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Jasmin Cottontail

Reincarnation: Is it Real?

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There are times I have memories of myself being at a different place with different people or another circumstances I'm not familiar with. I sometimes wonder what could that be. Are those a part of my past memories? Or just vivid dreams? I wonder if reincarnation is real although most people, especially Christians says that it isn't. I somehow get curious and continue wondering if it is real or not.

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I wonder if reincarnation is real although most people, especially Christians says that it isn't.

 

Hello Jasmin,

 

To answer your question, no, it is not Scriptural: https://www.christforums.org/forum/c...-reincarnation

 

Hebrews 9:27-28 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

 

God bless,

William

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Being a recent believer in reincarnation I find this a fascinating question. The word ‘Reincarnation’ is not written in the Bible, but I think that in some parts we can debate that this is what is meant. For example 1 Corinthians 15:51 ‘We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed.’ Or that which is written in Matthew 11: 13-14, for all of the Prophets and the law have prophesied until john, and if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who was to come.’ And further more in Job 14., ‘till my change comes’

There are many places we can find verses like these, but as with all scripture, it is debatable either way.

 

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Being a recent believer in reincarnation I find this a fascinating question. The word ‘Reincarnation’ is not written in the Bible, but I think that in some parts we can debate that this is what is meant. For example 1 Corinthians 15:51 ‘We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed.’ Or that which is written in Matthew 11: 13-14, for all of the Prophets and the law have prophesied until john, and if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who was to come.’ And further more in Job 14., ‘till my change comes’

There are many places we can find verses like these, but as with all scripture, it is debatable either way.

 

And that is some serious Scripture twisting. This kind of dishonest approach results when other religions attempt to force an interpretation upon the Scriptures. In order to support reincarnation from the Biblical texts, one must first disregard the surrounding context, then isolate the verse and force upon it an outside interpretation which ignores the whole of Scripture.

 

God bless,

William

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janemariesayed said:
Being a recent believer in reincarnation I find this a fascinating question. The word ‘Reincarnation’ is not written in the Bible, but I think that in some parts we can debate that this is what is meant. For example 1 Corinthians 15:51 ‘We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed.’ Or that which is written in Matthew 11: 13-14, for all of the Prophets and the law have prophesied until john, and if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who was to come.’ And further more in Job 14., ‘till my change comes’

There are many places we can find verses like these, but as with all scripture, it is debatable either way.

William is correct that is some serious Scripture twisting.

 

Paul is discussing the resurrection of the dead and the resurrection body. Reincarnation is not resurrection.

Quote
Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised.

 

This verse also has nothing to do with reincarnation.

Quote
and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come.

 

John the Baptist denied being Elijah.

Quote
And they asked him, “What then? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” And he answered, “No.”

How then to reconcile these two verse? Easy!

 

The Angel of the Lord tells Zechariah, John's father:

Quote
and he will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready for the Lord a people prepared.”

 

In regard to Job 14 you have completely mangled that passage. Job is speaking of a hope of a resurrection.

Quote
“Man, who is born of woman,

Is short-lived and full of turmoil.

“Like a flower he comes forth and withers.

He also flees like a shadow and does not remain.

“You also open Your eyes on him

And bring him into judgment with Yourself.

“Who can make the clean out of the unclean?

No one!

“Since his days are determined,

The number of his months is with You;

And his limits You have set so that he cannot pass.

“Turn Your gaze from him that he may rest,

Until he fulfills his day like a hired man.

Here Job laments the fact all men will die.

 

Quote
“For there is hope for a tree,

When it is cut down, that it will sprout again,

And its shoots will not fail.

“Though its roots grow old in the ground

And its stump dies in the dry soil,

At the scent of water it will flourish

And put forth sprigs like a plant.

“But man dies and lies prostrate.

Man expires, and where is he?

As water evaporates from the sea,

And a river becomes parched and dried up,

So man lies down and does not rise.

Until the heavens are no longer,

He will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep.

Here Job uses an analogy. A tree may live again but not man. Man lies down and does not rise. He shall not awake.

 

Quote
“Oh that You would hide me in Sheol,

That You would conceal me until Your wrath returns to You,

That You would set a limit for me and remember me!

“If a man dies, will he live again?

All the days of my struggle I will wait

Until my change comes.

