke with this administration.

On Thursday, the Department of Homeland Security seemed prepared to extend an Obama administration program known as Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, or DACA, which allows the children of illegal immigrants — some 800,000 people in all — to continue to study and work in the United States. The decision would have reversed one of Donald Trump’s ugly campaign threats to deport these kids, whose only crime was to have been brought to the United States by their parents.

 

Yet the administration is still committed to deporting their parents, and on Friday the D.H.S. announced that even DACA remains under review — another cruel twist for young immigrants wondering if they’ll be sent back to “home” countries they hardly ever knew, and whose language they might barely even speak.

Beyond the inhumanity of toying with people’s lives this way, there’s also the shortsightedness of it. We do not usually find happiness by driving away those who would love us. Businesses do not often prosper by firing their better employees and discouraging job applications. So how does America become great again by berating and evicting its most energetic, enterprising, law-abiding, job-creating, idea-generating, self-multiplying and God-fearing people?

 

Because I’m the child of immigrants and grew up abroad, I have always thought of the United States as a country that belongs first to its newcomers — the people who strain hardest to become a part of it because they realize that it’s precious; and who do the most to remake it so that our ideas, and our appeal, may stay fresh.

 

That used to be a cliché, but in the Age of Trump it needs to be explained all over again. We’re a country of immigrants — by and for them, too. Americans who don’t get it should get out.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/16/opinion/only-mass-deportation-can-save-america.html

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That which has surprised me is that the concept of defunding the Cities of Refuge in the U.S. -- areas that house the illegals -- is being challenged. I live about an hour from one of those cities. The business owners are bucking it. Guess that shouldn't be surprising, though. If the illegals are booted out, there goes their 'free' labor. And, of course, the illegals don't want to leave.

 

Mass deportation would create havoc. I'd be in favor of what every other country does with those in their countries illegally. Especially those who were committing crimes. Rapes, murder, drugs, cartels. The problem with the U.S. is that we're far too lenient. But mass deportation isn't really necessary. Just round up those who are actively breaking the law. Get them arrested and in jail and then deport them to other jails. Out of this country.

 

Yes, the U.S. is a country of immigrants -- legal ones.

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Doesn't being born in America make somebody an American? If it doesn't, it is difficult to know what other country would regard them as its citizens. So where are you going to deport them to?

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Doesn't being born in America make somebody an American? If it doesn't, it is difficult to know what other country would regard them as its citizens. So where are you going to deport them to?

 

The people I feel sorriest for are those who came here as babies - by well-intentioned parents. People who wanted a fresh , free place for their family. And maybe they were lied to by whomever helped them get here. And there were women who were paid to come to this country to have their babies simply because being born here would garantee citizenship. Free access to all sorts of assistance. And maybe they've been hard-working law-abiding people ever since being here. Doesn't make a lot of sense to turn them back. If they are willing to work hard for their citizen ship. Not just sluff it off. Then help them earn it.

 

It's those who've come here and broken laws. They are criminals. And That is a Good question -- Where are going to be deported To. If We go to another country and commit a crime -- what happens to Us. We spend time in Their jails/ prisons. And That probably won't be a pleasant situation. Maybe We should take some lessons from them. Jail /prison should Not be a pleasant environment. It Should be a place to Avoid.

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Sometimes it is hard to see the differences in those who are legal and illegal with all this protesting for rights and higher wages. Most of the rights these people are fighting for are rights that legal American's all ready have, but if your in the United States illegally you don't deserve anything, nor have the right to protest or vote. If you don't like the rules of our country then go home. Most American's accept and follow the rules and those that don't are held accountable for their actions.

I agree with Sue D., to a point about those who came here as babies by parents looking for a better life. But most have know they were illegal and most could have applied for citizenship. But now we see how they brag about getting free education, housing, food stamps, healthcare, and still want more free things at the american citizens expense. We are broke as a nation after trying for years to help others without getting any help back. I don't see how we can afford to keep piling in more people who don't love this country and what we stand for. Maybe somehow we will come to peaceful agreements and survive this war of mixed feelings and illegal actions.

