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Calvarystudy

Bible Version Chart

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Here are some articles detailing what might be considered minor errors:

http://www.bible-researcher.com/kjvdefects.html

http://www.bible-researcher.com/thayer1.html

 

And a couple with praise:

http://www.bible-researcher.com/kjv1.html

http://www.bible-researcher.com/barnes1.html

 

God bless,

William

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Here are some articles detailing what might be considered minor errors:

http://www.bible-researcher.com/kjvdefects.html

http://www.bible-researcher.com/thayer1.html

 

And a couple with praise:

http://www.bible-researcher.com/kjv1.html

http://www.bible-researcher.com/barnes1.html

 

God bless,

William

 

 

Wow, we could exchange weblinks all day long and still get nowhere.

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Wow, we could exchange weblinks all day long and still get nowhere.

You did notice that he presented two links with criticisms of the KJV and two links in support of the KJV didn't you?

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You did notice that he presented two links with criticisms of the KJV and two links in support of the KJV didn't you?
It is hard to see clearly when one is so willfully blind. It also betrays the fact that he would never ever really try and understand the topic.

 

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Here are some articles detailing what might be considered minor errors:http://www.bible-researcher.com/kjvdefects.html

I skimmed through this article, and frankly those are NOT defects in the KJV. Just because the writer prefers to have a different way of bringing out the translation does not justify calling this Bible defective. Most of the anti-KJV propaganda is just that -- mere propaganda. If this translation were indeed defective it is hardly possible that it would have been THE English Bible for over 300 years. Before the modern translations came on the scene, any reference to the Bible was a reference to the Authorized Version

 

 

 

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I skimmed through this article, and frankly those are NOT defects in the KJV. Just because the writer prefers to have a different way of bringing out the translation does not justify calling this Bible defective. Most of the anti-KJV propaganda is just that -- mere propaganda. If this translation were indeed defective it is hardly possible that it would have been THE English Bible for over 300 years. Before the modern translations came on the scene, any reference to the Bible was a reference to the Authorized Version.

 

Here is one from the text:

 

"He who reads the Gospel of St. Mark in Greek gets a vivid idea of the promptitude, the tendency to strike while the iron is hot, which cunning and malice may engender. A princess enters the banqueting room of a king, enchants him by the grace of her dancing, and evokes from his tipsy rashness the promise, 'Ask what thou wilt and I will give it thee, even to the half of my kingdom.' (St. Mark vi., 22.) The damsel, after consulting with her mother, returns to the banqueting room, points, no doubt, to the dishes on the banqueting table, and says, 'Give me forthwith, on a dish, the head of John the Baptist.' In the English Bible the speech runs, 'Give me by and by, in a charger.' 'By and by' means, in our century, a time somewhat distant from the present; the phrase has ceased to mean 'forthwith.' A charger, in modern English, signifies a war horse; the word has ceased to signify a dish or platter from which plates are charged or supplied.

 

Does "Give me by and by, in a charger ..." really convey the same meaning as "Give me forthwith, on a dish ..."? The author does not claim this is something for which we should burn the KJV, but it does suggest that after 300 years, an update to some phrases may be needed to regain the original meaning where our language has changed. That hardly seems like 'propaganda'.

 

 

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It is hard to see clearly when one is so willfully blind. It also betrays the fact that he would never ever really try and understand the topic.

 

Wow. judging much?

 

What a shame i cannot block you.

 

 

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I skimmed through this article, and frankly those are NOT defects in the KJV. Just because the writer prefers to have a different way of bringing out the translation does not justify calling this Bible defective. Most of the anti-KJV propaganda is just that -- mere propaganda. If this translation were indeed defective it is hardly possible that it would have been THE English Bible for over 300 years. Before the modern translations came on the scene, any reference to the Bible was a reference to the Authorized Version

 

 

 

 

Amen!

 

Have you noticed with these anti-KJVists that they dont just DISLIKE the KJV.