“You will call, and I will answer You;

You will long for the work of Your hands.

“For now You number my steps,

You do not observe my sin.

“My transgression is sealed up in a bag,

And You wrap up my iniquity.

Job holds out hope. He has already stated man will not live again but lies down to rise no more. Yet Job has faith. He asks the rhetorical question “If a man dies, will he live again? So then what is the change Job speaks of? Notice the context of the book. Job has said it better if he was dead. The change is death. The next few verses support this. He states concerning God: You will call, and I will answer You; You will long for the work of Your hands. There is nothing there about reincarnation but there is a hope for a resurrection.

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I think that many people share your feelings and memories alike. The problem is that we can't prove any of this. If a person indeed was reincarnated, but the previous existence was no recorded, how is it possible that we are able to prove any of that? Most of the memories are plain and have nothing with famous people who are marked in history, so that is a huge flaw in proving anything consistent.

As human beings we can speculate what would God do, would he place us back to make another circle of life or not. But that is only a speculation, we can't be sure because he is absolutely limitless and really capable of doing anything.

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I think that many people share your feelings and memories alike. The problem is that we can't prove any of this. If a person indeed was reincarnated, but the previous existence was no recorded, how is it possible that we are able to prove any of that? Most of the memories are plain and have nothing with famous people who are marked in history, so that is a huge flaw in proving anything consistent.

As human beings we can speculate what would God do, would he place us back to make another circle of life or not. But that is only a speculation, we can't be sure because he is absolutely limitless and really capable of doing anything.

 

Hi Ferni, first off, WELCOME TO CF :) I'm glad you found us and decided to join us!

 

As for the Lord being able to do "anything", I think that even with God, there are limitations. He cannot "lie" for instance, or "sin" in any other way, and He cannot do what cannot be done (for instance, He cannot cause A to be A and non-A at the same time and in the same way, or make 2+2=5 .. unless He changes the laws that govern the universe ;)). Likewise, He cannot go against His own word, and He's been clear throughout the Scriptures that we will not be reincarnated (as William and Origen have both pointed out above).

 

Of course, as Christians, we know what an absolutely wonderful thing His immutability is, because we can ALWAYS count on Him to do exactly what He told us He would do, and that things will happen, just like He told us they will :)

 

Yours in Christ,

David

 

 

 

"The grass withers, the flower fades, but

the word of our God stands forever"

Isaiah 40:8

 

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As human beings we can speculate what would God do, would he place us back to make another circle of life or not. But that is only a speculation, we can't be sure because he is absolutely limitless and really capable of doing anything.
"We can't be sure what God would do because he is absolutely limitless???"

 

What God does or does not do, can or cannot not do (in this case), is not based upon his omnipotence. It has nothing to do with power or ability but His holy nature, His character. While I have no doubt that if God wanted, he could allow reincarnation, but that is not the question. Thus your point misses the point. The ability to do something does not imply it ought to be done, it will be done, or even that it should be done, regardless of God's omnipotence.

 

Besides, there is a very good reason not to accept reincarnation. It is unbiblical. It is antithetical to the theology of the atonement. The point of reincarnation is to come to a state of oneness, nirvana, perfection, or at the very least a state of equilibrium were your good deed are balanced against your evil deed. That is nothing more than salvation by works. The Scriptures are very clear that we can't be good enough, holy enough, or do enough good deeds. It would not matter if we live 10 lives, 100 lives, or 1000 lives. That is the point of the atonement. God Himself becomes a human being in order to do for us that which we could never accomplish. Thus reincarnation as a doctrine is completely worthless and pointless.

Edited by Origen
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Christians did use to believe in Reincarnation until around five centuries after Jesus died. That is until the Emperor Justinian made the cardinals draw up a decree against anyone who believed in the pre-existence of a soul.

Origen was a theologian who lived around 250A.D. and he apparently wrote that the soul lives many lives, learning lessons in each until we reach that oneness with the Almighty.

 

Here is a good link for an article on the subject, and with a few books as well. It is difficult to know for sure what is the exact truth. But I do know that God will give us every test he can and that could take many lives or just one. Pre-Christian faiths also believe in reincarnation with their being no forgiveness for sins, all you can do is keep trying to be a better person. Each life one lives is supposed to bring us closer to God, or further away.