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Doesn't being born in America make somebody an American? If it doesn't, it is difficult to know what other country would regard them as its citizens. So where are you going to deport them to?

 

You have a point. But this truth comes with a price. Let us imagine, if the person who was born in America does not follow the law of America and begins to create trouble in the American soil, what are we going to do with them. Since America is a welcoming country, every year hundreds of thousand people migrate to America. What if their children becomes Anti-American?

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You have a point. But this truth comes with a price. Let us imagine, if the person who was born in America does not follow the law of America and begins to create trouble in the American soil, what are we going to do with them. Since America is a welcoming country, every year hundreds of thousand people migrate to America. What if their children becomes Anti-American?

 

Your logic can be applied to everyone that was born in the US regardless of their race, i can understand that the rules are quite lenient and should be more enforced on people that don't work nor contribute to the development and economy of the country.

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Doesn't being born in America make somebody an American? If it doesn't, it is difficult to know what other country would regard them as its citizens. So where are you going to deport them to?

 

Yes, it does. Well -- they are automatically citizens -- not automatically Americans -- if That makes sense. But there Have been women coming to this county who are pregnant to give birth in this country. Even though the parent isn't a citizen, they are assured that giving birth Here -- enables them to receive American benefits. So the mother has the option of giving the baby up for adoption Here or working for citizenship so she can keep her baby. Or remaining Illegal. And I don't think the U.S. will separate the mother and child.

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Doesn't being born in America make somebody an American? If it doesn't, it is difficult to know what other country would regard them as its citizens. So where are you going to deport them to?

 

If a woman pops out a child here that should not give the child US citizenship. It makes no legal sense. It is just another form of illegal immigration.

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If a woman pops out a child here that should not give the child US citizenship. It makes no legal sense. It is just another form of illegal immigration.
I would agree with that. I think it is mainly the US that gives citizenship to those born there, and most other countries have children inherit it from their parents. Otherwise it encourages people to come to the country and have a child just so their minor child (or the child's lawyer) can sponsor their citizenship. It can also result in tourists having to go through a long process to remove US citizenship from their child, unless they really want to deal with the issues of dual citizenship.

 

I did look at an article about this, and it is interesting that the writer objects to deportations on the grounds the deported immigrants have committed no offenses, then states that they were deported for overstaying visas or reentering the country illegally. I thought those were offenses?

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Hi I am fairly new here but not new to Christ. Immigration is a huge problem here and in the world. It will bring about positive I D. of citizenship. Time may shorter than we think. We should not be blind sided but know who we are serving.

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Well I am truly astonished, I was always told that The USA was a land of tolerance and freedom, it seems that as time has passed that has changed.

 

How exactly can we expect to be called Christians and people know that that means we follow Christ, if we actually believe that deporting great swathes of God's children for what ever reason is the 'only way' any country can be saved?

 

And in truth who cares about the salvation of a 'country' ( any country) any way? When Jesus returns there will be no more nationalities or religions or anything else we men have constructed to exclude other people from whatever it is we are trying to protect for our own benefits.

 

As Christians we are called to be like Christ, and he chose to be itinerant, unmarried, and kept company with all of the down trodden and outcast of his society. Where do you suppose Jesus would be found if He were walking the eart today? Probably among those very people that would be on that list of mass deportees!

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Well I am truly astonished, I was always told that The USA was a land of tolerance and freedom, it seems that as time has passed that has changed.

 

How exactly can we expect to be called Christians and people know that that means we follow Christ, if we actually believe that deporting great swathes of God's children for what ever reason is the 'only way' any country can be saved?

 

And in truth who cares about the salvation of a 'country' ( any country) any way? When Jesus returns there will be no more nationalities or religions or anything else we men have constructed to exclude other people from whatever it is we are trying to protect for our own benefits.

