The Protestant theological system of John Calvin and his successors, which develops Luther's doctrine of justification by faith alone and emphasizes the grace of God and the doctrine of predestination.

I think I understand your position. Or do I??

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  • I think I understand your position. Or do I??

    One issue I have with this position is that a person has little or nothing to do with accepting tp become a follower of Jesus. Am I right?


    justme

  • #2
    Originally posted by justme View Post
    One issue I have with this position is that a person has little or nothing to do with accepting tp become a follower of Jesus. Am I right?


    justme
    G'day justme

    Accepting of what or who? The main difference between Reformed/Calvinism is that Regeneration precedes faith. Most Arminians believe, for example, that God looked down through the corridors of time and "foreknew" those that would accept or choose him. That is, based on some goodness in man Isaiah 64:6; Romans 3:9-11.

    On the other hand, lemme give you two articles, short to read, so that you can better understand the position of Reformed/Calvinist Soteriology:
    To answer your question more directly, frankly, to "accept" the Sovereign Lord sounds ludicrous. Who are we that we "accept" the Almighty! We "receive" the gift of Salvation, the Monergistic work of God alone. We add nothing to our salvation. All of it is done for us. To accept insinuates that we ourselves have the ability to "choose" God when we were dead in sin. You were not drowning in an ocean, you were dead floating at the bottom as a corpse when God raised you up and breathed life into you. Anything less implies something of your own doing in the work of salvation (synergism). God puts into us the "desire" for Him that we did not have beforehand, and we are then drawn to Christ Jesus by effectual Grace.

    A man cannot "see" "enter" (John 3) nor even "draw close" (John 6) to the object of our faith - Christ Jesus without being Regenerated. Ephesians 2:5 gives the timing of such regeneration, when we were dead in sin, dead men cannot do anything - they can't act (accept or choose). They are made altogether alive through Regeneration. Ephesians 2:8 again emphasizes this point. "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God," - "For by Grace you have saved" ask yourself what of faith? "And this is not your own doing.....

    Soli Deo Gloria!

    God bless,
    William
    Comment>

    • #3
      Originally posted by justme View Post
      One issue I have with this position is that a person has little or nothing to do with accepting to become a follower of Jesus. Am I right?
      justme
      An interesting question. Sort of yes AND no.

      Some questions to think about:
      Did God ask Abram if he wanted to leave his home and family and serve the true God, or tell him?
      Did God invite Saul on the road to Damascus to think things over for a couple days and decide if he was interested in becoming Paul, an Apostle of Christ, or did God choose him and tell him?
      When God summoned Lazarus from the grave, did Lazarus have the option of saying 'no'?

      If you conclude, as I have, that Abram had no choice, Saul had no choice and Lazarus had no choice ... that in all three cases, God called and man simply obeyed because that is the nature of the relationship between God (the creator) and man (the creation) ... then ask yourself this: Was Abraham better off or worse off for following God? Was Paul grateful for his new life, or did he miss the old one? Do you think Lazarus woke from death and wished God had left him dead, or was delighted to see Jesus and his family?

      Now let's get personal.
      We were dead in our sins.
      We were enemies of God.
      All of our thoughts were evil.
      All of our best efforts were like filthy rags.
      Left to our own free will, all of us (you, me, William) would have chosen death and damnation. Our nature would allow us to make no other choice.

      Do you resent God for stepping in and doing something about it?
      God raised us from death, freed us to finally be ABLE to choose life or death (rather than to only choose death), and created in us a desire to choose life.
      The critical issue is that God did not raise us from the dead BECAUSE we chose life, we were incapable of choosing life. God raised us from the dead BECAUSE GOD LOVED US ... not everyone, us ... you, me, william, origen, all of those specific individuals that God has raised from the dead.

      After we are loved, chosen, and raised (saved) ... and in that order ... then we are made free to choose God and to do the things God prepared for us to do.
      So there is acceptance, it just comes after salvation and not before (since before salvation, we had already chosen to reject God).
      Comment>

      • #4
        Originally posted by atpollard View Post
        If you conclude, as I have, that Abram had no choice, Saul had no choice and Lazarus had no choice ... that in all three cases, God called and man simply obeyed because that is the nature of the relationship between God (the creator) and man (the creation) ... then ask yourself this: Was Abraham better off or worse off for following God? Was Paul grateful for his new life, or did he miss the old one? Do you think Lazarus woke from death and wished God had left him dead, or was delighted to see Jesus and his family?
        Saw a cute meme today and thought about this!


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        • #5
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