 

All being said, though, it is neither here nor there whether reincarnation is real or isn't. What is important is the growing ever closer to God. Why wait until the next life when this one is just as good to work at all our faults. Sometimes I have wondered if this is what it means when God says he visits the sins of the Fathers upon the Children. Hardly a fair statement from a merciful God, but if we think our sins are visited to us by karma, then it makes a bit of sense to me that these have come from a past life.

 

http://reluctant-messenger.com/reincarnation-pope.htm

 

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Christians did use to believe in Reincarnation until around five centuries after Jesus died.
That is simply not true, but even if it were true the Bible does not teach reincarnation. You claim Christians believed in reincarnation so cite primary sources.

 

That is until the Emperor Justinian made the cardinals draw up a decree against anyone who believed in the pre-existence of a soul.
True.

 

Origen was a theologian who lived around 250A.D. and he apparently wrote that the soul lives many lives, learning lessons in each until we reach that oneness with the Almighty.
Lets just assume you are correct. He did not get that from the Bible or Christianity.

 

Origen states quite clearly in his Commentary on Matthew:

In this place it does not appear to me that by Elijah the soul is spoken of, lest I should fall into the dogma of transmigration, which is foreign to the church of God, and not handed down by the Apostles, nor anywhere set forth in the Scriptures,...
As you can see Origen says transmigration is foreign to the church of God, the apostles, and the Scriptures. Indeed a careful study Origen shows that he does not support reincarnation.

 

Here is a good link for an article on the subject, and with a few books as well. It is difficult to know for sure what is the exact truth.
Not really. We can read the work of the early church fathers and consult scholarly historians. Notice that your source cites only one example, Origen. That is it. Not really a wealth of evidence, and even that one is suspect. As for the Emperor Justinian and Pope Vigilius, the issue was not really origenism but monophysitism. The Empress Theodora played a hand in having Vigilius made pope. He appeared pro-monophysites, but after being made pope, much to Theodora dismay, he was just as much opposed to the monophysites as his predecessor.

 

Please allow me to help you. Don't cite anything you cannot check out yourself. Read the primary sources for yourself and don't take anyone's word for it. Only consult competent, qualified scholars.

Edited by Origen

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That is simply not true, but even if it were true the Bible does not teach reincarnation. You claim Christians believed in reincarnation so cite primary sources.

 

True.

 

 

Please allow me to help you. Don't cite anything you cannot check out yourself. Read the primary for yourself and don't take anyone's word for it. Only consult competent, qualified scholars.

 

Please accept my apologies for researching on the internet and not paying a visit to my nearest theological university to have the discussion with scholars. Am I not allowed to join in a conversation or express my views unless you are in agreement or unless I have had numerous debates with scholars? I am not feeling very happy and also offended as it seems as though anything I say on this thread I am asking to be told off. I just wanted to express my views but obviously I don't have a right to do that without having every single word I say picked about. I am not the only one on this forum who thinks that there may just be such a thing as reincarnation. I will watch what I say in future as obviously I cannot say anything unless you are in agreement first.

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Please accept my apologies for researching on the internet and not paying a visit to my nearest theological university to have the discussion with scholars.
You don't. Translations of Origen and all the church fathers body of work can be found on line. All you have to do is read them.

 

Am I not allowed to join in a conversation or express my views unless you are in agreement or unless I have had numerous debates with scholars?
You are but if you cite a source that is wrong, as you clearly have, that will be exposed. When your source claimed that the Christians believed in reincarnation for the first 500 years and then it cites only ONE so-called example, that ought to have sent up a red flag.

 

I am not feeling very happy and also offended as it seems as though anything I say on this thread I am asking to be told off.
No one is telling you off, simply pointing out errors. If you are going to claim that the Bible or the early church taught something, you will be challenged.

 

I just wanted to express my views but obviously I don't have a right to do that without having every single word I say picked about.
Welcome to the internet.

 

I am not the only one on this forum who thinks that there may just be such a thing as reincarnation.
Perhaps, however, I assure you if they post claims that cannot be supported they will be challenged.

 

I will watch what I say in future as obviously I cannot say anything unless you are in agreement first.
You ought to watch what you are claiming to be true when there is no evidence to support it. You may believe or post anything you wish.
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As far as I am concerned, I have read the evidence. As well as evidence of you just wanting to pull apart what I am saying. You have upset me, and I feel that what I cited had relevance, but none of my posts have warranted how you have responded by picking apart every single word. As I said, I just wanted to come and chat with Christians, but you make it that we have to speak with scholars or have attended university first.

