If you want to discuss atheism, agnosticism, and secular humanism in general, this forum is the place to be! Got any news / activism related to the atheist movement?

Which god is the true one and how can we tell?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #76
    How can we say Jewish religion was the only true religion of past?
    I'm asking wrong questions.
    Q1 What is the criteria you use to defend Jewish God and the Torah as the only true revelation? And why other old religions don't pass it?
    Q2 How can we justify that how Messianic Jew's interpret the scriptures is the right way?
    It humorous but a former Catholic often appearing in a video shared by Hare Krishna is saying that Krishna is the father of Jesus. I know this is a totally fallacious understanding of the Bible.
    First I want to discuss the first questions. after it, we will the second.
    Comment>

      #77
      Originally posted by motirattan View Post
      Q1 What is the criteria you use to defend Jewish God and the Torah as the only true revelation? And why other old religions don't pass it?
      Jesus himself said that the Torah and the other Jewish scriptures are the only true revelation of God and his resurrection shows that everything he said is true. This also shows that the Messianic Jewish interpretation of the scriptures is right, because they believe in the resurrection of Jesus.

      At one time, just after the Flood, there was a universal knowledge of the truth that God had revealed. As Noah's descendants spread out over the world most of them drifted away from the truth yet they all retains some bits of the truth. That is why some truth can be found in every religion. When Paul spoke to the Athenians on Mars Hill he quoted some statements from their poets that contained some of these truths, and then showed that the whole truth is found in the message of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
      Clyde Herrin's Blog
      Comment>

        #78
        Originally posted by motirattan View Post
        How can we say Jewish religion was the only true religion of past?
        I'm asking wrong questions.
        Q1 What is the criteria you use to defend Jewish God and the Torah as the only true revelation? And why other old religions don't pass it?
        Q2 How can we justify that how Messianic Jew's interpret the scriptures is the right way?
        It humorous but a former Catholic often appearing in a video shared by Hare Krishna is saying that Krishna is the father of Jesus. I know this is a totally fallacious understanding of the Bible.
        First I want to discuss the first questions. after it, we will the second.
        Intelligent Design proves existence of a Creator. Prophecies in the Bible have come true hundreds and sometimes thousands of years in advance with amazing accuracy. Some scholars are amazed at the accuracy of the Book of Daniel and the prophecies contained. The Lord God of Israel is the One True God. Jesus is the prophesied Messiah and Savior.

        Also, the Krishna creation story is like a fairy tale myth.
        Comment>

          #79
          The logical conclusion of atheism/materialism/naturalism is a strict determinism. Fatalism, we are tightly bound by nature to act and react as our molecular structure has been programmed by nature. There is no reality other than that which nature creates through the firing of atoms in our nervous system. Nothing exists that has any meaning. Everything is meaningless. Solomon was right on the money when he penned Ecclesiastes.
          Everything is utter foolishness. The only thing that can break this chain is God choosing to reveal himself to us.
          What would God have to do to make that revelation have meaning?
          Comment>

            #80
            Originally posted by CDF47 View Post

            Intelligent Design proves existence of a Creator. Prophecies in the Bible have come true hundreds and sometimes thousands of years in advance with amazing accuracy. Some scholars are amazed at the accuracy of the Book of Daniel and the prophecies contained. The Lord God of Israel is the One True God. Jesus is the prophesied Messiah and Savior.

            Also, the Krishna creation story is like a fairy tale myth.
            As for prophecies, I've shown you them in Vedas and Gita. As for creation story, yeah all seems like fiction but just because something seems fiction doesn't make it fiction. You should test whether Hinduism stands scrutiny. But you first need to know criteria. If prophecies in other religions are from Devil, how can we be sure ours is not from Devil. My question will be what criteria do you use to establish that the Bible is the only true book.
            Hindu books have scientific knowledge which Hindus say weren't known at that time.
            So, do you think criteria of prophecy is feasible? I was once talking to a Christian on a helpline, I talked to her about prophecies in other religions and she agreed that other religions too have prophecies. A Western will say Bible creation story is too a myth. What is myth according to you? I think it is something which is believed but actually isn't true. So, can we know what we are believing is not a myth. I know we all value experience but if you'll listen to a devout Sikh or Hindu, he'll tell you the same things. Actually, I used to say the same but they can't be the only criteria of truth. And if you're using Bible to establish the truth,you first have to establish the Bible. It's not about who wrote Bible and when but how can we know it's spiritual message is true.
            Comment>

              #81
              Originally posted by MennoSota View Post
              The logical conclusion of atheism/materialism/naturalism is a strict determinism. Fatalism, we are tightly bound by nature to act and react as our molecular structure has been programmed by nature. There is no reality other than that which nature creates through the firing of atoms in our nervous system. Nothing exists that has any meaning. Everything is meaningless. Solomon was right on the money when he penned Ecclesiastes.
              Everything is utter foolishness. The only thing that can break this chain is God choosing to reveal himself to us.
              What would God have to do to make that revelation have meaning?
              I agree, without the concept of God , life can have only subjective meaning not objective. But just because of it without evidence doing it is wrong. The Bible tells us to test all spirits, so the first thing you should test is the Bible.
              Comment>

                #82
                Originally posted by theophilus View Post

                Jesus himself said that the Torah and the other Jewish scriptures are the only true revelation of God and his resurrection shows that everything he said is true. This also shows that the Messianic Jewish interpretation of the scriptures is right, because they believe in the resurrection of Jesus.

                At one time, just after the Flood, there was a universal knowledge of the truth that God had revealed. As Noah's descendants spread out over the world most of them drifted away from the truth yet they all retains some bits of the truth. That is why some truth can be found in every religion. When Paul spoke to the Athenians on Mars Hill he quoted some statements from their poets that contained some of these truths, and then showed that the whole truth is found in the message of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
                For establishing authority of Torah on Jesus, you first need to establish authority of Jesus on evidential basis. Now, many regard Acts as legendary but without evidence it should not be said so. It might be true. For Acts, it can't be verified. Geographically, Acts is accurate. Mahabharata too is accurate in the same way.
                Comment>

                  #83
                  Originally posted by motirattan View Post

                  As for prophecies, I've shown you them in Vedas and Gita. As for creation story, yeah all seems like fiction but just because something seems fiction doesn't make it fiction. You should test whether Hinduism stands scrutiny. But you first need to know criteria. If prophecies in other religions are from Devil, how can we be sure ours is not from Devil. My question will be what criteria do you use to establish that the Bible is the only true book.
                  Hindu books have scientific knowledge which Hindus say weren't known at that time.
                  So, do you think criteria of prophecy is feasible? I was once talking to a Christian on a helpline, I talked to her about prophecies in other religions and she agreed that other religions too have prophecies. A Western will say Bible creation story is too a myth. What is myth according to you? I think it is something which is believed but actually isn't true. So, can we know what we are believing is not a myth. I know we all value experience but if you'll listen to a devout Sikh or Hindu, he'll tell you the same things. Actually, I used to say the same but they can't be the only criteria of truth. And if you're using Bible to establish the truth,you first have to establish the Bible. It's not about who wrote Bible and when but how can we know it's spiritual message is true.
                  The creation story of the Bible is accurate based on Old Earth Creationism Day-Age Interpretation. The other religions' creation stories and science are not accurate and are just myths. Some are almost like cat in the hat. The Bible prophecies have come true. Einstein discovered time is relative. There is time dilation which is how God can speak the future to man.
                  Comment>

                    #84
                    Originally posted by motirattan

                    For establishing authority of Torah on Jesus, you first need to establish authority of Jesus on evidential basis. Now, many regard Acts as legendary but without evidence it should not be said so. It might be true. For Acts, it can't be verified. Geographically, Acts is accurate. Mahabharata too is accurate in the same way.
                    Are we going to use the same historical standards for all persons in antiquity? I suggest we should. If we use those same standards for everyone we will conclude that the evidence for Jesus of Nazareth is greater than any other person in antiquity.
                    If you doubt Jesus existence then you must doubt the existence of Alexander the Great, Hammurabi, the Pharoahs, Plato, Aristotle, Buddha, Muhammad, etc. The historical evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of Jesus. It's not even a contest.
                    Comment>

                      #85
                      Originally posted by MennoSota View Post
                      Are we going to use the same historical standards for all persons in antiquity? I suggest we should. If we use those same standards for everyone we will conclude that the evidence for Jesus of Nazareth is greater than any other person in antiquity.
                      If you doubt Jesus existence then you must doubt the existence of Alexander the Great, Hammurabi, the Pharoahs, Plato, Aristotle, Buddha, Muhammad, etc. The historical evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of Jesus. It's not even a contest.
                      By authority, I mean spiritual authority.
                      Comment>

                        #86
                        Originally posted by CDF47 View Post

                        The creation story of the Bible is accurate based on Old Earth Creationism Day-Age Interpretation. The other religions' creation stories and science are not accurate and are just myths. Some are almost like cat in the hat. The Bible prophecies have come true. Einstein discovered time is relative. There is time dilation which is how God can speak the future to man.
                        What about those who support YEC?
                        You believe in B-theory of time? I think God is timeless so don't need time dilation.

                        I can agree on creation point but do you know about Eridu Genesis? Yahweh being a war god?
                        Comment>

                          #87
                          Originally posted by motirattan

                          By authority, I mean spiritual authority.
                          An atheist will not believe in any spiritual authority.
                          To come to any conclusions s/he must be confronted with empirical evidence. What is the empirical evidence for Jesus versus any other historical person of antiquity? What is the empirical evidence that supports the history presented in the Bible in comparison with other documents in antiquity? Does archeology back up or refute the historical documentation?

                          We must set the same standard and variables for all when we compare and contrast. After doing so, what evidence meets the highest mark regarding the search for the truth?
                          Comment>

                            #88
                            Originally posted by MennoSota View Post
                            An atheist will not believe in any spiritual authority.
                            To come to any conclusions s/he must be confronted with empirical evidence. What is the empirical evidence for Jesus versus any other historical person of antiquity? What is the empirical evidence that supports the history presented in the Bible in comparison with other documents in antiquity? Does archeology back up or refute the historical documentation?

                            We must set the same standard and variables for all when we compare and contrast. After doing so, what evidence meets the highest mark regarding the search for the truth?
                            I agree. But the confusion comes when other religions too are getting evidences.
                            So, historical conformity is different thing.
                            But what if you find the same proof for other religions, shall you then be Hindu,Sikh? Or if there came someone claiming as god as anti Christ will come, will you believe in him as you'll need no evidence for his existence? I won't be as skeptical as a naturalist. I was asking reasons why we can accept the spiritual authority for Jesus. When anti Christ will come, he will do miracles and his works will be better attested than Jesus. So, on what basis can you lay the spiritual authority of the Bible.
                            if we can't, how can favor belief in one religion over other or claim anyone to be wrong without evidence.?
                            Comment>

                              #89
                              A naturalist will presuppose miracles can't happen but a seeker will ask, is there reasonable evidence to believe this or that?
                              In India, there accounts of gurus venerated as god and people claim that they did miracles. So, they are far more historically accurate. So, on what basis we can value Jesus more evidentially?
                              Comment>

                                #90
                                Originally posted by motirattan View Post

                                What about those who support YEC?
                                You believe in B-theory of time? I think God is timeless so don't need time dilation.

                                I can agree on creation point but do you know about Eridu Genesis? Yahweh being a war god?
                                YEC is not scientific so I disagree with it. I believe Old Earth Creationism Day Age Interpretation is actuality. God is timeless and eternal but inside this universe there is time and time dilation which is how prophets know the future when God speaks it to them or shows it to them.

                                I do not believe in polytheism. I am a follower of the Biblical LORD.
                                Comment>
                                Working...
                                X
                                Articles - News - SiteMap