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Please Pray for My Discernment

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  • Please Pray for My Discernment

    Hi.

    I would appreciate your prayers. I'm thinking about leaving my local Lutheran church and going back to the Baptist church of my upbringing. If faith is the key, as I believe it is, then I don't see how the Baptists ( who were right in teaching me this) could be wrong in some of the other things they teach, such as the Age of Accountability, Biblical infallibility, soul responsibility and everything else. Please pray for me.

  • #2
    Originally posted by ConfessionalLutheran View Post
    Hi.

    I would appreciate your prayers. I'm thinking about leaving my local Lutheran church and going back to the Baptist church of my upbringing. If faith is the key, as I believe it is, then I don't see how the Baptists ( who were right in teaching me this) could be wrong in some of the other things they teach, such as the Age of Accountability, Biblical infallibility, soul responsibility and everything else. Please pray for me.
    Praying for your discernment ConfessionalLutheran.

    But on the subjects of your concern, faith is the key, but the majority of our debates seemingly center on whether faith is enabled by God through regeneration (monergism) or whether it is man's own doing. As far as any age of accountability (which I never get a straight answer as to the age), I can only imagine that this is being addressed from the baptist view of baptism (you do a wonderful job at teaching people on this subject). No doubt we are all held accountable, and as we grow in faith, knowledge, understanding, and spiritual wisdom so does our accountability and responsibility. Are we not judged according to the truth we reject or affirm?

    I'd also like to turn you towards a great debate between an Orthodox Presbyterian and a Reformed Baptist, though both are Calvinist, the center of contention is the Particular baptist's leaning of the baptist's opposition towards Paedo, Covenant, and Household baptism:



    I can't imagine you going back to the "Baptist church", there are too many discrepancies, and mainly, they center around Arminianism and Dispensationalism. You may also be interested in knowing that John Calvin married an Ana-baptist. She was later converted to Presbyterianism. I can only imagine the debates that surfaced in the Calvin household.

    God bless,
    William
    Comment>

    • #3
      Originally posted by William View Post

      Praying for your discernment ConfessionalLutheran.

      But on the subjects of your concern, faith is the key, but the majority of our debates seemingly center on whether faith is enabled by God through regeneration (monergism) or whether it is man's own doing. As far as any age of accountability (which I never get a straight answer as to the age), I can only imagine that this is being addressed from the baptist view of baptism (you do a wonderful job at teaching people on this subject). No doubt we are all held accountable, and as we grow in faith, knowledge, understanding, and spiritual wisdom so does our accountability and responsibility. Are we not judged according to the truth we reject or affirm?

      I'd also like to turn you towards a great debate between an Orthodox Presbyterian and a Reformed Baptist, though both are Calvinist, the center of contention is the Particular baptist's leaning of the baptist's opposition towards Paedo, Covenant, and Household baptism:



      I can't imagine you going back to the "Baptist church", there are too many discrepancies, and mainly, they center around Arminianism and Dispensationalism. You may also be interested in knowing that John Calvin married an Ana-baptist. She was later converted to Presbyterianism. I can only imagine the debates that surfaced in the Calvin household.

      God bless,
      William
      What an absorbing debate this is! Thank you so much for sharing this. :) I think I might have to pull a " Berean" and search the Scriptures myself regarding these questions. I'd say the " Age of Accountability" would begin around age ten, when people begin to understand that their actions have consequences. I adhere to the monergistic view of faith. God does all the work in the heart of the believer. We are indeed judged according to the truths we accept or reject, but it is the Holy Spirit Who opens our hearts to such truths. I'll be attending church with my mother this coming Sunday ( already arranged) and we shall see how things go. John Calvin and an Anabaptist lady? One can only imagine the debates at the supper table.
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      • #4
        Originally posted by ConfessionalLutheran View Post

        What an absorbing debate this is! Thank you so much for sharing this. :) I think I might have to pull a " Berean" and search the Scriptures myself regarding these questions. I'd say the " Age of Accountability" would begin around age ten, when people begin to understand that their actions have consequences. I adhere to the monergistic view of faith. God does all the work in the heart of the believer. We are indeed judged according to the truths we accept or reject, but it is the Holy Spirit Who opens our hearts to such truths. I'll be attending church with my mother this coming Sunday ( already arranged) and we shall see how things go. John Calvin and an Anabaptist lady? One can only imagine the debates at the supper table.
        Enjoy your worship service this coming Sunday!