 

The HATE it.

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Wow. judging much?
That is quite funny coming from you.

 

What a shame i cannot block you.
I know.

 

 

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Here is one from the text:

Does "Give me by and by, in a charger ..." really convey the same meaning as "Give me forthwith, on a dish ..."? The author does not claim this is something for which we should burn the KJV, but it does suggest that after 300 years, an update to some phrases may be needed to regain the original meaning where our language has changed. That hardly seems like 'propaganda'.

Well if we want to get right down to cases, "Give me immediately on a platter.." would be more in keeping with the actual Greek words.

 

My point is that this author unjustly and with malice aforethought titled his article as "DEFECTS of the King James Version". For the 17th century those were definitely not defects, and for us, all we have to do is consult Strong's Concordance for clarification. Had he said something to the effect that there were archaisms in the KJV, that would certainly be fair.

 

And James White takes the same pejorative approach to the KJV because he is a disciple of Westcott & Hort. As Dean Burgon quoted from Scripture "Little children, keep yourselves from idols". Had W&H not created idols out of Vaticanus and Sinaiticus, we could have had a proper English revision which removed the archaisms but preserved the integrity of the Bible.

 

Strong's Concordance

exautés: at once, forthwith

Original Word: ἐξαυτῆς

Part of Speech: Adverb

Transliteration: exautés

Phonetic Spelling: (ex-ow'-tace)

Short Definition: immediately, instantly

Definition: immediately, instantly, at once.

 

Strong's Concordance

pinax: a board, dish

Original Word: πίναξ, ακος, ἡ

Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine

Transliteration: pinax

Phonetic Spelling: (pin'-ax)

Short Definition: a plate, platter

Definition: a plate, platter, disc, dish.

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And James White takes the same pejorative approach to the KJV because he is a disciple of Westcott & Hort.
No modern textual scholar follows Westcott & Hort. It is silly to even suggest such a thing. Their theories are well over 125 years old. Edited by Origen
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No modern textual scholar follow Westcott & Hort. It is silly to even suggest such a thing. Their theories are well over 125 years old.

 

Well those textual scholars who have produced the "critical texts" clearly follow Westcott & Hort. Let's take an example (1 Tim 3:16):

 

CRITICAL TEXTS

 

Westcott and Hort 1881

καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· Ὃς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι, ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις, ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ, ἀνελήμφθη ἐν δόξῃ.

 

Nestle Greek New Testament 1904

καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· Ὃς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι, ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις, ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ, ἀνελήμφθη ἐν δόξῃ.

 

Tischendorf 8th Edition

καί ὁμολογουμένως μέγας εἰμί ὁ ὁ εὐσέβεια μυστήριον ὅς φανερόω ἐν σάρξ δικαιόω ἐν πνεῦμα ὁράω ἄγγελος κηρύσσω ἐν ἔθνος πιστεύω ἐν κόσμος ἀναλαμβάνω ἐν δόξα

 

English Revised Version

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, received up in glory.

 

 

RECEIVED TEXTS

 

RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005

Καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· θεὸς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι, ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις, ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ, ἀνελήφθη ἐν δόξῃ.

 

Greek Orthodox Church 1904

καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶ τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· Θεὸς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν Πνεύματι, ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις, ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ, ἀνελήφθη ἐν δόξῃ.

 

Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894

καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶ τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· Θεὸς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι, ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις, ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ, ἀνελήφθη ἐν δόξῃ.

 

Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550

καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· Θεὸς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ ἀνελήφθη ἐν δόξῃ

 

King James Bible

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

Dean Burgon wrote a lengthy dissertation on this verse in his book The Revision Revised.

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Well those textual scholars who have produced the "critical texts" clearly follow Westcott & Hort. Let's take an example (1 Tim 3:16):
The only thing you have shown is that they are different from the so-called TR. You have assumed because they agree those texts are following W&H but they are not. They are following the textual evidence. Can you cite the evidence and explain why that choice was made? Hint, it has nothing to do with Westcott & Hort.

