The Protestant theological system of John Calvin and his successors, which develops Luther's doctrine of justification by faith alone and emphasizes the grace of God and the doctrine of predestination.

John 3:16 and Calvinisim.

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  • John 3:16 and Calvinisim.

    John 3:16 for God so loved the world that he gave His only beggoten son that whosoever bliveith on him shall not perish but have everlasting life.
    Now if John 3:16 tells us Christ attonment is for everyone in the world than calvinist are in error. But what of that word " world"? "world" is translated from the Greek word cosmos. Cosmos has 8 defintions, one of which means all nationalities, attonment is not limited to Jews. When we take a look at the doctrine of limited attonment as God's word shows us what the meaning of "world" or cosmos is. The Bible would have contradiction if "world" meant every single person. It would also make the workings of our truine God less effective than the unfailing, maximumly effective work they truely are. Christ attonment never fails. NEVER! And when we come to understand limited attonment and read God's word we see how perfect and unstoppable the our Lord is.

    May Christ be strong in you and lead you always. God bless and have a nice day. 😊
    Last edited by Innerfire89; 07-15-2017, 06:42 PM.

  • #2
    The world is the people that God created and that He provided salvation For. Who So Ever would mean just that.

    Calvin was a human being as is every one else. It's God's Word we're talking about not 'Calvins' Word' :)
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    • #3
      Originally posted by Innerfire89 View Post
      John 3:16 for God so loved the world that he gave His only beggoten son that whosoever bliveith on him shall not perish but have everlasting life.
      Now if John 3:16 tells us Christ attonment is for everyone in the world than calvinist are in error. But what of that word " world"? "world" is translated from the Greek word cosmos. Cosmos has 8 defintions, one of which means all nationalities, attonment is not limited to Jews. When we take a look at the doctrine of limited attonment as God's word shows us what the meaning of "world" or cosmos is. The Bible would have contradiction if "world" meant every single person. It would also make the workings of our truine God less effective than the unfailing, maximumly effective work they truely are. Christ attonment never fails. NEVER! And when we come to understand limited attonment and read God's word we see how perfect and unstoppable the our Lord is.

      May Christ be strong in you and lead you always. God bless and have a nice day. 😊
      Couldn't agree more, brother.

      God bless,
      William
      Comment>

      • #4
        Originally posted by Sue D. View Post
        Calvin was a human being as is every one else. It's God's Word we're talking about not 'Calvins' Word' :)
        I really wish you would quit saying such things in the Calvinism section of the forum. When you do so you redirect the focus from the topic at hand and distract from it. We are studying the word of God, however, we are carefully handling what the word conveys and means. And we do so here through the corrective lens of Calvinism.

        I know of none who follow Calvin rather than Christ, but I am willing to bet that every Calvinist is a Calvinist because they believe Calvinism is the best way to present and teach the Gospel. As far as John Calvin being gifted, I believe the man is the "king of exegesis".

        John 3:16 by John Calvin:

        "For God so loved the world. Christ opens up the first cause, and, as it were, the source of our salvation, and he does so, that no doubt may remain; for our minds cannot find calm repose, until we arrive at the unmerited love of God. As the whole matter of our salvation must not be sought any where else than in Christ, so we must see whence Christ came to us, and why he was offered to be our Savior. Both points are distinctly stated to us: namely, that faith in Christ brings life to all, and that Christ brought life, because the Heavenly Father loves the human race, and wishes that they should not perish. And this order ought to be carefully observed; for such is the wicked ambition which belongs to our nature, that when the question relates to the origin of our salvation, we quickly form diabolical imaginations about our own merits. Accordingly, we imagine that God is reconciled to us, because he has reckoned us worthy that he should look upon us. But Scripture everywhere extols his pure and unmingled mercy, which sets aside all merits.