        God bless,
        William



        Comment>

        • #5
          Originally posted by William View Post

          Enjoy your worship service this coming Sunday!

          God bless,
          William


          Thanks, William! I guess I should bring a copy of the Bible with me ( been carrying one around all day today. Read the Gospel of John, Romans and 1 Corinthians) for the service. We'll see if there's any insight to glean from the preacher's sermon.
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          • #6
            I will pray that God will give you the wisdom to know which church you should attend.
            Clyde Herrin's Blog
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            • #7
              Originally posted by theophilus View Post
              I will pray that God will give you the wisdom to know which church you should attend.
              Thank you, theophilus. :) The sad thing is, this wouldn't even be an issue if there weren't some persistent rumor mongering going on. I still believe in the Lutheran Confessions, but after two years straight of whispers, innuendo and ostracism, I'm thinking I need to leave. Apparently, small churches aren't for me.
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              • #8
                My prayer for you is that you should encounter God personally and by so doing the Holy Spirit will guide you better. My strong believe is to associate with a Christian group or denomination that preaches the undiluted word of God. Saying it exactly as it is written or spoken in the Bible, doing away with man's doctrine.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by tony View Post
                  My prayer for you is that you should encounter God personally and by so doing the Holy Spirit will guide you better. My strong believe is to associate with a Christian group or denomination that preaches the undiluted word of God. Saying it exactly as it is written or spoken in the Bible, doing away with man's doctrine.
                  Thank you, Tony and amen. That might be exactly where the Lord is leading me.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ConfessionalLutheran View Post

                    Thank you, Tony and amen. That might be exactly where the Lord is leading me.
                    You are welcome. May God strengthen you and help you to serve Him better.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ConfessionalLutheran View Post

                      Thank you, theophilus. :) The sad thing is, this wouldn't even be an issue if there weren't some persistent rumor mongering going on. I still believe in the Lutheran Confessions, but after two years straight of whispers, innuendo and ostracism, I'm thinking I need to leave. Apparently, small churches aren't for me.
                      ConfessionalLutheran,

                      Are these rumors and whispers (gossip) about you? Even if not, this sounds like something that should be brought before the church. If they are about you, and they have merit, you may want to consider James 5:16 to end them. I'd definitely address the gossiping though. It kinda amuses me when it comes to congregational prayer, we are instructed not to gossip, but some use the prayer intention as a moment to voice gossip about another. For example, Mary, ya know she had sex with another outside of marriage? I'd like to ask everyone at this time to pray for her! Point being, these things need be addressed, Mary's sins, if the congregation and especially elders get wind of them, then church discipline is in order, but how that came to light may also need addressing by disciplining the congregation.

                      I don't consider my church small, but I know that one member led me to confessing my sins before our study group. I was compelled by listening to the member confess by an example. Confessing our sins is directly from the source, rather than through the prayer rumor mill.

                      Just thought to share my take on the matter with you. Though I do not know the full situation and content of the rumors, I hope that I may be of help.

                      God bless,
                      William
                      Comment>

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by William View Post

                        ConfessionalLutheran,

                        Are these rumors and whispers (gossip) about you? Even if not, this sounds like something that should be brought before the church. If they are about you, and they have merit, you may want to consider James 5:16 to end them. I'd definitely address the gossiping though. It kinda amuses me when it comes to congregational prayer, we are instructed not to gossip, but some use the prayer intention as a moment to voice gossip about another. For example, Mary, ya know she had sex with another outside of marriage? I'd like to ask everyone at this time to pray for her! Point being, these things need be addressed, Mary's sins, if the congregation and especially elders get wind of them, then church discipline is in order, but how that came to light may also need addressing by disciplining the congregation.

                        I don't consider my church small, but I know that one member led me to confessing my sins before our study group. I was compelled by listening to the member confess by an example. Confessing our sins is directly from the source, rather than through the prayer rumor mill.

                        Just thought to share my take on the matter with you. Though I do not know the full situation and content of the rumors, I hope that I may be of help.

