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AndThisGospel

Our first death

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Romans 5:12 "Therefore, just as through one man [Adam] sin (singular) entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned

 

13 For until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

 

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come."

 

The facts:

  • Sin singular entered "the human race" - i.e., the world - through Adam's transgression of a known command.
  • From Adam until Moses, where God's law was posted at Mount Sinai, all men were dying.

The question is why were those from Adam to Moses dying? Were they dying because the law condemned them to death? No, the law had yet to been posted by God on Mount Sinai. Therefore "sin is not imputed when there is no law" (Rom 5:13). Then why were they dying?

 

Answer: Because all men share Adam's fallen life indwelt with sin and therefore stand disqualified for heaven and eternal life.

 

 

 

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....all men share Adam's fallen life indwelt with sin and therefore stand disqualified for heaven and eternal life.

 

1 Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh (Greek: Sarx) and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption....53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

 

 

 

 

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We stand condemned "in Adam", but there's good news:

 

Rom 5:18 So then as through one transgression [Adam's] there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness [Christ's - "the last Adam" - see 1 Cor 15:45] there resulted justification of life to all men.

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  • Hebrews 9:27 It is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment.

Genesis 3 indicates that all men are under the curse of physical death. The judgement is easily equatable to the "second death," implying that the first death is which all men are appointed once.

 

Question for you, when Adam sinned did he die that day? If so, spiritually, physically, or both?

 

Ephesians 2 teaches that, before salvation, we are “dead” in trespasses and sins (verse 1). This must speak of spiritual death, because we were still “alive” physically before salvation. While we were in that spiritually “dead” condition, God saved us (verse 5; see also Romans 5:8). Colossians 2:13 reiterates this truth: “And you, who were dead in your trespasses . . . God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses.”

 

Are you differentiating between Spiritual and Physical death, AndThisGospel? If not, be sure too, brother.

 

My thoughts, those that are dead spiritually will experience God's Judgment. It is impossible for the natural or unregenerate man to "see", "enter" heaven (John 3) let alone draw near to the object of our faith - Jesus Christ John 6:44.

 

God bless,

William

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The judgement is easily equatable to the "second death," implying that the first death is which all men are appointed once.

 

I agree....Our first death comes because we are the multiplication of Adam's fallen life. That life stands condemned. The 2nd death is future. No one except Christ has experienced the 2nd death. Those who persistently and ultimately hardened their hearts to the good news found "in Christ" will taste "the wrath of God", which is God abandonment - the 2nd death.

 

Question for you, when Adam sinned did he die that day? If so, spiritually, physically, or both?

 

If the Trinity had not prepared for the entrance of sin before the foundation of the world was created, Adam would have died the very day he sinned. But as soon as there was sin there was a Savior. Because of Christ the human race has been delivered from "the curse of the law".

 

Adam first experienced a spiritual death followed by his physical death years later.

 

Ephesians 2 teaches that, before salvation, we are “dead” in trespasses and sins (verse 1). This must speak of spiritual death...

 

Yes, we are conceived in iniquity and thus we come into this world spiritually dead. See Ps 51:5 Our fallen, human nature and mind are in agreement. What one wants the other desires too....See Eph 2:3

 

My thoughts, those that are dead spiritually will experience God's Judgment. It is impossible for the natural or unregenerate man to "see", "enter" heaven (John 3) let alone draw near to the object of our faith - Jesus Christ John 6:44.

 

I agree with the exception of those who have not reached the age of accountability.

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I agree with the exception of those who have not reached the age of accountability.

 

Happy Lord's Day, AndThisGospel,

 

Scripture, please.

 

God bless,

William

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Scripture, please.

 

God bless,

William

 

Eph 2:5 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith...