 

Dean Burgon wrote a lengthy dissertation on this verse in his book The Revision Revised.
Burgon is just as out of date as Westcott & Hort. Edited by Origen
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When a person does proper complete study of the history of the KJV you will see the connection to not only King James but the Pope. I am not saying the KJV is corrupt, but there are far better translations today like the New American Standard Bible for one, the ESV, are the two most literal

 

When I was a pastor I would have people wanting me to go back to the "original KJV". I happened to have a photo copy of the special anniversary edition of the KJV. So I would show them, that. would surprise them and that ended that.. Spelling is wildly different, and its very hard to read.

 

 

Justme

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KJV and NASB are two of the better Bible versions in my opinion. I prefer KJV over all others.

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KJV and NASB are two of the better Bible versions in my opinion.
How are they better?

 

I prefer KJV over all others.
Why?

 

 

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Well............. I've owned and studied many translations --- over many, many years. I never tire of Spiritually engaging with each. Now, in the twilight of my years, I find myself more and more turning to the KJV.

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How are they better?

 

Why?

 

 

The KJV is the culmination of the Protestant Reformation completed by 47 top scholars over a 7 year period. William Tyndale had much influence on this Bible as many others and died to get this into our hands. It is not perfect but it is the best version in my opinion and is deemed as the closest to the original texts. The KJV is known as the "majesty of style."

 

I also use the NASB because it helps me out when I struggle with something in the KJV due to the Old English.

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The KJV is the culmination of the Protestant Reformation completed

 

Who told you that?

 

Have you ever read the Geneva? I'd say that is the best of the Protestant Reformation though it is in Old English. The footnotes in it are from classical Reformers. The Reformer's study notes were removed and are completely missing from the KJV because they challenged the political authority of the day.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Geneva-Bible-...s=geneva+bible

https://www.christforums.org/forum/c...e-geneva-bible

https://www.christforums.org/forum/c...9-geneva-bible

 

And if you want a recommendation of the best modern Reformation Study Bible:

 

https://www.christforums.org/forum/c...on-study-bible

 

Here's a picture of an actual 1599 Geneva's page which hangs on my wall. You can see the Reformer's study notes. And for further information of interest, it was this very Bible that Pilgrims had in hand when they came to America. Not the KJV:

 

 

204451007_fetchid2372ampd1432153022amptypefull.thumb.jpg.91ecac872809074b5b846989cc404a99.jpg

 

God bless,

William

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CDF47 said:
The KJV is the culmination of the Protestant Reformation completed by 47 top scholars over a 7 year period.

Translations today are produced by numerous scholars as well. The ESV boasts a team of 100 scholars.

 

The KJV translators used printed Greek editions not manuscripts. Those printed Greek editions were based on only a hand of manuscripts and the earliest dated to only the 10th century.

 

By any comparison, 20\21 century scholarship are must better off in terms of number, quality, and age of Greek manuscript than the KJV translators. They just did not have the resources. And that is not only true of the Greek text but also of early translations of the Greek text into Latin, Coptic, Syriac, etc.

 

CDF47 said:
It is not perfect but it is the best version in my opinion and is deemed as the closest to the original texts.

Since we don't have the original texts of the N.T. authors, how one go about proving that?

 

CDF47 said:
I also use the NASB because it helps me out when I struggle with something in the KJV due to the Old English.

Here is an interesting fact. The translation work on the NASB was done by a group of anonymous scholars. I find that interesting since you seem to place so much value in knowing that there were "47 top scholars" who worked on the KJV.

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Origen. The NASB Translator's names are openly available at http://www.wholesomewords.org/nasbtran.html I personally knew two of the orignal translators, Dr. Henery Moeller and Dr. Fred young as they were two on the proffesors at my seminary. Dr. James White was a consultant on the update, he and I took several classes together at Grand Canyon University.