I am not coming on here to be bullied by you, read the links I posted before trolling. There are other Christian forums out here, I don't have to come on this one only to be trolled and abused by you. Is there not any heart in you that you have to be so hard. You have reduced me to tears with your bullying and picking apart anything I say. It is plainly obvious to me that you do not believe in reincarnation. You don't have to be so nasty about it. Where I found the answers to what I wanted to post, these people are also thinking as I do, and I have said that here in response to this question. There is much evidence to reincarnation, although I have already said it is not in the Bible. I don't have to stay here to be picked on by someone who obviously doesn't like me. I would like a forum where I can speak freely without having to pass an exam first and without paying a visit to the nearest university. You need to calm yourself down, it is not good Christian practice to be so upsetting by picking people apart. You wont see me on here again. You think there is no evidence, but there is plenty, and in the links that I sent in. You have my prayers to become a nice humble man who gives people respect. Bye bye and good luck with it.

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As far as I am concerned, I have read the evidence.
Then cite the primary sources. Provide the scriptural evidence. Clearly you have not. Take for example the claims about Origen.

 

The Egyptians, then, when they boastfully give their own account of the divinity of animals, are to be considered wise; but if any Jew, who has signified his adherence to the law and the lawgiver, refer everything to the Creator of the universe, and the only God, he is, in the opinion of Celsus and those like him, deemed inferior to him who degrades the Divinity not only to the level of rational and mortal animals, but even to that of irrational also!— a view which goes far beyond the mythical doctrine of transmigration, according to which the soul falls down from the summit of heaven, and enters into the body of brute beasts, both tame and savage! (Against Celsus - Book 1, Chapter 20)

 

We do not believe that souls pass from one body to another, and that they may descend so low as to enter the bodies of the brutes. (Against Celsus - Book 8, Chapter 30)
As anyone can see your source is wrong.

 

You have upset me, and I feel that what I cited had relevance, but none of my posts have warranted how you have responded by picking apart every single word.
I am sorry that you are upset but none of your posts provide any evidence for your claims.

 

As I said, I just wanted to come and chat with Christians, but you make it that we have to speak with scholars or have attended university first.
As I said, you may believe and post whatever you wish. If you have a problem with me or others addressing your posts, no one is simply going to accept what you say because you believe it.

 

I am not coming on here to be bullied by you, read the links I posted before trolling.
No one is trolling or bulling you. You are apparently angry because your views have been challenged and you cannot defend them with evidence and cogent arguments.

 

There are other Christian forums out here, I don't have to come on this one only to be trolled and abused by you.
Again, no one is trolling you nor is anyone abusing you.

 

Is there not any heart in you that you have to be so hard. You have reduced me to tears with your bullying and picking apart anything I say.
Sorry, again, you are upset but that does not change the evidence.

 

It is plainly obvious to me that you do not believe in reincarnation.
True!

 

You don't have to be so nasty about it.
Not being nasty but asking for real evidence.

 

Where I found the answers to what I wanted to post, these people are also thinking as I do, and I have said that here in response to this question.
The fact that a group of people believe something is not evidence that it is correct.

 

There is much evidence to reincarnation, although I have already said it is not in the Bible.
Yet you cited three passage to prove that claim which have nothing to do with reincarnation. As for your claim that there is much evidence, that remains to be seen.

 

I don't have to stay here to be picked on by someone who obviously doesn't like me.
You need to understand the difference between addressing a topic with evidence and arguments and having an emotional response.

 

I would like a forum where I can speak freely without having to pass an exam first and without paying a visit to the nearest university.
No one has tried to stop you from speaking.

 

You need to calm yourself down, it is not good Christian practice to be so upsetting by picking people apart.
I am calm. I am not picking you apart but your claims.

 

You wont see me on here again.
That is up to you.

 

You think there is no evidence, but there is plenty, and in the links that I sent in.
The source you cited makes a number of mistake in history and theology which I pointed out to you. No one should ever trust a source that is demonstrably false.