 

As Christians we are called to be like Christ, and he chose to be itinerant, unmarried, and kept company with all of the down trodden and outcast of his society. Where do you suppose Jesus would be found if He were walking the eart today? Probably among those very people that would be on that list of mass deportees!

 

 

 

There's such a thing as 'tolerating' Too much. People are to be in this -- or Any country Legally. It's not whether a person is a child of God or not -- are they obeying the laws of this country.

 

Well -- what about God's requirements to get into heaven? You do it His way or you won't be there. He doesn't let just anyone into heaven.

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There's such a thing as 'tolerating' Too much. People are to be in this -- or Any country Legally. It's not whether a person is a child of God or not -- are they obeying the laws of this country.

 

Well -- what about God's requirements to get into heaven? You do it His way or you won't be there. He doesn't let just anyone into heaven.

 

Sue I am not sure that is what this topic is about. But perhaps I have misunderstood. The title is that mass deportation is the only way to save the USA ( I have paraphrased). So what I am concerned about is why the legalities are relevant at all to the salvation of the Country, which in my understanding is a nonsense in any case as countries do not have personality or a soul or whatever to 'save' in any case.

 

If you are discussing legalities then you ae in the realm of politics not salvation and while one informs the other, they ae not synonymous.

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The title is that mass deportation is the only way to save the USA

If you read the whole article carefully you will find that the author isn't advocating literal deportation.

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If you read the whole article carefully you will find that the author isn't advocating literal deportation.

 

Oh I recognise that the author of the quotedarticle at the start of this thread stated that the thought of deporting thousands was in jest, however some of the responses within this thread have left me wondering whether I have stumbled into a rightwing fascist convention rather than a group of Christians.

 

Perhaps the problem lies with me, I must have higher expectations than I should have. Odd really, because it was almost exactly this sort of intollerance that made me give up Christian Forums previously.

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Referring to the original article --- this country , U.S.A -- 'belongs' to those who are it's Legalized citizens. Everyone in this country came from other countries -- except those original Indians tribes. This country Was stronger when Everyone who came here were here supporting This country.

 

"In God we trust" -- added to our coinage a Long time ago -- was the strength of this country.

 

Being "Christian" should Not mean tolerating everything that non-Christians can dream up to do. While Jesus Christ was here -- he did Not 'tolerate' sin -- He acknowledged our weakness as people -- Healing -- admonishing and telling people to go and sin no more. The woman 'caught' in the 'act of adultery' -- and who was there 'catching' her? Jesus asked that those who had never sinned to 'throw the first stone' -- no one did -- He told her to go and stop doing that. Chances are that during her life-time she probably would commit some other sin -- no one is sinless.

 

Jesus Christ Challenged sinners -- threw the money changers out of the temple.

 

As for the deportation -- why Should people be allowed to be in Any country illegally? What would happen if someone tried to enter Other countries illegally?! No one would want to be 'in their shoes'. It would NOT be a pleasant experience. Why should it be 'tolerated' in This country.

 

As for those who entered this country by means of their parents as babies, they ceased being babies a Long time ago. And, probably in the process of growing up, they became aware of their status / their parents' status. They Could be encouraging their parents to Become citizens. As adults they are responsible to become citizens. So they are doing all these 'good things', are they Actively in process of acquiring citizenship? They Need to be in order to be here in the first place. And they Should be on probationary status -- Any crime committed by them - no matter How trivial -- would penalize them in some negative way. The loss of Any support from This government.

 

One more thought -- there are lots of people who would like to help those wanting to learn / improve their English skills -- they Should be allowed to use the Bible as a teaching tool. The Should be allowed to share the Gospel unto salvation with them -- evangelistic tool.

 

People coming from other religious belief systems to this country -- it's human nature to want to share with others those beliefs that are important to us. The freedom to practice our beliefs. But within the legal boundaries of our laws. People coming from countries that require family to stay within their belief system or Else -- promoting the 'kill the infidel " are NOT wanted / needed in this country. People coming to get away from that -- okay. But, please -- be willing to Americanize. Help make This country strong. Do Not help tear in Down.

