How do we agree to disagree?

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  • How do we agree to disagree?

    Originally posted by Stratcat View Post
    I agree with Cornelius. If one wants to find out what someone says about a topic, ask them or read it or whatever. If one wants to know what the Bible says about that topic, read the Bible alone, without commentary or distraction.
    Or one should appeal to Scripture to check for themselves whether the things said from a commentator are true - Acts 17:11. In my opinion not enough people know how to read the Bible for themselves. A commentator can help, unless we reject the fruit of the Holy Spirit and the labors of our brethren - 1 Corinthians 12:28 - some are given the gift of teacher. Needless to say, I am not suggesting everybody is gifted as a teacher or has sound doctrine just because they write a book. Case in point, Strat, what would you say to a church or its pastor that refuses to read your book? Why even write a book, a book considered nothing more than a distraction from a congregation that claims to receive illumination from the Holy Spirit and Bible only? What if the pastor said to you that your commentary is a distraction, and that they only need know what the Bible says? Why are some Calvinist and some Arminian? Does the Holy Spirit contradict himself? Seems to me that some have an unteachable spirit, and it is frustratingly a waste of time to even attempt to approach or edify them, which makes me wonder why they are even in the body of Christ? If we want to know about the Bible we read it for ourselves, I can read it for myself word for word without interpretation. A parrot can recite Scripture and say what the Bible says.

    If you haven't noticed, your words in that other thread still sting. Why go to church, and personally, why should I invest myself and dedicate my time and efforts to a forum that stimulates discussion, debate, and dialogue if people are unteachable and refuse to learn? Why should the Holy Spirit gift certain men with the office of teacher when nobody needs them as they are counted nothing more than distractions?

    God bless,
    William

  • #2
    I don't say nobody needs a teacher. I go to Sunday School, for example. I go to the services to worship God. There is no perfect church. None. I'm not done with my pastor yet as I find he is conflicted within his teachings regarding free will. He said he will read my book, which points out what the Bible says about will and election/predestination. He has not read it yet, which is just as well because I reworked it making it easier for the reader to follow, and I clarified some points. I am going to hold him to his word. If he ends up not reading it, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. It is not a distraction from his study of the Bible; in fact, it should focus him on a Biblical truth: that man does not have free will to choose salvation, as that is a choice made by God from before the foundation of the world. He has been distracted by commentaries telling him of free will. I am trying to focus him on the Bible regarding predestination. Also, other leaders of the church. I wait upon the Lord for what to do and when to do it.

    Trysch seemed to have a more fruitful reply in dealing with my "final" post. I am here now mostly because of the things she said, or I would probably not even be back, to tell the truth. But we shall see how it goes. Many people on site now since I left, so I might be better off not messing things up for you by being here. I don't know.

    My church is finding me a troublemaker because I am a "Calvinist" and they don't like that. I tell them to prove to me where the Bible teaches free will to choose salvation. They resort to commentaries and famous preachers for their answers. What is now a book started out as a cheat sheet to refer to when talking to the pastor in private, but before that could happen, the cheat sheet exploded into this big book, without me intending to do that. It has changed plenty since I sent you a copy of it.
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    • #3
      Stratcat

      First of all, I want to thank you for disarming my response rather than escalating it. I also would like to point out your arguments are exactly what I think about good commentators or gifted teachers. A good teacher should focus us on Scripture, and strip us of our excess baggage that we usually read into Biblical texts. I believe this is how the text is illuminated - through the Holy Spirit overcoming our prejudices and stripping away of life experiences that often become our standard of truth rather than the Scriptures.

      Originally posted by Stratcat View Post
      Trysch seemed to have a more fruitful reply in dealing with my "final" post. I am here now mostly because of the things she said, or I would probably not even be back, to tell the truth. But we shall see how it goes. Many people on site now since I left, so I might be better off not messing things up for you by being here. I don't know.
      I have to ask, what is it that you find more fruitful? A meek response to combat your aggressiveness? Wouldn't you rather clash with someone that does as you suggest, "I hold no punches"? Do you feel that someone standing by you rather than threatening to leave or see you off is more fruitful? Giving you some things to think about, hopefully you'll work it out despite any future disagreements. I think there is a "golden rule" here.

      God bless,
      William
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      • #4
        Originally posted by Stratcat View Post
        They resort to commentaries and famous preachers for their answers.
        How do you deal with that? Do you take the time to read those commentaries and address those arguments on a point to point basis? Or do you just discount and generalize all commentaries dismissing them along with your own? Joel Osteen has a new book titled "I AM". In my Calvinism group many people express their superficial opinion about him and his work. They never read his books, they never address any of his points, arguments, or scriptural interpretations. They just offer an opinion about the book as if they are superior solely on the basis of being a Calvinist.

        This would be a spectacular apologetic thread to start, imo.

        God bless,
        William
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        • #5
          Regarding the previous post: "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth." "Bless those that curse you and curse them not." Do not return evil with evil, but with good, for this would be like pouring hot coals on their head. Trysch showed maturity. I have received enough anger and repulsive remarks in the past from a few and wanted to put a stop to it one way or another. What angered me the most was that you really stretched a rule thin to apply to what I said in that one thread, then sent me 3 private emails and then posted them verbatim on the forum. What the heck was that? Further, if someone complains to the moderator, then I should receive a respectful indication of that so I am aware of what I supposedly did.

          Regarding the second post, I have read and heard their commentaries as I would want them to read mine. This is the truth. I let them know I still disagree with their free will thinking, but I can honestly tell them I read or saw as the case may be, their referred preachers or commentaries. Plus, I get enough of it just listening to it in church, as you should well know by now. I have told about it plenty of times. The fellowship is hard to come by. This too is important to have in any church. As I recall without looking back at the post, You list me off as a this, that, and the other thing with labels, then listed off yourself the same way. What's with all the academic labels? Jesus didn't do that. I thought hard about what Jesus did during my "soul searching" time off.

          If it is all the same to you, it is water under the bridge. Arguing by butting heads is what will get me to leave real fast now. I can't keep repeating myself on things I already addressed but got ignored. I won't argue for the sake of arguing like Monty Python's "The Argument Clinic" skit.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Stratcat View Post
            I have received enough anger and repulsive remarks in the past from a few and wanted to put a stop to it one way or another.
            I am glad that this has finally came about.

            Originally posted by Stratcat View Post
            What angered me the most was that you really stretched a rule thin to apply to what I said in that one thread, then sent me 3 private emails and then posted them verbatim on the forum. What the heck was that? Further, if someone complains to the moderator, then I should receive a respectful indication of that so I am aware of what I supposedly did.
            You received a private infraction. Future infractions will be received the same way. If you saw your infractions through the forum you only were seeing that. Private infractions are displayed in recent post streams, but only the recipient of the infraction can see it. I am unaware of posting your infractions per verbatim. You have only received one private infraction which was set to expire in ten days. Nobody else has ever received such favoritism. I have overlooked the rules on your behalf for some time, and I believe that has reflected negatively on not only me but the forum.

            Originally posted by Stratcat View Post
            If it is all the same to you, it is water under the bridge. Arguing by butting heads is what will get me to leave real fast now. I can't keep repeating myself on things I already addressed but got ignored. I won't argue for the sake of arguing like Monty Python's "The Argument Clinic" skit.
            Noted, and also note there was damage done to our relationship. I'll consider it water under the bridge with no formal apologies made by either party. I would appreciate when you do butt heads with anyone in the future that you leave without the dramatic announcements.

            I am cutting this thread and posting it from where I derailed it to a new thread made under the whining board.

            God bless,
            William
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