The process by which different kinds of living organisms are thought to have developed and diversified from earlier forms during the history of the earth

Creation

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Creation

    Here`s one of my favorite subjects, one that even some Christians have a hard time with.

    I believe God created the heavens and the Earth in 6 literal days @6000 years ago, I believe we cant know where we are going until we know where we have been because the world will go back to garden of Eden like conditions after Christs return for the millennial reign, these are just my beliefs and of coarse you are free to disagree.

    In the beginning God created the heaven and the Earth and the Earth was without form and void (formless and devoid of any features) and darkness was on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of the Lord hovered above the waters.
    #-Radio polonium halos found in granite prove the Earth was never a "hot molten mass" as evolutionists say, plus granite cannot be melted down ever and return to granite.
    #-The foundation of the Earth was laid on the waters Psalms 136:6 (this will play into it later on when I write on the flood.)

    And God said let their be light, and there was light and God saw the light, that it was good, and God divided the light from the darkness.
    And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
    And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
    #-The word for day is a literal 24 hour period NOT like an age or as "in the day of", plusThe nature and source of this light is not known as the sun moon and stars haven't been created yet.

    And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters
    And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
    And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
    #-It is not clear but it seems there was some sort of water canopy above the Earth, the firmament (sky) separates water from water and was likely part of the flood waters.

    And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
    #-the seas must have been much smaller in the beginning as we will get into later during the flood writing.

    And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
    And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
    And the evening and the morning were the third day.
    #-I believe this was created before the sun for a reason, to prove that it is a literal day.

    And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
    And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
    And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
    And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
    And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
    And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
    #- this is why the nature of the previous light is not known, the sun was made this day.

    And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
    And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
    And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
    And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

    And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
    And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

    And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
    So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
    And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

    And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
    And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
    #-There was no death, everyone and everything were vegetarian, with the exception of fish which don't have the breath of life in their nostrils, plus God said it was "Very good" which implies Satan had not fallen yet, if so since he was part of creation it would not have been very good.

    It makes sense that because there were giant insects, spiders, and the fact that many huge dinosaurs had nostrils the sizes of a horses nostrils, that there was likely a water canopy above the Earth giving more atmospheric pressure and blocking UV rays, its the only way that insects can grow to such sizes and the only way men and animals could live 900+ years, it would also have given men the ability for extreme intelligence and endurance.

    Dinosaurs HAD to have been created as well and walked with man, as we all know reptiles never stop growing as long as they live, and if man lived to be 900+ then by reason animals must have lived quite a long time, Peruvian gravestone accurately depict men with dinosaurs down to the designs of their skin yes they have fossilized dinosaur skin,and as we will get into later there are some dinosaurs still alive today.

    When God began on the first day what He actually created was ,,,,,Time,Space,Matter, the three are intertwined and cant be separated.

    Oh and as for the Earth being 6000 years old, ok well first off the Earth cant possibly be over 1 million years old, if it were there would be no diamonds anywhere on Earth because the half-life of carbon is 5,730 yrs, the oceans only have a few thousand years worth of mud at the bottom, the moon only has a few thousand years worth of dust on it, that's why the moon landers legs were 18 inches too long they expected millions of years of dust that would be deep enough to bury the moon lander instead they got 1/2 inch, if the grand canyon were millions of years old wheres the delta? wheres the dirt washed out from it?, why haven't galaxies lost their spiral?, why hasn't atmospheric carbon14 reached equilibrium yet?, the position of the moon at a few million years ago would have been so close to the Earth it would have almost touched the surface, what about Boyles gas law? gas cannot come together to create a sun it always builds pressure and expands away, or even the law of conservation of angular momentum because some planets and galaxies spin backwards, why don't the laws evolve and/or morals and truth? why does DNA hold so much information?, why are cells so much more complex than any computer we could ever fathom, there's much more for later,

    Want to see something really funky look into the red record handed down by the Denver Indians, I don't know if there's any truth to it but if it were true it'd be awesome.

    No there's no way evolution can be true, these are just a few facts about the world, and why does it really matter? I'm so glad you asked, because be very careful, evolution is a RELIGION, there are NO facts for it so it is taken on faith and shoved down our childrens throats at schools, everything from the Piltdown man to the geologic column has been disproven time and again and its still in the textbooks, more to come on that too.

    If God can do all of this He can do all things, especially in your life with your problems or needs, if you can believe God did all this there should be no problem believing everything in the Bible. I know some people have their doubts but there is good evidence for the creation account which I will keep posting here

    This was before the fall and the Earth was perfect, next I will start on the fall of man but I will be adding to this one as well.