 

As a side note the Nasb is being updated again right now and is expected to be published perhaps by next June 2018. 60% of the updated material is in the New testament and 40% is in the Old. I know a person who is overseeing this and he and I talk a few times a year. I really love the NASB and it is a Bible I trust above all others. I hope you find this helpful and interesting. Blessings.

 

 

justme

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Who told you that?

 

Have you ever read the Geneva? I'd say that is the best of the Protestant Reformation though it is in Old English. The footnotes in it are from classical Reformers. The Reformer's study notes were removed and are completely missing from the KJV because they challenged the political authority of the day.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Geneva-Bible-...s=geneva+bible

https://www.christforums.org/forum/c...e-geneva-bible

https://www.christforums.org/forum/c...9-geneva-bible

 

And if you want a recommendation of the best modern Reformation Study Bible:

 

https://www.christforums.org/forum/c...on-study-bible

 

Here's a picture of an actual 1599 Geneva's page which hangs on my wall. You can see the Reformer's study notes. And for further information of interest, it was this very Bible that Pilgrims had in hand when they came to America. Not the KJV:

 

 

[ATTACH=JSON]{"alt":"Click image for larger version Name:\tfetch?id=2372&d=1432153022&type=full.jpg Views:\t1 Size:\t100.8 KB ID:\t49154","data-align":"none","data-attachmentid":"49154","data-size":"full","title":"fetch?id=2372&d=1432153022&type=full.jpg"}[/ATTACH]

 

God bless,

William

 

William what a treasure! I am sure you already know this. I was unaware until a couple of years ago that the early settlers here did not like the KJV but they wanted only Geneva Bible. I am aware there is reprent of the Geneva Bible and a number of Churches still use it. Blessings.

 

 

justme

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Who told you that?

 

Have you ever read the Geneva? I'd say that is the best of the Protestant Reformation though it is in Old English. The footnotes in it are from classical Reformers. The Reformer's study notes were removed and are completely missing from the KJV because they challenged the political authority of the day.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Geneva-Bible-...s=geneva+bible

https://www.christforums.org/forum/c...e-geneva-bible

https://www.christforums.org/forum/c...9-geneva-bible

 

And if you want a recommendation of the best modern Reformation Study Bible:

 

https://www.christforums.org/forum/c...on-study-bible

 

Here's a picture of an actual 1599 Geneva's page which hangs on my wall. You can see the Reformer's study notes. And for further information of interest, it was this very Bible that Pilgrims had in hand when they came to America. Not the KJV:

 

 

[ATTACH=JSON]{"alt":"Click image for larger version Name:\tfetch?id=2372&d=1432153022&type=full.jpg Views:\t1 Size:\t100.8 KB ID:\t49154","data-align":"none","data-attachmentid":"49154","data-size":"full","title":"fetch?id=2372&d=1432153022&type=full.jpg"}[/ATTACH]

 

God bless,

William

 

I'll have to check out that Geneva Bible. I have not read into that one. Thanks for the information.

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Translations today are produced by numerous scholars as well. The ESV boasts a team of 100 scholars were used to produced it.

 

The KJV translators used printed Greek editions not manuscripts. Those printed Greek editions were based on only a hand of manuscripts and the earliest dated to only the 10th century.

 

By any comparison, 20\21 century scholarship are must better off in terms of number, quality, and age of Greek manuscript than the KJV translators. They just did not have the resources. And that is not only true of the Greek text but also of early translations of the Greek text into Latin, Coptic, Syriac, etc.

 

Since we don't have the original texts of the N.T. authors, how one go about proving that?

 

Here is an interesting fact. The translation work on the NASB was done by a group of anonymous scholars. I find that interesting since you seem to place so much value in knowing that there were "47 top scholars" who worked on the KJV.

 

I have an easier time understanding the NASB sometimes than the KJV which is why I use it. Plus, it is a pretty reputable Bible, along with the ESV. I don't have an issue with any of the Bibles listed.

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