        And the words of Christ mean nothing else, when he declares the cause to be in the love of God. For if we wish to ascend higher, the Spirit shuts the door by the mouth of Paul, when he informs us that this love was founded on the purpose of his will, (Eph 1:5.) And, indeed, it is very evident that Christ spoke in this manner, in order to draw away men from the contemplation of themselves to look at the mercy of God alone. Nor does he say that God was moved to deliver us, because he perceived in us something that was worthy of so excellent a blessing, but ascribes the glory of our deliverance entirely to his love. And this is still more clear from what follows; for he adds, that God gave his Son to men, that they may not perish. Hence it follows that, until Christ bestow his aid in rescuing the lost, all are destined to eternal destruction. This is also demonstrated by Paul from a consideration of the time; for he loved us while we were still enemies by sin, (Rom 5:8.)

        And, indeed, where sin reigns, we shall find nothing but the wrath of God, which draws death along with it. It is mercy, therefore, that reconciles us to God, that he may likewise restore us to life. This mode of expression, however, may appear to be at variance with many passages of Scripture, which lay in Christ the first foundation of the love of God to us, and show that out of him we are hated by God. But we ought to remember — what I have already stated — that the secret love with which the Heavenly Father loved us in himself is higher than all other causes; but that the grace which he wishes to be made known to us, and by which we are excited to the hope of salvation, commences with the reconciliation which was procured through Christ. For since he necessarily hates sin, how shall we believe that we are loved by him, until atonement has been made for those sins on account of which he is justly offended at us? Thus, the love of Christ must intervene for the purpose of reconciling God to us, before we have any experience of his fatherly kindness. But as we are first informed that God, because he loved us, gave his Son to die for us, so it is immediately added, that it is Christ alone on whom, strictly speaking, faith ought to look.

        He gave his only-begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him may not perish. This, he says, is the proper look of faith, to be fixed on Christ, in whom it beholds the breast of God filled with love: this is a firm and enduring support, to rely on the death of Christ as the only pledge of that love. The word only-begotten is emphatic, (ἐμφατικὸν) to magnify the fervor of the love of God towards us. For as men are not easily convinced that God loves them, in order to remove all doubt, he has expressly stated that we are so very dear to God that, on our account, he did not even spare his only-begotten Son. Since, therefore, God has most abundantly testified his love towards us, whoever is not satisfied with this testimony, and still remains in doubt, offers a high insult to Christ, as if he had been an ordinary man given up at random to death. But we ought rather to consider that, in proportion to the estimation in which God holds his only-begotten Son, so much the more precious did our salvation appear to him, for the ransom of which he chose that his only-begotten Son should die. To this name Christ has a right, because he is by nature the only Son of God; and he communicates this honor to us by adoption, when we are engrafted into his body.

        That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found inthe world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life.

        Let us remember, on the other hand, that while life is promised universally to all who believe in Christ, still faith is not common to all. For Christ is made known and held out to the view of all, but the elect alone are they whose eyes God opens, that they may seek him by faith. Here, too, is displayed a wonderful effect of faith; for by it we receive Christ such as he is given to us by the Father — that is, as having freed us from the condemnation of eternal death, and made us heirs of eternal life, because, by the sacrifice of his death, he has atoned for our sins, that nothing may prevent God from acknowledging us as his sons. Since, therefore, faith embraces Christ, with the efficacy of his death and the fruit of his resurrection, we need not wonder if by it we obtain likewise the life of Christ.

        Still it is not yet very evident why and how faith bestows life upon us. Is it because Christ renews us by his Spirit, that the righteousness of God may live and be vigorous in us; or is it because, having been cleansed by his blood, we are accounted righteous before God by a free pardon? It is indeed certain, that these two things are always joined together; but as the certainty of salvation is the subject now in hand, we ought chiefly to hold by this reason, that we live, because God loves us freely by not imputing to us our sins. For this reason sacrifice is expressly mentioned, by which, together with sins, the curse and death are destroyed. I have already explained the object of these two clauses, which is, to inform us that in Christ we regain the possession of life, of which we are destitute in ourselves; for in this wretched condition of mankind, redemption, in the order of time, goes before salvation."