    If you have any questions for me you may need to pm me because my work hours have increased and I don't do much online anymore.

  • #2
    Hello JSB,

    Are you well studied in dating methods? Curious, perhaps you could shed some light on some of those methods? I'm kind of leaning away from Creation debates, I find they usually never end up addressing Scripture, but rather Secular theories, guess I am adding to that problem by asking you about the most widely known dating methods. So before a debate begins, I'd like to exercise the luxury of just talking on this subject and asking questions. How have scientist come to the conclusion that the earth is 4.4 billion years old? Was there an actual rock they found to be 4.4 billion years old?

    God bless,
    William
    Comment>

    • #3
      Originally posted by JSB View Post
      Oh and as for the Earth being 6000 years old, ok well first off the Earth cant possibly be over 1 million years old, if it were there would be no diamonds anywhere on Earth because the half-life of carbon is 5,730 yrs
      The half-life of Carbon-14 is 5730 years. Diamonds are mostly Carbon-12, which lasts practically forever. For diamonds to be millions of years old, there couldn't be any C14 in them. C14 is created in the upper atmosphere by cosmic rays hitting nitrogen atoms. This new carbon is then consumed by plants, and then the animals that eat the plants. Any C14 in any fossil is evidence that the fossil is not millions of years old.
      Comment>

      • #4
        The often given date of 4.5 billion years of age given for the Earth is based on uranium dating of the oldest meteorites on Earth. Of course, this begs the question, what were the original isotopes?
        Comment>

        • #5
          Originally posted by Cornelius View Post
          The often given date of 4.5 billion years of age given for the Earth is based on uranium dating of the oldest meteorites on Earth. Of course, this begs the question, what were the original isotopes?
          So they have a rock they measured at 4.5 billion years of age? Found this article: Confirmed: Oldest Fragment of Early Earth is 4.4 Billion Years Old
          Comment>

          • #6
            Originally posted by JSB View Post
            And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
            #- this is why the nature of the previous light is not known, the sun was made this day.
            Actually the Bible doesn't say the sun was made that day. Here is what it does say about the fourth day:

            And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so.
            (Genesis 1:14-15 ESV)


            It says he placed lights in the sky; it doesn't say he created the bodies that produced those lights as this time. Here is something you need to keep in mind when interpreting the creation account:

            The heavens are the LORD's heavens,
            but the earth he has given to the children of man.
            (Psalm 115:16 ESV)


            Since only the earth was made for man it is the only part of the universe whose creation is described in the Bible. The rest of the universe might have been created at the same time as the earth but it might also be much older.
            Clyde Herrin's Blog
            Comment>

            • #7
              Genesis tells us the light of day was created before the sun. But, we know, as did Moses, that daylight comes from the sun. This is really like a chicken and the egg question, we know chickens come from eggs. To have a chicken that didn't come from an egg is not natural. The creation of the universe was not a natural event.
              Comment>

              • #8
                Originally posted by William View Post
                Hello JSB,

                Are you well studied in dating methods? Curious, perhaps you could shed some light on some of those methods? I'm kind of leaning away from Creation debates, I find they usually never end up addressing Scripture, but rather Secular theories, guess I am adding to that problem by asking you about the most widely known dating methods. So before a debate begins, I'd like to exercise the luxury of just talking on this subject and asking questions. How have scientist come to the conclusion that the earth is 4.4 billion years old? Was there an actual rock they found to be 4.4 billion years old?

                God bless,
                William
                I think creationists would do better if they stuck to making positive statements about their beliefs, rather than trying to slag off theories in fields they have no expertise in.

                A young earth creationist ranting about young earth creationists:

                Todd's Blog: The truth about evolution



                Comment>

                • #9
                  From "Todd's Blog":The truth about evolution

                  I hope this doesn't turn into a rant, but it might. You have been warned.

                  Evolution is not a theory in crisis. It is not teetering on the verge of collapse. It has not failed as a scientific explanation. There is evidence for evolution, gobs and gobs of it. It is not just speculation or a faith choice or an assumption or a religion. It is a productive framework for lots of biological research, and it has amazing explanatory power. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth about the failure of evolution. There has really been no failure of evolution as a scientific theory. It works, and it works well.

                  I say these things not because I'm crazy or because I've "converted" to evolution. I say these things because they are true. I'm motivated this morning by reading yet another clueless, well-meaning person pompously declaring that evolution is a failure. People who say that are either unacquainted with the inner workings of science or unacquainted with the evidence for evolution. (Technically, they could also be deluded or lying, but that seems rather uncharitable to say. Oops.)

