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Has your politics corrupted your religion?

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  • #16
    It should be quite clear that I do not envy the rich. Nor do I advocate class war. On the contrary, I pity the rich, since it is their avarice that so clearly stands in the way of a just settlement for humanity, that will so obviously save the lives of the needy. And that even it does nothing to help God work out the proper place for each of us, amongst His saints.

    Best wishes, 2RM.
    Last edited by 2ndRateMind; 07-11-2015, 11:55 AM.
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    • #17
      Originally posted by Stratcat View Post
      Who is anyone to claim the right to say how much money a person is allowed to have? It is and should be their money.
      I think you will find that nothing material is ours. We did not arrive with it at birth, we cannot take it with us when we die. All we can do with wealth, that is worth the doing, is make other people's life the better. And if we don't, we are truly sad, and lost. If God gives us an excess of money, it is for one purpose, and one purpose only. And that is for us to express love; His love for each of us, and our love for each other.

      Best wishes, 2RM.
      Last edited by 2ndRateMind; 07-11-2015, 12:17 PM.
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      • #18
        Originally posted by 2ndRateMind View Post
        I have known Christians who are socialists, and Christians who are capitalists. It seems to depend on one's reading of scripture, and the relevance and emphasis one accords certain, crucial passages. My own political leaning is towards the left, not because of scripture, but out of simple desire to succour the underdog, who needs more support than those who are already rich. For me, it's a matter of ideals of justice, and social justice, and not religion, at all. If the brute fact about the world's economy is that there is X amount of $, and Y amount of people, I can't see why each person shouldn't get apportioned the opportunity to earn $X/Y. That would stop hunger, malnutrition and starvation, and death from preventable disease, outright.

        Cheers, 2RM
        The Left is better at destroying prosperity than spreading it around. (Maybe the Right is as bad, just in other ways.)

        Socialism doesn't work, and even if it did, it's theft and slavery. The ends do not justify the means.

        Maybe I like you idea. Give everyone one free annual checkup and have the government pay for all necessary treatment of diseases (no free voluntary treatment), and basic preventative medicine (shots). And, give bland food bars (with all necessary nutrition) to everyone who asks (up to 1500 calories/day). So, why don't we do this? Maybe the Left isn't really motivated by wanting to help the less fortunate.
        Last edited by Cornelius; 07-11-2015, 03:20 PM.
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        • #19
          Seems like a sound plan, to me.

          Best wishes, 2RM
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          • #20
            Just to put some figures into $X/Y. We need look at two different aspects of wealth; net worth, and annual income. In very approximate numbers, easily remembered, we are talking a net worth of around $20,000 each, and an income of around $20,000 per year each. I thought you might be interested in these figures, and that they might help you decide for yourself what is an ethical degree of wealth to own, and to earn.

            Best wishes, 2RM.
            Last edited by 2ndRateMind; 07-12-2015, 05:16 AM.
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            • #21
              This is very timely. Here in my country, it's election season again and it was just pronounced who are the winners for the major government positions: president and vice-president, along with the senators. So the president who won, he claims to be a Christian but he doesn't act like so. He swears, demeans women and is not opposed to killing crime makers. He was a great mayor in his municipality, even made his district the safest one in the country. But his behaviour, attitude and actions are opposed to a true Christian. So in that sense, can we say that politics has corrupted his religion? I would like to think so.

              I'm not into politics much although I try and be updated about it. I know many people who work in the government offices and have become corrupted. They go to mass every Sunday but they take money from the people during weekdays. Is this the way it's supposed to work? You cannot be a Christian just by going to church. It is your actions that determine whether you are a true child of God or not.

              Then there are people who have nothing but struggle to make a living. I see those people selling candies or water in the streets even during the heat of the sun. And I know that they are not corrupted people. They make a living without stealing from anyone and it's through their sweats that they are able to feed their families.
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              • #22
                Originally posted by 2ndRateMind View Post
                I have known Christians who are socialists, and Christians who are capitalists. It seems to depend on one's reading of scripture, and the relevance and emphasis one accords certain, crucial passages. My own political leaning is towards the left, not because of scripture, but out of simple desire to succour the underdog, who needs more support than those who are already rich. For me, it's a matter of ideals of justice, and social justice, and not religion, at all. If the brute fact about the world's economy is that there is X amount of $, and Y amount of people, I can't see why each person shouldn't get apportioned the opportunity to earn $X/Y. That would stop hunger, malnutrition and starvation, and death from preventable disease, outright.