 

"Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" [Rom 3:24]

 

"For the law of the Spirit of lifein Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of sin and death" [Rom 8:2]

 

"But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and justice and sanctification and redemption" [1 Cor 1:30]

 

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new" [2 Cor 5:17]

 

"God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses" [2 Cor 5:19]

 

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ" [Eph 1:3]

 

"But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ." [Eph 2:13]

 

 

 

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"We believe with our hearts, and so we are made right with God. And we declare with our mouths that we believe, and so we are saved." Rom 10:10

 

To believe with your heart means to believe with your mind. Heart & mind are interchangeable. An infant is not cable of making decisions, neither are mentally handicapped folks. They cannot exercise faith in God. They cannot receive what they do not understand. That comes at what I call the age of accountability. That age, if ever reached, only God knows.

 

What happens to those who never reach the age of accountability - are they unsaved and hell bound (the 2nd death)? Was Christ's redemption only provisional or did it actually do something?

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"What happens to those who never reach the age of accountability - are they unsaved and hell bound (the 2nd death)? Was Christ's redemption only provisional or did it actually do something?

 

Answer: Romans 5:18

 

"So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men."

 

We are saved by God's grace in Christ. Faith is not the Savior. Too many Christians make their "faith" the Savior and not Christ's redemption from the curse.

 

For those who have reached the age were they can make a choice then "faith" is a requirement to receive what Christ has already accomplished in His birth, life, death and resurrection. Thus for the mature adult justification must be received by faith. Hence Justification by faith.

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This is really another subject, but since we are here....

 

My position is that all infants, and those mentally challenged, who die before the age of accountability are they safe "in Christ." I based this off many texts, but the primary ones are Romans 4:15 & Romans 5:18.

 

"For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression." Rom 4:15

 

"...sin is not counted where there is no law." Rom 5:13

 

Within Christianity there are four views:

 

1. Since babies are born without sin they will be saved.

2. Since babies are born with the guilt of Adam's sin they will be saved only after infant baptism.

3. Since God knows what choice they would make had they reached the age of accountability, that will decide their eternal destiny.

4. The eternal destiny of babies depends on the choice of their parents.

 

1 and 2 are false. 3 is highly speculative and 4 makes someone else's faith the Savior...

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This is really another subject, but since we are here....

 

My position is that all infants, and those mentally challenged, who die before the age of accountability are they safe "in Christ." I based this off many texts, but the primary ones are Romans 4:15 & Romans 5:18.

 

"For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression." Rom 4:15

 

"...sin is not counted where there is no law." Rom 5:13

 

Within Christianity there are four views:

 

1. Since babies are born without sin they will be saved.

2. Since babies are born with the guilt of Adam's sin they will be saved only after infant baptism.

3. Since God knows what choice they would make had they reached the age of accountability, that will decide their eternal destiny.

4. The eternal destiny of babies depends on the choice of their parents.

 

1 and 2 are false. 3 is highly speculative and 4 makes someone else's faith the Savior...

 

Here's a pretty good article on the subject which covers my position: http://reformedanswers.org/answer.asp/file/40610

 

God bless,

William

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Here's a pretty good article on the subject which covers my position: http://reformedanswers.org/answer.asp/file/40610

 

God bless,

William

 

 

Before even finishing the above article I have already run into two problems:

  1. Covenantal infants vs non-covenantal Infants
  2. Original sin

The Scripture is very clear that Christ saved "all men" in Himself. "He is the Savior of all men" 1 Tim 4:10 Christ's doing & dying "resulted in justification of life to all men". Rom 5:18 Furthermore God doesn't play favorites. Rom 2:11/Acts 10:34 Therefore He has saved "all men" in Himself, but not all men will receive this truth.

 

Then why will some be lost? Because they persistently hardened their hearts to the truth as it is "in Christ".

 

What's your view of original sin? I hope it isn't the Catholic version where we are born guilty of sin?

 

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Before even finishing the above article I have already run into two problems:

  1. Covenantal infants vs non-covenantal Infants
  2. Original sin

 

 

 

 

 

The Scripture is very clear that Christ saved "all men" in Himself. "He is the Savior of all men" 1 Tim 4:10 Christ's doing & dying "resulted in justification of life to all men". Rom 5:18 Furthermore God doesn't play favorites. Rom 2:11/Acts 10:34 Therefore He has saved "all men" in Himself, but not all men will receive this truth.

 

Then why will some be lost? Because they persistently hardened their hearts to the truth as it is "in Christ".

 

What's your view of original sin? I hope it isn't the Catholic version where we are born guilty of sin?

 

I am Reformed/Calvinist. I believe though Christ's atonement was sufficient for the whole world it is only efficient for the Elect by design. Not a drop of blood goes waste. In other words, I believe in a Limited Atonement.

 

Catholics are Pelagian/Semi and we have a section for them on the board under "Controversial doctrines".

 

I'm not going to touch your post, but I'd love to dissect your soteriological misconceptions at another time. Feel free to make a thread in the "Controversial Doctrines" section of the board under your soteriology.

 

God bless,

William

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"This is original sin and it is universal (save for Christ who was born of the virgin Mary - Matt. 1:18-25)."

 

Christ is God. He has always been God. There was never a time when He ceased to be God, but at the incarnation "a body" (Heb 10:5) was made for the Deity of Christ to dwell. That "body" came from Mary's womb with all our liabilities.

 

If you define "original sin" (O.S.) as original guilt then Jesus couldn't have taken upon Himself our fallen humanity indwelt with our bent-to-self (iniquity), but if you define O.S. as Paul defines it in Romans 5:12-14, then O.S. can't mean original guilt.

 

Heb 2:14 "Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood (see 1 Cor 15:50), He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives. 16 For assuredly He does not give help to angels (unfallen beings), but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham. 17 Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.

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Christ is God. He has always been God. There was never a time when He ceased to be God, but at the incarnation "a body" (Heb 10:5) was made for the Deity of Christ to dwell. That "body" came from Mary's womb with all our liabilities.

 

If you define "original sin" (O.S.) as original guilt then Jesus couldn't have taken upon Himself our fallen humanity indwelt with our bent-to-self (iniquity), but if you define O.S. as Paul defines it in Romans 5:12-14, then O.S. can't mean original guilt.

 

Heb 2:14 "Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood (see 1 Cor 15:50), He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives. 16 For assuredly He does not give help to angels (unfallen beings), but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham. 17 Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.

 

I've never heard any Reformed theologian worth the salt suggest that it is possible for God to sin—and, remember, Jesus is God.

  • John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

At the same time, however, the Bible says that he took to himself a true human nature. He was made like us in all points except for sin

  • Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

This means that he was not born, as we are, with a sinful nature (original sin). Yet even in reaching this conclusion there is one thing that must never be forgotten, or in any way minimized. He was tempted in all points as we are. And it was just as hard (maybe even harder) for him to resist Satanic temptation, as it is for us who are sinful by nature.

  • Matthew 4:3 And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.”

Jesus experienced "external" temptations, and to perform the things only the Son of God could do.

 

Your statements really do go into the Hypostatic Union, again another thread would do justice and probably provide a most fruitful study.

 

God bless,

William

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Further question, are you familiar with Jesus' two genealogies? Just curious, are you stating that Jesus was born from Adam's genealogy?

 

God bless,

William

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Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

 

How is one tempted?

 

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil,....14 man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.....

 

God can't be tempted. Jesus is God...He is the Son of God. Temptation is impossible with God, but with us temptation is real.

 

At the incarnation the Divinity of Christ was united to our fallen Adamic life from the womb of Mary. That life was called "the son of man". As a man Christ was tempted as we are, yet He never sinned. You are reading "yet without sin" to mean without our fallen nature, but it cannot be so. For temptation to be real Christ as God had to assume our fallen Adamic life. But the real reason the Son of God assumed our fallen Adamic life was to legally redeem it from under the curse of the law.

 

Gal 4:4 "...when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law

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Rom 8:3 For God achieved what the law could not do because it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he (God) condemned sin (where?) in the flesh..."