                  Creationist students, listen to me very carefully: There is evidence for evolution, and evolution is an extremely successful scientific theory. That doesn't make it ultimately true, and it doesn't mean that there could not possibly be viable alternatives. It is my own faith choice to reject evolution, because I believe the Bible reveals true information about the history of the earth that is fundamentally incompatible with evolution. I am motivated to understand God's creation from what I believe to be a biblical, creationist perspective. Evolution itself is not flawed or without evidence. Please don't be duped into thinking that somehow evolution itself is a failure. Please don't idolize your own ability to reason. Faith is enough. If God said it, that should settle it. Maybe that's not enough for your scoffing professor or your non-Christian friends, but it should be enough for you.

                  I think that's all I want to say today. Rant over.
                  This was published in 2009. There's a recent movie (just released last summer, in fact), that was made by a group of men who are all most definitely acquainted with BOTH "the inner workings of science" and "the evidence for evolution". In fact, here they are:
                  1. Kevin Anderson, PhD – Microbiologist
                  2. Steve Austin, PhD – Geologist
                  3. Steven Boyd, PhD – Hebraist
                  4. Robert Carter, PhD – Marine Biologist
                  5. Arthur Chadwick, PhD – Taphonomist
                  6. Danny Faulkner, PhD – Astronomer
                  7. George Grant, PhD – Pastor
                  8. Paul Nelson, PhD – Philosopher of Science
                  9. Douglas Petrovich, PhD – Archeologist
                  1. Marcus Ross, PhD – Paleontologist
                  2. Andrew Snelling, PhD – Geologist
                  3. Kurt Wise, PhD – Paleontologist
                  4. Todd Wood, PhD – Biologist
                  5. Stuart Burgess, PhD – Mechanical Engineer (Bonus Features)
                  6. Douglas Kelly, PhD – Theologian (Bonus Features)
                  7. Larry Vardiman, PhD – Atmospheric Physicist (Bonus Features)
                  It will cost you at least $4.99 to see it (for a 24 hr digital download from Amazon), but if the subject is one that interests you/one that you would like to know far more about than you do today, then this documentary is for you (it is EXTREMELY well done, BTW :)). You can also buy the movie, of course, via digital download, or on DVD or Blu Ray.

                  It's called, Is Genesis History?, and is it a very compelling account to be sure (you can see the Trailer at the link I just provided if you'd like to see it).

                  In Christ,
                  David
                  Simul Justus et Peccator ~Martin Luther

                  "We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone" ~John Calvin

                  "The Christian does not think God will love us because we are good, but that God will make us good because He loves us." ~C. S. Lewis

                  "The secret is Christ in me, not me in a different set of circumstances" ~Elisabeth Elliot

                  "The law is for the self-righteous to humble their pride; the Gospel is for the lost to remove their despair. ~C. H. Spurgeon
                  Comment>

                  • #10
                    I've taken part in 'this' discussion a few times over the years on a couple of other Forums. It's a huge subject. One question -- is God powerful enough to have accomplished creation or isn't / wasn't He. If a person seriously questions God's power-- then what about the bodily resurrection from the dead. Or the virgin birth. And How can evolution really be taken seriously when no one can determine how the world got here in the first place. It's Obvious that the world and mankind and animals Are here. So Society is trying to figure out How it happened. For some reason, God's answer in Genesis 1 and 2 is not taken seriously. Life is lived one generation at a time - human beings have been giving birth to other human beings since the beginning of time. And all the animals do the same -- reproduce after their kind. Genesis gives man dominion over the animal world -- that is clearly seen.

                    There is really no reason for any of this world To be 'here'.

                    And the subject of DNA -- fascinating -- someone discovered it -- but it couldn't have just come about on it's own. Evidence of a Designer. So much evidence of a Designer -- we should give Him a name -- how about "God". :D
                    Comment>

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sue D. View Post
                      I've taken part in 'this' discussion a few times over the years on a couple of other Forums. It's a huge subject. One question -- is God powerful enough to have accomplished creation or isn't / wasn't He.
                      With or without evolution being involved, does the creation of a universe, and then of life, strike you as being the work of some entity with very little power?


                      If a person seriously questions God's power-- then what about the bodily resurrection from the dead. Or the virgin birth. And How can evolution really be taken seriously when no one can determine how the world got here in the first place. It's Obvious that the world and mankind and animals Are here. So Society is trying to figure out How it happened. For some reason, God's answer in Genesis 1 and 2 is not taken seriously.
                      Do you believe that human new born are the product of a hugely complex physical process, lasting nine months, and which can be described by medical science? Do you believe that each individual human being is the special creation of God? Did you just answer "yes" to both of those two questions?

