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  • The wall

    President Trump has ordered the construction of a wall to keep out illegal immigrants. I think there is a better solution to illegal immigration; make it easier for people to immigrate legally.

    Most immigrants come because they want to work and make a living for themselves and their families or they are experiencing some kind of persecution in their home countries. The United States used to welcome such people and many of them have made important contributions to our country.

    Of course we need to check the backgrounds of immigrants to avoid admitting those who would harm our country but it is easier to check the background of someone who is applying for a visa than that of someone who is sneaking into the country illegally.

    For Christians there is another reason for encouraging immigration. I explain what it is in this post on my blog:

    Immigration and evangelism | clydeherrin
    Clyde Herrin's Blog

  • #2
    Originally posted by theophilus View Post
    Of course we need to check the backgrounds of immigrants to avoid admitting those who would harm our country but it is easier to check the background of someone who is applying for a visa than that of someone who is sneaking into the country illegally.
    I believe the wall is a great thing, an object that will be there when someone is trying to bypass a background check by sneaking into the country. Some opponents suggest that the wall will accomplish nothing, it can be dug under or flown over above. To them I say, why lock the doors of your house? Why not just keep them open?

    God bless,
    William
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    • #3
      I have read it is estimated that it will take around 15 billion dollars to construct. Do y'all think it's a wise investment?
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      • #4
        It is if Trump is somehow able to get Mexico to pay for it.
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        • #5
          Yeah, we will have to see how things work out with Mexico come construction 👷.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by wfredeemed009 View Post
            I have read it is estimated that it will take around 15 billion dollars to construct. Do y'all think it's a wise investment?
            On the surface $15Bn dollars being put directly into the border, creating jobs, infrastructure, and in the future maintenance roles and contracts seems like it would be good for the economy. The wall itself? How many people died trying to cross the Berlin Wall? It won't stop the attempts. Hopefully it won't result in such fatal consequences.

            The proposed trade tariffs he is suggesting to pay for it are likely to cause more harm than good though. First they will be passed back to the American consumer in the form of increased prices, and second, trade treaties and WTO it leaves every other country permitted to raise their own tariffs against the US which will harm exporters. I can think of a few countries who would do that quite happily.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by theophilus View Post
              The United States used to welcome such people and many of them have made important contributions to our country.
              We still do. We just ask them to knock on the front door instead of breaking in by climbing through a window. We should treat our country like our home (because it is). Guests are welcome. Intruders are not. Just like our personal houses.

              I've seen nothing to suggest that legal immigrants are unwelcome.
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              • #8
                Illegal immigration is at the lowest rate it's been in 40 years, despite Trump's fear mongering, largely because Mexico's economy is doing well. Not exactly the best time to damage their economy by forcing them to foot the bill for a $15 billion wall, which will in turn increase the illegal immigration the wall is a symbolic defense against. Symbolic because there are large swaths of territory where building a wall will be virtually physically impossible.

                "The Wall" is like an idea a not particularly precocious eight-year-old might come up with.
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                • #9
                  I didn't say whether or not I agree with the wall, per se. I just noted that legal immigration is still allowed. People are still welcome here if they go about coming here through appropriate channels.

                  The interchangeable use of "immigrant" and "illegal immigrant" doesn't make for accurate arguments. There is a very real difference.

                  Also, doesn't Mexico protect its opposite border? Is that okay, or are they just being precocious too?
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                  • #10
                    One of the duties we have on this planet is not just to car for the people, but also the animals. There are many threatened and endangered species who would be disturbed and put even further at risk by the wall. the ocelot being one example.

                    One the subject of immigrants, being an immigrant myself I have to say the many broad generalizations I hear do make me feel sad. Americans live all around the world, just as people from all around the world live in America. I think there are more empathetic and compassionate approaches to border security than building a bloody great wall.