 

Likeness does not mean unlikeness. Likeness means that while Jesus as God assumed our fallen Adamic life indwelt with iniquity, that life was never His by native right.

 

Christ as God took upon His sinless nature our sinful nature....It was never His. As God He assumed us, from Mary, in order to legally redeem the Adamic race from under the curse of the law. This is the core of the gospel!

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How is one tempted?

 

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil,....14 man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.....

 

God can't be tempted. Jesus is God...He is the Son of God. Temptation is impossible with God, but with us temptation is real.

 

At the incarnation the Divinity of Christ was united to our fallen Adamic life from the womb of Mary. That life was called "the son of man". As a man Christ was tempted as we are, yet He never sinned. You are reading "yet without sin" to mean without our fallen nature, but it cannot be so. For temptation to be real Christ as God had to assume our fallen Adamic life. But the real reason the Son of God assumed our fallen Adamic life was to legally redeem it from under the curse of the law.

 

Gal 4:4 "...when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law

 

God is unable to be "seduced" by evil, Jesus had a "righteous" disposition. Not a fallen nature, and He did not come from the genealogy of Adam. Jesus' Luke genealogy is of Joseph, his legal father which was a descendant from David, therefore He had the legal right to the throne. Original Sin is from Adam which the male passes down and not the mother. Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit Matthew 1:18. Tis why there are two Genealogies given in both Matthew and Luke. One is from Mary and the other from Joseph.

 

Jesus was tempted by others to perform more healing and to give signs. By tempting I mean the others provocation. Of course Jesus did not submit though tempted in Gethsemane. Though tempted by Satan and others John 4:48. Jesus could of should of done because he would of won others, some say, but this temptation by others could only be performed by the Son of God.

 

God bless,

William

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Rom 8:3 For God achieved what the law could not do because it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he (God) condemned sin (where?) in the flesh..."

 

Likeness does not mean unlikeness. Likeness means that while Jesus as God assumed our fallen Adamic life indwelt with iniquity, that life was never His by native right.

 

Clearly, he is speaking of physical likeness. In the flesh, but not in sinful flesh. That is, with a human body which was so far like the physical organization of the rest of mankind, but yet which was not in Him, as in other men, the seat of sin; at once like and unlike. Jesus has a divine nature and a human nature, which in the case of Jesus' Hypostatic Union was not fallen. Unlike Adam, Jesus is righteous.

 

Matthew Henry: God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and a sacrifice for sin, condemned sin in the flesh, which the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, etc., Romans 8:4. Observe, [1.] How Christ appeared: In the likeness of sinful flesh. Not sinful, for he was holy, harmless, undefiled; but in the likeness of that flesh which was sinful. He took upon him that nature which was corrupt, though perfectly abstracted from the corruptions of it. His being circumcised, redeemed, baptized with John's baptism, bespeaks the likeness of sinful flesh. The bitings of the fiery serpents were cured by a serpent of brass, which had the shape, through free from the venom, of the serpents that bit them. It was great condescension that he who was God should be made in the likeness of flesh; but much greater that he who was holy should be made in the likeness of sinful flesh. And for sin, - here the best Greek copies place the comma. God sent him, en homoiōmati sarkos hamartias, kai peri hamartias - in the likeness of sinful flesh, and as a sacrifice for sin. The Septuagint call a sacrifice for sin no more than peri hamartias - for sin; so Christ was a sacrifice; he was sent to be so, Hebrews 9:26.

 

John Calvin: Christ accomplished in his own flesh. But he says, that he came inthe likeness of the flesh of sin; for though the flesh of Christ was polluted by no stains, yet it seemed apparently to be sinful, inasmuch as it sustained the punishment due to our sins, and doubtless death exercised all its power over it as though it was subject to itself. And as it behoved our High-priest to learn by his own experience how to aid the weak, Christ underwent our infirmities, that he might be more inclined to sympathy, and in this respect also there appeared some resemblance of a sinful nature.

 

Remember, the flesh is not inherently evil. It can be used in various ways in the NT.

 

John 1:12-14

  • But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
  • who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
  • And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son[d] from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Are you suggesting that God was born of the will of the flesh or the will of man and not God?

 

God bless,

William

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...Jesus had a "righteous" disposition. Not a fallen nature, and He did not come from the genealogy of Adam.

 

Everyone came from Adam after the fall. That's an indisputable fact!

 

"In Adam all die" 1 Cor 15:22

 

"From one man he made every nation of the human race to inhabit the entire earth..." Acts 17:26

 

Jesus as the son of man was "born of a woman" - a woman who came from Adam. Christ as God didn't assume the unfallen Adamic race, but the fallen race. He didn't come to redeem mankind before the fall, but after the fall.

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Clearly, he is speaking of physical likeness. In the flesh, but not in sinful flesh.

 

So Jesus pretended to be like the fallen human race He came to redeem? I suggest that you read the text again:

 

Rom 8:3 God, by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,...

 

Note that God condemned "sin" (singular) "in the flesh". Paul, writing of himself, said: "sin that dwells in me" (Rom 7:20) And he also stated, "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells" verse 18. That "nothing good" in the flesh is our bent-to-self or better yet, our love of self, the essence all our sinning.

 

Christ, by assuming our fallen life, defeated "sin in the flesh" and therefore He was victorious. His victory is our victory. His perfect life is ours by faith.

 

 

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So Jesus pretended to be like the fallen human race He came to redeem?

 

Jesus really had a human nature. He did not pretend. You are confusing the Human nature with Sin nature.

 

Everyone came from Adam after the fall. That's an indisputable fact!

 

"In Adam all die" 1 Cor 15:22

 

"From one man he made every nation of the human race to inhabit the entire earth..." Acts 17:26

 

Everyone but Christ Jesus. Who is the "he that made" in Acts 17:26? Why are you including Him in everyone? I suggest you read 1 Corinthians 15:22 again, and also the context of Acts 17:26.

 

Adam and Christ are what theologians call Federal Headship.

  • Romans 5:13-14 “Death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come” (v. 14).

The work of both representatives had stunning effects for humanity. Those effects, however, are radically different. We are all lost through Adam’s sin, so we are restored through Christ’s righteousness

 

Read slowly, and then reread again. I can't comprehend the Scriptures for you. And ask yourself how do they suggest that Christ Jesus was under the Federal Headship of Adam?

  • Romans 8:3 "For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,"

When Scripture states that Jesus was made in the likeness of sinful flesh, the Bible is not saying Jesus was sinful or that He possessed anything sinful within Himself. Instead, it means the Son of God, Christ Jesus was in the likeness of human, sinful flesh--not that Jesus was sinful or that He possessed a sin nature either in His human or divine nature. That is why it says, "in the likeness of sinful flesh." He was not sinful. He was not fallen. He did not have something sinful as part of Himself--whether it be flesh or spirit.

 

Can't make it anymore clearer.

 

CARM:

 

If all people have original sin and Jesus was a human being, then didn't Jesus need to have had a sin nature?

 

Before we can answer this question, we need to know what the term "original sin" means. This is a term used to describe the effect of Adam's sin on his descendants (Rom. 5:12-32). Specifically, it is our inheritance of a sinful nature from Adam. The sinful nature originated with Adam and is passed down from parent to child. We are by nature children of wrath (Eph. 2:3). So, if we inherit our sinful nature from our parents, then Jesus, who had Mary as a parent, must have had a sin nature. Right? Not necessarily. I believe that the sin nature is passed down through the father. Let me explain.

 

Some Bible commentators, with whom I agree, hold the position that the sin nature is passed down through the father. Support for this position is found in the fact that sin entered the world through Adam, not Eve. Remember, Eve was the one who sinned first. However, sin did not enter the world through her. It entered through Adam. Rom. 5:12 says, "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned." The concept behind this is called Federal Headship. This means that a person (a father) represents his descendants. We see this concept taught in Heb. 7:9-10, "And, so to speak, through Abraham even Levi, who received tithes, paid tithes, 10for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him." We see in Hebrews that Levi, a distant descendant of Abraham, is said to have paid tithes to Melchizedek when Abraham was the one offering the tithes, not Levi. What this means is that there is biblical support for the idea that the sin nature was passed down through the father. Since Jesus had not a literal, biological father, the sin nature was not passed down to Him. However, since He had a human mother, he was fully human but without original sin. Jesus has two natures: God and man. Col. 2:9 says, "For in Him dwells all the fullness of deity in bodily form." Jesus received His human nature from Mary, but He received His divine nature through God the Holy Spirit. Therefore, Jesus is both God and man. He was sinless, had no original sin, and was both fully God and fully man.

 

Paul, writing of himself, said: "sin that dwells in me" (Rom 7:20) And he also stated, "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells" verse 18. That "nothing good" in the flesh is our bent-to-self or better yet, our love of self, the essence all our sinning.

 

Can we say that Paul the apostle had sinful flesh? Of course. Would we say that possessing sinful flesh was a defect? Again, yes--after all, sinful flesh is not a good and holy thing. If that is the case then if Jesus' flesh was "sinful," then he would have possessed a defect (unless you want to say his "sinful flesh" was not part of what he is). But that is a problem because:

  • Deuteronomy 17:1 says, "You shall not sacrifice to the Lord your God an ox or a sheep which has a blemish or any defect, for that is a detestable thing to the Lord your God."

Therefore, if Jesus possessed sinful flesh, He had a defect. That would mean He could not be a proper sacrifice for sins.

 

I refuse to keep jumping from Scripture to Scripture in a game of ping pong. Please address the points put to you in reference to your own Scriptures you have already provided.

 

I digress.

 

God bless,

Wiliam

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Jesus really had a human nature. He did not pretend. You are confusing the Human nature with Sin nature.

 

The only type of human nature I know is one indwelt with sin (singular). The primary meaning of iniquity (sin) is not an act but a condition. As a result of the fall, man by very nature is spiritually “bent,” so that the driving force of his very nature is love of self. Paul defines it as “the law of sin and death” [Romans 7:23; 8:2].

 

Everyone but Christ Jesus. Who is the "he that made" in Acts 17:26? Why are you including Him in everyone?

 

Which Christ? Christ as "the son of God" or Christ as "the son of man"?

 

Christ as God has no beginning and no end. He is "the great I am". He is self-existing.

 

Christ as the son of man had a beginning. And He had an ending, according to the flesh. See 2 Cor 5:16. That life traces all the way back to Adam because ultimately we are the multiplication of his fallen life.

 

Therefore, if Jesus possessed sinful flesh, He had a defect. That would mean He could not be a proper sacrifice for sins.

 

Who is Jesus? Isn't Jesus God? Then why are you making "the son of man" God? The Divinity of Christ (God) was united to "our" (not His) fallen life from Adam. God didn't become man and nothing else. Divinity never changed. Instead Divinity was united to our corporate, fallen life from Mary's womb.

 

 

 

 

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...sinful flesh is not a good and holy thing. If that is the case then if Jesus' flesh was "sinful," then he would have possessed a defect

 

Deuteronomy 17:1 says, "You shall not sacrifice to the Lord your God an ox or a sheep which has a blemish or any defect, for that is a detestable thing to the Lord your God."

 

Let's back up.

 

Luke 1:35 "The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.'

 

Clearly "that holy thing" is in reference to the Divinity of Christ and not the humanity that He assumed as the son of man from Mary's womb.

 

Jesus was a perfect sacrifice because He never sinned. He was in all points tempted as we are (and we are tempted by "indwelling sin" - our love of self), yet without transgression (sin).

 

 

 

 

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