        God bless,
        William
        Comment>

        • #5
          I found this thread listed under "New Topics" under the Activities' heading. Just like one of the other topics about Calvinism. I was Not looking under the Calvin section of the Forum. This Is a Forum for discussion and debate?! Debate would suggest that there's a different view of a given subject. Right?! The subject at hand is John 3:16.
          Comment>

          • #6
            Originally posted by Sue D. View Post
            I found this thread listed under "New Topics" under the Activities' heading. Just like one of the other topics about Calvinism. I was Not looking under the Calvin section of the Forum. This Is a Forum for discussion and debate?! Debate would suggest that there's a different view of a given subject. Right?! The subject at hand is John 3:16.
            Under new topics I still see the correct board listed, and also there is a bread crumb right in front of you on each page that tells you where you're on the board.

            Click image for larger version  Name:	Breadcrumb.jpg Views:	1 Size:	49.6 KB ID:	44058

            The OP has to do with "correct exegesis" or "interpretation" of John 3:16, do you agree with it or disagree with it? Please do not respond to OP Titles, but read the actual post and address its content.

            And when you respond, please quote the person that you're responding to. Your post leave me guessing as to who you are addressing and what points.

            God bless,
            William
            Comment>

            • #7
              Originally posted by William View Post

              Under new topics I still see the correct board listed, and also there is a bread crumb right in front of you on each page that tells you where you're on the board.

              Click image for larger version Name:	Breadcrumb.jpg Views:	1 Size:	49.6 KB ID:	44058

              The OP has to do with "correct exegesis" or "interpretation" of John 3:16, do you agree with it or disagree with it? Please do not respond to OP Titles, but read the actual post and address its content.

              And when you respond, please quote the person that you're responding to. Your post leave me guessing as to who you are addressing and what points.

              God bless,
              William


              Thanks for pointing that out -- I'm really Not trying to be a 'problem'.
              Comment>

              • #8
                Originally posted by Sue D. View Post
                I found this thread listed under "New Topics" under the Activities' heading.
                I did away with the New Topics link and only have a Today's Posts page.

                The page should now show which forum topics are under. There was a problem with it not displaying in small screen resolutions.

                Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

                Click image for larger version

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                God bless,
                William
                Comment>

                • #9
                  I still have "Todays' Topics" but not Today's Posts.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sue D. View Post
                    I still have "Todays' Topics" but not Today's Posts.
                    And can you now see the forum category which posts reside in like the screen shot?

                    William
                    Comment>

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by William View Post

                      And can you now see the forum category which posts reside in like the screen shot?

                      William
                      Sure can -- way over to the right. :)
                      Comment>

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sue D. View Post
                        The world is the people that God created and that He provided salvation For. Who So Ever would mean just that.

                        Calvin was a human being as is every one else. It's God's Word we're talking about not 'Calvins' Word' :)
                        Sissy, one of God's attributes is His immutability. In others words, He changes not. Now, if He loves everyone the same, then turns around and pours His divine wrath upon His objects of love, He is no longer immutabile.

                        Read Romans 9. There are objects of wrath and love. The objects of love are from the same lump the objects of wrath are in. This is divine election at its finest.
                        Comment>

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SovereignGrace View Post

                          Sissy, one of God's attributes is His immutability. In others words, He changes not. Now, if He loves everyone the same, then turns around and pours His divine wrath upon His objects of love, He is no longer immutabile.

                          Read Romans 9. There are objects of wrath and love. The objects of love are from the same lump the objects of wrath are in. This is divine election at its finest.


                          A powerful chapter in a powerful book of doctrine -- ya don't hear a lot of doctrine taught these days. God chose to harden Pharoah's heart in order to show God's power. I don't know as I'd call it election, but definitely that God is in charge -- the world-wide flood -- Judas betraying Jesus to the Roman soldiers.
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                          • #14
                            It's best to think of limited attonment as salvation is a compleated work, everyone Christ died for has salvation.
                            Limited attonment is some times referred to as definite attonment or intended attonment. In other words attonment is the finished work for who it was intended for. Attonment isn't just a possibility but instead its a job done flawlessly.
                            The problems of universal attonment is that sin would be punished twice if Christ was a substitute for those that would be punished or no one would be punished because there would be nothing to be punished for.
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