                Cheers, 2RM
                I lean left, too. Quite a bit actually. In basically everything except Gender roles.
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                • #23
                  I've always had a "separation of church and state" philosophy when it comes to these two. I have always had a hatred for politics, and it is the main reason why I tend to avoid actively discussing politics with peers and friends in the real world. They honestly think that my "approach" to the matter isn't very helpful, as I always claim that I couldn't care less what the events after election would lead our country in, as I have really had this notion that no matter who we vote, in a country where nepotism is at large, we as normal citizens wouldn't be able to do much, and these politicians have always had their way, in one way or another. So I just stick to religion, hopefully someone out there is listening, and maybe throw me a bone once in a while, and help me in troubled times. Because I can believe God may be able to help me, but for politicians? I highly doubt it.
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                  • #24
                    I know when to draw the line when it comes to discussions on religion and politics. I do not allow politics to mix with my religious work. I take my religious life to a high esteem and know the dangers if I do not draw the line between religion and politics.
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                    • #25
                      I think it's unrealistic to expect someone's religious beliefs to not influence their political stances. When something is such a strong part of your makeup, of course it is going to inform your political opinions, even if you strive to separate the two.

                      There's that old saying "never talk religion or politics". Myself personally I'm quite a bit more left-leaning than some Christians, and to be perfectly frank I was appalled when Donald Trump was elected and think it's a sad state of affairs for the nation and an unflattering commentary on how far our standards have fallen in the political process (which some here will surely strongly disagree with) but we all have to make peace with what we believe is right and how we square it with our faith, through our own perceptions and experiences.
                      Last edited by Jester85; 12-23-2016, 09:10 AM.
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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Jester85 View Post
                        I think it's unrealistic to expect someone's religious beliefs to not influence their political stances. When something is such a strong part of your makeup, of course it is going to inform your political opinions, even if you strive to separate the two.

                        There's that old saying "never talk religion or politics". Myself personally I'm quite a bit more left-leaning than some Christians, and to be perfectly frank I was appalled when Donald Trump was elected and think it's a sad state of affairs for the nation and an unflattering commentary on how far our standards have fallen in the political process (which some here will surely strongly disagree with) but we all have to make peace with what we believe is right and how we square it with our faith, through our own perceptions and experiences.
                        I get your points. I have gained something from it. But we should always hold the Good Tenets of our Faith to high even while in politics
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                        • #27
                          My views on politicians are rather jaded after too much exposure to them. From past experience, they will happily lie about what is convenient. I did try joining a local political party because I was concerned about local causes, but it turned out that the group were not interested in solving local problems, just in using them to score political points. When a leading member insisted there was no recession and we'd been recovering since their group took control, despite deflationary warnings in the press and increasing unemployment, I walked out and never looked back. Obvious and deliberate lying for ideological reasons is never acceptable to me.
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                          • #28
                            I try to embrace a pragmatic view of politicians. Sometimes you have to hold your nose and go with the one who best represents and supports your priority issues, whether they do it sincerely or because it's politically expedient. Or, while some will strongly reject this, choose which one is likely to be less disastrous.
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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Jester85 View Post
                              I try to embrace a pragmatic view of politicians. Sometimes you have to hold your nose and go with the one who best represents and supports your priority issues, whether they do it sincerely or because it's politically expedient. Or, while some will strongly reject this, choose which one is likely to be less disastrous.
                              Also known as voting for the lesser of two evils. So, what happens when both sides seem more "evil" than good?

                              As far as socialism goes, I don't see it as being more like Jesus, despite what some have said. Jesus helped people in person. He didn't leave it up to the government. Paying your taxes and hoping that those taxes get used to help other people might make some feel good, but it isn't "good works" in my opinion. First, governments are corrupt (which is why socialism doesn't work.. it's just a smaller group of one percenters deciding what should become of everyone else). Next, paying taxes and washing your hands of things isn't heartfelt service to the poor, in my opinion. Poverty is messy. It requires getting your hands dirty sometimes to actually make a difference.
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                              • #30
                                I think this comes down to deciding which master you choose to serve. Christians should play a prominent role in politics, but politics should not play a prominent role in Christians. Politics is a means to an end. That end, to a Christian, should be doing God's will.
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