                      It may be that if Creation is the result of a series of divine fiats, as described in Genesis 1, then no scientific description of creation is possible. But if that is the case, "creation science" is an oxymoron, and places like the Discovery Institute ought to be closing their doors.


                      For some reason, God's answer in Genesis 1 and 2 is not taken seriously.
                      That God has given us an account of creation, which presumably includes all that he thinks we need to know, and that there is no need for us to try and expand upon it, is a respectable theological position. It is one I have some sympathy with. But it is one which can be held without trying to slag off scientific theories which seem engaged in the slightly impious activity of trying to expand upon God's Word.
                      Last edited by ThyWordisTruth; 05-31-2017, 03:40 AM.
                      Comment>

                      • #12
                        Your first question -- No -- it shows God's omnipotence -- all powerfulness. God's greatness.
                        Second question -- Yes, yes, obviously 'yes'. I know very little about Discovery Institute -- just that it exists. And maybe it depends on who a person is talking to regarding the 24/7. There's a passage that says a thousand years are as a day and a day as a thousand years. Which could be interpreted that with God there is no 'time' , but that it was invented for mankind. And , so , creation days could have lasted 1,000 yrs. But what about God resting on the 7th day. Does that mean He rested for 1,000 years. And there Are those who think He's been doing exactly that -- Nothing but for longer than that.

                        Hasn't our 6 days work week and taking a day of rest for a day based on the creation 'work week and a day of rest'? Society has 'adjusted' that over the years. Lots of places of employment are operated 24/7 --- partly for the sake of those who don't want to sit still one day a week. At least in the U.S.

                        Third question -- comment -- that God has given us all He thinks we need to know. I might ask -- Why should we feel a need To expand on it? If scientific theories disagree with God's Word -- well -- scientists are merely human beings -- God is Almighty God. I see a difference. Science Can 'stand in awe' Of God's creativeness. But if they are trying to 'adjust' Genesis to fit more with the 'billions' of years that some theories are holding to in order to give time for mutations to 'do their thing' ---- Then I step back From that part of science and go back to God's Word. God made people / People / Not an extention of the animal world. ;):D
                        Comment>

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sue D. View Post
                          But what about God resting on the 7th day. Does that mean He rested for 1,000 years. And there Are those who think He's been doing exactly that -- Nothing but for longer than that.
                          "Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways: Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest."

                          The author of psalm 95 obviously thought of God's rest as something ongoing, and the reference to the seventh day in Genesis as being a figurative way of saying, "After God had finished creating......" Likewise the author of Hebrews, who quotes psalm 95 and waxes eloquently on it.




                          Why should we feel a need To expand on it?
                          Why did medieval astronomers want to know why the planets orbited the Sun? Because it is natural to humans to ask "why?" They could have answered, "because God ordained it that way," and probably they did. But hen Newton, who was no atheist, came along and expanded upon that answer.


                          creativeness. But if they are trying to 'adjust' Genesis to fit more with the 'billions' of years that some theories are holding to in order to give time for mutations to 'do their thing' ---- Then I step back From that part of science and go back to God's Word. God made people / People / Not an extention of the animal world. ;):D
                          The 4.6 billion year figure for the age of the Earth comes from the Uranium-Lead dating of zircon crystals. Even an arch conservative like B B Warfield wasn't hung up on Bishop Ussher's calculations.

                          Comment>

                          • #14
                            For one thing -- the creation week -- the 7th being for a day of rest -- isn't that setting the example for Us to come apart for one day during a given work week to stop and take time for God. Isn't the Saturday or Sunday worship each week -- taken by lots people -- because of God's example? Why else would we be told to 'keep the Sabbath day holy'. There were many Sabbath's observed in the Old Testament. But one was special for every week.

                            There Is the other 'entering into My rest' that is different from that.

                            Okay -- it Is natural for people to ask 'why' -- people have always looked up in the sky and wondered about the stars / moon/ 'other' people existing. So you're saying in your last sentence that the billion year figure is really neither here nor there. It's the dating method's results that have caused so much friction on the other Forum because the devout atheists over there -- well -- you know how they feel. I've always automatically 'growled' about it. But you might be more open to Older age because you come from a country that is Much older than U.S. And it might simply be that I'm more of a literalist than you are. Can lead to some interesting conversation. And maybe I'll be more inclined to listen because we do believe a lot alike.

                            Comment>

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sue D. View Post
                              And , so , creation days could have lasted 1,000 yrs.
                              • 8 But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
                              • 9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you,[a] not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.


                              2 Peter 3:8-9 hasn't anything to do with Creation. The context speaks of God's promises, we should not lose heart because God is patient.

                              God bless,
                              William
                              Comment>
                              Working...
                              X
                              Articles - News - SiteMap