                    There is no wall that can't be climbed over or tunnels under, but the sight of it oppresses the spirit of the people on both sides whether it is in Israel or Berlin or anywhere. Building a wall makes the country a fortress and a prison instead of a garden and a community.
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                    • #11
                      I agree with you and thought of the wall makes me sick inside. It is like we are going backward in history instead of forward. I think that there are better ways to handle people trying to sneak over the border, which includes outreach and better partnership between Mexico and the US. People come from Mexico to have a better way of life. Yes, there are drug related issues as well, but it is mostly people who are just trying to support their families. God wants us to help fellow mankind, not barricade ourselves. I am extremely worried about the path our country is headed down and the current president. We need to promote love in this world and acceptance.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Rosyrain View Post
                        It is like we are going backward in history instead of forward.
                        How so? Do you mean away from the secular humanist (liberal/democrats) ideology to the Christian Right is backwards for our nation?

                        Originally posted by Rosyrain View Post
                        I think that there are better ways to handle people trying to sneak over the border, which includes outreach and better partnership between Mexico and the US. People come from Mexico to have a better way of life. Yes, there are drug related issues as well, but it is mostly people who are just trying to support their families.
                        And these ways can still be established with a wall. Mexico, for example has a wall on its Guatemala border. If people come from Mexico to have a better way of life then they'd have no problems following our immigration laws. If people do not wish to follow our laws why not stay in Mexico? There's a reason why America is desirable, and it begins with our laws. If these people are looking for a better life, I'm sure they would rather follow U.S. laws rather than the U.S. giving Mexico the border states to be run under a corrupt Mexican government. I don't see 99.9% of people climbing walls to gain access to Mexico but only the opposite. Those that want to get out of the United States to escape her laws are actually doing us a favor.

                        Originally posted by Rosyrain View Post
                        God wants us to help fellow mankind, not barricade ourselves.
                        What's stopping you? Is a wall stopping you from your own personal duty to your fellow man? The wall will be transparent to "legal" citizens. You can go to Mexico and help the people there. Unfortunately, those with Socialist ideology want to gamble with other people's safety and money which rears its ugly head to the tax payer when fighting illegal narcotics and crimes. Just look at the problems with countries such as Germany and France whose crime rates have sky rocketed. Even in Switzerland, one out of four women will now be assualted sexually.

                        You say that God wants us to help our fellow man, but does He want us to help our own people too? Have you considered Nehemiah 2:17 when God put in Nehemiah's heart to build a wall around Jerusalem?

                        Originally posted by Rosyrain View Post
                        I am extremely worried about the path our country is headed down and the current president.
                        I am extremely happy with the administration behind the new President. For the last 8 miserable years living under a man that has done his best to destroy America, this President's cabinet is a God send. Mind you, I'd much rather another man to be President as Trump was not my pick. But Trump won the Electorial vote because his policies are what the majority of Americans want, and that includes a grand wall. How many Constitutional Republicans riot because of leftist policies? For example, the recent 9 circuit ruling which suspended increased vetting? Nobody is rioting but that seems to be behaviorally acceptable to the left.

                        Originally posted by Rosyrain View Post
                        We need to promote love in this world and acceptance.
                        Yes, we should promote love, but what acceptance - should we condone lawlessness? Promoting the gospel through Evangelism is so important. In refugee camps, the liberal left opposes Christian Evangelism. We now have an opportunity to exercise our faith.

                        God bless,
                        William
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Psyche View Post
                          One of the duties we have on this planet is not just to car for the people, but also the animals. There are many threatened and endangered species who would be disturbed and put even further at risk by the wall. the ocelot being one example.

                          One the subject of immigrants, being an immigrant myself I have to say the many broad generalizations I hear do make me feel sad. Americans live all around the world, just as people from all around the world live in America. I think there are more empathetic and compassionate approaches to border security than building a bloody great wall.

                          There is no wall that can't be climbed over or tunnels under, but the sight of it oppresses the spirit of the people on both sides whether it is in Israel or Berlin or anywhere. Building a wall makes the country a fortress and a prison instead of a garden and a community.
                          Just curious, how many mammals actually migrate across the U.S. to Mexico through the desert? As far as I am aware, none. Only the Jaguar which is overpopulating Mexico is beginning to increase its presence in the U.S. southern states.

                          God bless,
                          William
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                          • #14
                            I am just wondering something. I'd bet all of you live in apartments, houses, etc. I would also bet all of you have locks on the doors and the windows and even some of you have alarm systems. Why? Do you endorse the idea that anyone at anytime may just enter your home if they have what they think is good reason?

                            Also, before those apartments and houses were built, they were habitats for animals. