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Lucian Hodoboc

Immortality, consciousness and machines

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Several billionaires are currently funding scientific projects to develop the transfer of human consciousness into silicon-based brains. A Russian project promises that humans will achieve immortality in this way by 2045. Do you think this is possible? Will science ever make humans immortal, even if not in our flesh bodies, but rather through another means of preserving consciousness?

 

http://2045.com

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So that's been the actual goal of Ai all along, eternal life. Interesting!

 

That's the second time this week I've been taken a little bit by surprise by our atheist friends, first by Stephen Hawking's musing that matter may have indeed come into existence ex nihilo (of course, he means that it did so spontaneously, IOW, w/o purpose or design ... OR a Creator), and now this, an atheist belief that humans have souls (of some sort or another). Wow!

 

I suppose I can understand both trains of thought from the minds of the lost, who are w/o God and w/o hope in this world.

 

Lucian, even if the Lord ordained/allowed such a thing to happen and these folks succeed in preserving their souls/consciousnesses in an artificial mind, their bodies will still be resurrected and their minds/souls reunited with their bodies to stand in judgment before God at the Great White Throne. Then they will be cast body, mind and soul into the Lake of Fire (with the devil, the beast and the false prophet) because of their deeds, and because they neither knew nor believed/trusted in God or in His Son .. i.e. Revelation 20:7-15).

 

Just to do a little "musing" of my own here, even if they were able to fool God and escape the Judgment somehow, they'd still face the end of their existence in short order because the heavens and earth of this present age (you know, the one that they are hoping to remain a part of forever), will "pass away" (2 Peter 3:10), and God will create a new heaven & earth to replace them (i.e. Revelation 21:1-2).

 

There is but One answer to overcoming sin and death, and the transferal of one's mind/soul into a silicon brain is clearly not it ;)

 

Yours and His,

David

 

"Heaven and earth will pass away, but

My words will not pass away"

Matthew 24:35

 

Edited by David Lee
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Jesus said in John 3 that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which born of the Spirit is spirit. Those who think they can preserve consciousness don't have a clue as to where it originates, since they assume it comes from flesh to be transferable to another material body.

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The problem is that if you copy my thought patterns, personality, and memory into a machine, the machine is still not me. I continue to exist outside the machine, and its existence is independent of mine. In computer terms it's like copying a file.

 

In the best case I would probably view such a machine as a child or pet to be taught about the world and left to make its own mistakes and find its own path. Whether or not such a machine could be truly sapient or have a soul, is far beyond me although I am sure God has a plan for it, and that's no excuse to treat it poorly. If the machine did have a soul, it would have its own soul and at judgement it would be accountable for its own actions as I, probably passed away long before, would be accountable for mine.

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Immortality-Only God can give life, and only He can take it away. He is, in fact, the One and True Source of all immortal, eternal life....

 

Consciousness-We receive our breath of life, and our continued consciousness, from Him alone....

 

Machines-Machines can be used as blessings from Him above. He gave us this intelligence....

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This is truly something that they are striving for, and the website that explains the whole thing is simply named 2045. Basically, they plan on being able to make someone that lives in an avatar, similar to the one in the movie "Avatar".

The first step is to make the robot body, and have that functional, and then the second step would be to start transferring a human brain into the avatar body when your own body becomes to old to be functional. Once that is accomplished, they could probably just transfer the brain from one robot to another as necessary, providing they can keep the brain functional.

The third step is where it would be like in the movie, and just your personality goes into the avatar/robot. And finally, you would just become some kind of a hologram person (not that this could actually still be considered a person by this point).

Here is the picture from the website that explains the whole plan.

 

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This is truly something that they are striving for, and the website that explains the whole thing is simply named 2045. Basically, they plan on being able to make someone that lives in an avatar, similar to the one in the movie "Avatar".

The first step is to make the robot body, and have that functional, and then the second step would be to start transferring a human brain into the avatar body when your own body becomes to old to be functional. Once that is accomplished, they could probably just transfer the brain from one robot to another as necessary, providing they can keep the brain functional.

The third step is where it would be like in the movie, and just your personality goes into the avatar/robot. And finally, you would just become some kind of a hologram person (not that this could actually still be considered a person by this point).

Here is the picture from the website that explains the whole plan.

 

Yeah. Personally, I think that the first step is doable. Moving the human brain into an artificially-made body could be doable in the next 50 years.

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The first step is to make the robot body, and have that functional, and then the second step would be to start transferring a human brain into the avatar body when your own body becomes to old to be functional.
They seem to have forgotten that in many cases the brain fails long before the body does. Is this really going to be a way to make sure that some poor dementia sufferer does not get to pass on? Without glucose and the body as a life support machine how is the brain going to make more cells? More importantly we can't provide feedback stimulus for prosthetic limbs yet, so the brain would be in constant sensory deprivation, which must be close to hell (and is banned by the Geneva Convention). Brains into machines have been a staple of science fiction for years, but there's a reason they have stayed that way.

 

Sometimes scientists need to ask not whether they could, but whether they should.