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Sue you do realize that Jesus is a Jew and not a Christian don't you?

 

And I thought that the reason why the USA grew so quickly through the 18th and 19th centuries was because of its religious tolerance. That is why so many persecuted Christian sects left Europe and travelled to America.

 

I wonder what happened to that tolerance as you moved through the 20th century and into the 21st?

 

I do not hear anyone here saying you need to change your religion to that of your immigrants, legal or otherwise, so why are you suggesting they should change to accept yours? Particularly when there are so many versions of Christianity in the USA - it must be very confusing. Or are you perhaps suggesting they adopt the underlying religion of capitalism?

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There is a huge difference between allowing refugees and immigrants come into the country than allowing militants to come in, or ones that have no interest in upholding the laws of this land. We have been a nation where all kinds of people could come here , legally and welcomed, and these people came here because this was (and still is) the most free country in the world, and they came to be part of this country, and live a free life here.

What we are trying to deal with now is a totally different situation, and it actually has little to do with religion of any kind, and more to do with defending our country from invaders. The people who come here from other countries, including Central America and Mexico, are not coming here to assimilate our freedom and American culture, they want to take this country and make it part of Mexico, and the ones coming from the Islamic countries are not refugees with women and children, they are groups of young strong militant men.

 

It is one thing to have religious tolerance for people of other cultures, and a totally different thing to allow them to come in and stop us from having the freedom to worship as we choose. An example would be if someone comes to your house and needs food, and you feed them. However, if that person breaks into your house in the middle of the night and holds your children at gunpoint, you do not happily offer them to have dinner with you.

It is a whole different thing when someone comes to take over than when they come for help.

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And you get all of this data on the immigrants into the USA from where exactly? Only to date I have not heard any news of any radical Islamic terrorists in the USA. France, yes; Germany, yes; UK, yes; USA, hmmmm no, not yet, perhaps it is not the immigrants that are the issue.

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Only to date I have not heard any news of any radical Islamic terrorists in the USA.

 

There have been ten terrorist attacks after 911 in America.

 

And I think some people are confusing immigrants with illegal immigrants and then some refugees. The discussion will go nowhere as long as these distinctions are not made. Illegal immigrants by its very definition are law breakers.

 

America is a nation of laws. Ideally, such freedoms protected under the Constitution apply to those rights which are endowed by their Creator. The question that should be asked is exactly to who does Constitutional rights apply to? While citizens are protected under the rights of the Constitution, it becomes somewhat blurred when applied to residence which did not legally migrate here. Though they may share some of the protections, they are subject to other laws such as immigration laws and its requirements.

 

In my opinion, I see no one arguing to give back California to Mexico to be governed by them. Legal immigrants or just plain immigrants come here because of our laws and all its protections. I don't see people jumping fences to patronize to Mexico.

 

Regarding Refugees, it is not against the Conservative position to allow them over, but it is the Conservative position to have a controlled vetting of those flooding in from a war zone. We are at war people, and I think it goes against common sense to not know exactly who is coming across the border in the middle of a war.

 

God bless,

William

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You are right William, and of those ten attacks, how many were foriegn nationals, i.e. Not already American citizens?

 

And the point you make about illegal imigrants is correct, but I am struggling to see how deporting illegal imigrants will have any affect on 'saving' America. But then I live in the UK so I guess I don't understand your unique problems.

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You are right William, and of those ten attacks, how many were foriegn nationals, i.e. Not already American citizens?

 

As far as I am aware, excluding 911 there are none, those that were attempted by non nationals were foiled. I think the number is around three attempts here in the U.S. by which non nationals tried to commit an act of terrorism on U.S. soil. Does a foiled attempt work for or against our statistics?