 

You have my prayers to become a nice humble man who gives people respect.
And my prayers for you is that you seek the truth not simply because you like, or agree with it, or it makes you happy, but because you have done the research and really studied the topic and not simply take the word of others whom you happen to agree. Edited by Origen
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There is one biblical statement on this subject that I don't believe has been cited in this thread.

Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

(1 Thessalonians 5:23 ESV)

If salvation involves the body as well as the spirit and soul that means that each believer has only inhabited one body, so reincarnation is impossible.

 

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Hello Jasmin

I do not doubt your sincerity on your experiences.

I think it is important to realize that what we perceive with our natural senses is quite limited.

The spiritual realm is much more real than the natural since it came out of the spiritual.

I believe we err to interpret the spiritual through our inferior natural understanding.

The scripture lays out what we need to know at this time.

If we stand on it by faith we will not be disappointed.

 

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According to my medical studies I never believed in reincarnation. But my grandmother told me that when I was 3 year old I use t tell them about a house in which I was living with my parents. I also tell them about certain places which were actually existed. So reincarnation is may be possible.

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I think the Bible does refer to reincarnation as being born again,but it shows it as a spiritual rebirth and it takes place while the person is still alive. This is more of a blessing from God though- and gives you hope for the future. Although I am not totally convinced of this since there are some pros for Elijah as proof for reincarnation in the Bible but I have to do some more study on this.

Edited by FolkArtist

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Perhaps it would be interesting for anyone to learn from someone who has experience with reincarnation?

Many years after I was excommunicated by the Mormons (the best thing that could happen to me), I met a Wicca ("Witch"). She told me that, among other things, she would make returns to earlier lives. I doubted, but was curious enough. I took my cassette recorder and an empty cassette, and asked her to record the session. She agreed.

After the meeting, I listened to the cassette tape, recorded all the basic data (names, times, places), and researched on the Internet and elsewhere. I was supposed to be a French farmer from a village in Brittany in a previous life. I researched the place, and found buildings and places that I had described. Except in Paris (School trip), I had never been to France.

Today, I think that something can be in the reincarnation, but one has too little information to be able to pronounce for or against. A rejection based on the Bible, without factual arguments, I think is wrong.

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The Bible tells us that absent from the body is --for the born-again believer -- to be present with the Lord. Non-believers will wait until later for final judgment -- That leaves no place for reincarnation to take place.

 

A 3 yr old has a fantastic imagination. They have stories read to them and can imagine they are there. It's real to Them.

 

The Wicca person that you met -- that sort of 'says it all'.

 

Apparently you don't have Bible as your authority.

 

Someone who is involved with Wicca -- the dark side of the supernatural -- is really communicating with Evil. The Evil one is the greatest deceiver that mankind will ever encounter.

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Being a recent believer in reincarnation I find this a fascinating question. The word ‘Reincarnation’ is not written in the Bible, but I think that in some parts we can debate that this is what is meant. For example 1 Corinthians 15:51 ‘We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed.’ Or that which is written in Matthew 11: 13-14, for all of the Prophets and the law have prophesied until john, and if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who was to come.’ And further more in Job 14., ‘till my change comes’

There are many places we can find verses like these, but as with all scripture, it is debatable either way.

 

The verses you have quoted have no connection to reincarnation. The reference to 1 Cor 15:51 indicates that all the Christians who are alive at the Rapture will be transformed ("changed"), and acquire glorious, immortal bodies. As to John the Baptizer coming in the spirit and power of Elijah, that was an allusion to the resemblance between those two prophets. John himself emphatically denied that he was Elijah or the Christ. So reincarnation is rooted in Eastern religions but has no support in the Bible (which is the Word of God). As Scripture says "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" (Heb 9:27).

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I don't believe in reincarnation. God never gave any indication that he would allow some people die and come back in another life. There is also the question of how someone would be able to confirm that they had lived in a previous life. What are the indicators to validate this happening? People have always been saying that they believe it has happened to them but other than reports of some vague happenings, they have not been able to offer sufficient proof to substantiate their claim.

 

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I don't have much belief in reincarnation but I know that Christians have high belief in that because that is how Christ came back to life after he had been crucified on the cross. I think it differs with each religion.

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I don't have much belief in reincarnation but I know that Christians have high belief in that because that is how Christ came back to life after he had been crucified on the cross. I think it differs with each religion.
Reincarnation and resurrection are two completely different things.
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