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They seem to have forgotten that in many cases the brain fails long before the body does. Is this really going to be a way to make sure that some poor dementia sufferer does not get to pass on? Without glucose and the body as a life support machine how is the brain going to make more cells? More importantly we can't provide feedback stimulus for prosthetic limbs yet, so the brain would be in constant sensory deprivation, which must be close to hell (and is banned by the Geneva Convention). Brains into machines have been a staple of science fiction for years, but there's a reason they have stayed that way.

 

Sometimes scientists need to ask not whether they could, but whether they should.

 

They reason why the brain cells get destroyed in the first place is the fact that external factors (alcohol, drugs etc.) influence the body. Without a body to be influenced by these factors, the brain cells will survive for much longer. Of course, nothing is immortal, but they are hoping to increase lifespan up to several hundred years.

 

 

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It's not going to be possible for science to make humans immortal. The scientists are going to keep trying but to make a persons consciousness continuously live is not what can happen. That's like going against nature and God which cannot stand.

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It's not going to be possible for science to make humans immortal. The scientists are going to keep trying but to make a persons consciousness continuously live is not what can happen. That's like going against nature and God which cannot stand.

 

Aren't organ transplants against nature too? What about computers?

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Aren't organ transplants against nature too? What about computers?

 

When you say organ transplant does that mean the organ won't die on the long run. So far the scientist have been trying is it not time they make a cell not to die, I am not talking of an entire being.

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Several billionaires are currently funding scientific projects to develop the transfer of human consciousness into silicon-based brains. A Russian project promises that humans will achieve immortality in this way by 2045. Do you think this is possible? Will science ever make humans immortal, even if not in our flesh bodies, but rather through another means of preserving consciousness?

 

http://2045.com

 

That's no way possible, what they will create are not humans. Just advanced machines which will never reach the intellectual level of God's creation.

This is what the word calls" man's wisdom which is foolishness compared to God's wisdom

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This is truly something that they are striving for, and the website that explains the whole thing is simply named 2045. Basically, they plan on being able to make someone that lives in an avatar, similar to the one in the movie "Avatar".

The first step is to make the robot body, and have that functional, and then the second step would be to start transferring a human brain into the avatar body when your own body becomes to old to be functional. Once that is accomplished, they could probably just transfer the brain from one robot to another as necessary, providing they can keep the brain functional.

The third step is where it would be like in the movie, and just your personality goes into the avatar/robot. And finally, you would just become some kind of a hologram person (not that this could actually still be considered a person by this point).

Here is the picture from the website that explains the whole plan.

 

This is creepier than stem cell research. I believe life can be prolonged, but immortality is impossible. I mean, why would I want to be a hologram? Then again, Science have made breakthrough discoveries throughout the years. Some futuristic things we saw from movies before are existing now.

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So far as I know, the brain does not come thoughtfully provided with a USB port, nor with Windows compatible firmware.

 

To quote a biologist: "We know almost nothing about the brain, and what we do know is wrong." (Professor Steve Jones)

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So far as I know, the brain does not come thoughtfully provided with a USB port, nor with Windows compatible firmware.

 

To quote a biologist: "We know almost nothing about the brain, and what we do know is wrong." (Professor Steve Jones)

 

Thoughts as proprietary software, and the process of thinking available to those who buy licenses? That is horrifying. (How long until the Linux version?). We've had enough fun trying to stop companies who want to patent DNA and claim they own people naturally born with that pattern.

 

The other thing that people forget is that the brain isn't just electric signals. As people grow and learn the material that makes up their brain changes, carving new channels and making new connections. A machine can't do this, its hardware is fixed and upgraded within known parameters, which is why at best it would be a snapshot. Its decision-making ability may acquire more data to make decisions with, but its ability to predict long term outcomes wouldn't improve past the point where the snapshot of the brain was taken, because it could still only put that new data down existing paths.

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Thoughts as proprietary software, and the process of thinking available to those who buy licenses? That is horrifying. (How long until the Linux version?). We've had enough fun trying to stop companies who want to patent DNA and claim they own people naturally born with that pattern.

 

The other thing that people forget is that the brain isn't just electric signals. As people grow and learn the material that makes up their brain changes, carving new channels and making new connections. A machine can't do this, its hardware is fixed and upgraded within known parameters, which is why at best it would be a snapshot. Its decision-making ability may acquire more data to make decisions with, but its ability to predict long term outcomes wouldn't improve past the point where the snapshot of the brain was taken, because it could still only put that new data down existing paths.

 

Great point

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Thoughts as proprietary software, and the process of thinking available to those who buy licenses? That is horrifying. (How long until the Linux version?). We've had enough fun trying to stop companies who want to patent DNA and claim they own people naturally born with that pattern.

 

Fortunately, if such a thing even existed, rights in the firmware would belong to the hardware manufacturer, who is.......

 

 

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The human body, the vessel, that holds our Spirit and our Soul is designed by God. It's complicated, intricate and perfect by design. Science has a while to go to figuring how the brain works, let alone how thoughts and consciousness even exist. Electrical pulses and data are essential, but thought, how those electrical pulses do what they do and what they mean is something that can only be perceived by the brain. So what if you get to record every single bit of data stored in the brain, storage isn't everything.

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