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PiousPete

Jesus or Paul , Who to Follow?

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Paul remains extremely influencial amongst Christians today but there are places where the message he delivers differs from truths uttered by Jesus. When this happens who do we follow?

 

Paul says:

[
4
] For Christ is the end of
the law
, that every one who has faith may be justified.

 

Jesus says:

[
17
] Think not that I have come to abolish
the law
and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.

[
18
] For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from
the law
until all is accomplished.

 

 

Paul says:

[17] Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching;

[18] for the scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain," and, "The laborer deserves his wages.

[
11
] If we have sown spiritual good among you, is it too much if we reap your material benefits?

[
12
] If others share this rightful claim upon you, do not we still more?

 

Jesus says:

[
7
] And preach as you go, saying, `The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

[
8
] Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying, give without pay.

 

Paul says:

[
23
] and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for
adoption
as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

[
5
] to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive
adoption
as sons.

 

Jesus says:

John.3

[3] Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is begotten from above,* he cannot see the kingdom of God.

[6] That which is begotten of the flesh is flesh, and that which is begotten of the Spirit is spirit.

[7] Do not marvel that I said to you, `You must be begotten from above.*

 

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Paul says:

[17] Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching;

[18] for the scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain," and, "The laborer deserves his wages.

The statement "The laborer deserves his wages" is a quote from Jesus, in Luke 10:7. By selecting the proper quotes from Jesus and Paul you can make it appear that they contradict each other but if you studly everything they said you will find that they are in agreement. You cannot truly follow one without following the other.

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Paul remains extremely influencial amongst Christians today but there are places where the message he delivers differs from truths uttered by Jesus. When this happens who do we follow?

 

Paul says:

[
4
] For Christ is the end of
the law
, that every one who has faith may be justified.

 

Jesus says:

[
17
] Think not that I have come to abolish
the law
and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.

[
18
] For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from
the law
until all is accomplished.

 

 

Paul says:

[17] Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching;

[18] for the scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain," and, "The laborer deserves his wages.

[
11
] If we have sown spiritual good among you, is it too much if we reap your material benefits?

[
12
] If others share this rightful claim upon you, do not we still more?

 

Jesus says:

[
7
] And preach as you go, saying, `The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

[
8
] Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying, give without pay.

 

Paul says:

[
23
] and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for
adoption
as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

[
5
] to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive
adoption
as sons.

 

Jesus says:

John.3

[3] Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is begotten from above,* he cannot see the kingdom of God.

[6] That which is begotten of the flesh is flesh, and that which is begotten of the Spirit is spirit.

[7] Do not marvel that I said to you, `You must be begotten from above.*

Nothing you have quoted here from Paul contradicts anything Jesus taught, if anything it clarifies and builds on Jesus' teachings. That was the sole purpose of Paul's ministry.

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I'm not sure it's a clear as that. Paul is a massive contributor to modern day Christianity and wrote in a style that requires large amounts of interpretation, due to the limited amount of direct speech from Jesus in the Bible Paul's writings have been put in the forefront for the majority of Christians.

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I'm not sure it's a clear as that. Paul is a massive contributor to modern day Christianity and wrote in a style that requires large amounts of interpretation, due to the limited amount of direct speech from Jesus in the Bible Paul's writings have been put in the forefront for the majority of Christians.

 

It can be sometimes difficult to hear the questions Paul is answering in his letters.

 

Do you think that the majority of Christians placing Paul's writings in the forefront has a lot to do with their intended audience. Paul was addressed Gentiles. I have found nothing contradictory between Jesus' and Paul's writings. I also believe that Paul is our first theologian in the Bible from whence all other theologians follow. What I will suggest is that many heretics tend to contradict or "butt heads" with Paul's writings.

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It can be sometimes difficult to hear the questions Paul is answering in his letters.

 

Do you think that the majority of Christians placing Paul's writings in the forefront has a lot to do with their intended audience, Paul's having addressed Gentiles? I have found nothing contradictory between Jesus' and Paul's writings. If anything I find Paul's writings are full of allusions to the OT, but then again so are John's, John's writings are usually multi layered, having multiple meanings which tends to distinguish them from the writings of Matthew, Mark, and Luke. I also believe that Paul is our first theologian in the Bible from whence all other theologians follow. What I will suggest is that many heretics tend to contradict or "butt heads" with Paul's writings. To them I suggest asking does this align or agree with Paul's approach to Scripture before placing pen to paper.

 

As far as we are concerned Paul is the first theologian because we place him as such. Also what exactly is a heretic as far Christians are concerned, with so many factions and official streams of churches it is difficult to know what is canon and what isn't. This is the problem that Paul presents.

 

Paul says:

[
28
] And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third, teachers,

[
11
] And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and
teacher
s,

[
7
] For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a
teacher
of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

[
11
] For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and
teacher
,

Jesus says:

Matt.23

[8] But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren.

 

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GINOLJC, 1 Corinthians 11:1 "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ" well that answers that. Knotical IS CORRECT, for the apostle Paul is an ambassador for christ. no ambassador speaks his, or her own mind, but the King or government that sends them.

May God bless.

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As far as we are concerned Paul is the first theologian because we place him as such. Also what exactly is a heretic as far Christians are concerned, with so many factions and official streams of churches it is difficult to know what is canon and what isn't. This is the problem that Paul presents.

 

Paul says:

[
28
] And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third, teachers,

[
11
] And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and
teacher
s,

[
7
] For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a
teacher
of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

[
11
] For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and
teacher
,

Jesus says:

Matt.23

[8] But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren.

 

Hello PiousPete

I do not see a conflict here . What I do see is that Paul and Jesus are talking about two completely different subjects. Jesus is referring to whom has authority, over one another in what is becoming the Church. That authority is God . Now Paul is talking about positions within The Body of Christ. Not who has authority within The Church . No one is more important than the other . It is that each has a different function i.e. teachers or apostles .

Anyone can zero in on a few lines of scripture here and there and draw a incorrect conclusion . We can not do that . What is needed is to look at the whole of Scripture ,taking into consideration the audience and context of any passages of scripture before we dare to form our opinions. .

Blessings

Bill

Edited by Laish
Fat fingers
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