 

Given the thousands of lives lost for the ideology of ISIS, lemme ask you directly, do you think having any vetting process in order to slow or stop ISIS recruitment is warranted? I ask this question, because I think we are failing to address ISIS from an ideological front. I suspect that silencing the Church has worked towards the advantage of our enemies on the ideological battle fronts.

 

Take for example what you're suggesting. I for one side with you in that we should push ourselves in the great commission reaching out to refugees. But under Obama and the liberal powers to be even proclaiming the Gospel in refugee camps was halted and deemed intolerance.

 

As far as the great commission goes, I have no problem with supporting missions to high risk areas. My main issue is with bringing people here and making our backyards high risk areas. It is one thing for me to go to a high risk area where my life may be in jeopardy, it is quite another for me to jeopardize your children's life for my religious cause. How can I even state with a straight face that your children are not in jeopardy when I know nothing about the people coming over?

 

But then I live in the UK so I guess I don't understand your unique problems.

 

This is nothing new, America's forefathers wrote that Islam is incompatible with the West. https://www.christforums.org/forum/g...mic-terrorists

 

Now I realize that "progressives" suggest that we have moved on, but really, what has changed between Islam and "infidels"? What has made us better equipped to deal with Islam as a nation? I think we are actually less equipped today than we were back then, at least back then Christian ideology was just about inseparable from our culture, whereas today, I believe it is being replaced. At least, Conservatives here are pushing back, now that may look like intolerance, but I think our Christian identity as a nation is in jeopardy. Why for example, would anyone that promotes women rights, LGBT~Q etc advocate Islam or Sharia Law? Could it be the mentality that the "enemy of my enemy is my friend"? Perhaps liberals do not care about what takes Christianity's place here in America as long as Christianity has been destroyed here in America.

 

God bless,

William

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William, at last a reasoned discussion of the issues, :).

 

Okay, so three foiled attempts since 911. Well we are told that in the last 12 months in th UK there have been something like 20 foiled attacks. Sadly as the news testifies 3 attacks have succeeded this year in the UK. But my point here is that they were carried out by UK nationals! Not by immigrants.

 

That is where the concept of deporting or preventing the entry of this enemy fails. These radicals are already part of your society, and we cannot decide to change our tolerant societies and deport all muslims just because a few maniacs from their group are radicals.

 

Which brings me to your next point, how do we stop ISIS from spreading? Our greatest weapon n this battle still remains love, Christ's love and the truth. If we want to overcome the hatred that is spewed out by these radical teachers we have to show people there is a better way, something which values them and wants something better for them. We have to create more caring and inclusive society so that nobody feels downtrodden, ignored, forgotten or lost. We have to be inclusive and welcoming, not isolationist and divisive.

 

So let me ask again, where would Christ be in our society? That is where Christians should be too. We may not be able to help all refugees, but we should not close our hearts to them just because they are different to us!

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Okay, so three foiled attempts since 911. Well we are told that in the last 12 months in th UK there have been something like 20 foiled attacks. Sadly as the news testifies 3 attacks have succeeded this year in the UK. But my point here is that they were carried out by UK nationals! Not by immigrants.
Regarding the UK, that's somewhat misleading:

 

Khuram Shahzad Butt (London Bridge) was born in Pakistan and gained citizenship through immigration.

Rachid Redoune (London Bridge) was from Morocco and held Moroccan/Libyan nationality at the time of the attack.

Youssef Zaghba (London Bridge) was from Morocco and held Moroccan/Italian nationality at the time of the attack.

Salman Abedi (Manchester) was born to Libyan immigrants, held Libyan/British nationality, and lived between Libya and Britain from 2011 onwards.

 

Khalid Masood, the only one where immigration was not involved, was in trouble from early youth and spent time from 2005 in Saudi Arabia teaching English after converting to Islam.

 

We don't need tighter controls, but enforcing the ones we have would be sensible for safety. With the government caught selling citizenship to the rich (Guardian 2017), and multiple reports of adults taking refugee spaces reserved for children and being allowed to, I think expecting that to happen is unlikely.

 

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