                        God bless,
                        William
                        Yeah, William, they seem to be. It looks like my absence isn't exactly a matter of concern for anybody other than myself and the pastor, either. These rumors were kick- started by a girl half my age who assisted me in teaching a Sunday School class. Whenever there was a break in the lesson, she wanted to talk politics. She's super- liberal, she hates the South and her father serves on the Church Council. Shortly before I quit my position as a Sunday School teacher ( the kids cared nothing about the lesson, my assistant showed up when she felt like it and I was drained), I finally told her that I leaned to the right, I took the Bible very literally indeed and that I believed in the Lutheran Confessions. This was two years ago. When our new pastor was installed, once again I heard her call me a jerk. I've done nothing to her, said nothing about her. Apparently, she's been quite active in talking about me. Last Sunday, when I ushered, I got a dirty look from the person who solicited me to volunteer as an usher, the girl in question's father spoke to the president of the church council in my hearing and I felt severely uncomfortable. I emailed the president that I was going to be gone for awhile, emailed my pastor in Jacksonville that I was going to be visiting my mother's church because of some unwanted drama at Hope and spoke to our new minister. I didn't want to slink away, but tell the people affected that I was going to be gone and why I was going to be gone.

                        I contacted the people of my mother's Baptist church and have been examining the early Anabaptist- influenced Puritan movement that became known as the Baptist movement. I've been examining both sides of the debate at the Marburg Colloquy between Luther and Zwingli on the matter of the Lord's Supper and I've been examining the relevant Biblical texts. I've been keeping a journal, of all things, noting my thoughts on the subject.

                        The Lutheran congregation here is a small and aging one. The youth group is pretty small and the young woman in question was raised and confirmed in this church. She apparently keeps in contact with her peers in that group. If she was twenty two years ago, I reckon she's about twenty- two now. I haven't spoken to her since, I haven't said anything about her, nor have I sought out her company. Apparently I'm a jerk because I don't believe in gay marriage and I think that what passes for liberalism today is a sad joke. If she just kept that quiet, there would be no problem. When she interferes with my relationships on the church level by rumormongering, then I can't get anything done. Thank you for your advice, William. :)
                        Comment>

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ConfessionalLutheran View Post
                          I contacted the people of my mother's Baptist church and have been examining the early Anabaptist- influenced Puritan movement that became known as the Baptist movement. I've been examining both sides of the debate at the Marburg Colloquy between Luther and Zwingli on the matter of the Lord's Supper and I've been examining the relevant Biblical texts. I've been keeping a journal, of all things, noting my thoughts on the subject.
                          We have some great videos in the Christian History section of the board by a reputable church historian (Ryan Reeves). Just pointing you to additional information that may help you make an informed decision:

                          Unitarians, Baptists, and Quakers -Christforums
                          Puritanism -Christforums
                          Anabaptism in 16th Century Europe -Christforums

                          Curious though, what are your thoughts about the Baptist government?

                          God bless,
                          William
                          Comment>

                          • #14
                            Originally posted by William View Post

                            We have some great videos in the Christian History section of the board by a reputable church historian (Ryan Reeves). Just pointing you to additional information that may help you make an informed decision:

                            Unitarians, Baptists, and Quakers -Christforums
                            Puritanism -Christforums
                            Anabaptism in 16th Century Europe -Christforums

                            Curious though, what are your thoughts about the Baptist government?

                            God bless,
                            William
                            Baptist government is essentially congregationalism, I guess. Sometimes they affiliate and federate under a common banner, like the Southern Baptist Convention that serves an advisory role to member churches and provides an umbrella group. They believe in liberty of conscience and absolute separation of church and state. pretty much a generic Protestantism, I suppose. Thank you for the links, I'll get to them straightaway.
                            Comment>

                            • #15
                              I attended Mom's church today. The sermon was actually on point about the Church being Christians gathered together as the Body of Christ and the Bible being God's living Word. I was very gratified by the visit and I was actually interested in the contents of the sermon. Old Pastor Young at my childhood church couldn't keep his sermons that interesting.. I remember getting up several times to go to the bathroom throughout his talks. There were what are called evensong bells that were played and a violinist played " Seek ye First the Kingdom of God" during the offertory. Right after the sermon, there was a final hymn and a closing prayer. Two Scripture readings, one from the Old Testament and one from the New Testament were read. Later, we went to inquire about a Sunday School class, which I will visit next week. Thank you all for your prayers and please continue to pray for me during this time.
                              Comment>
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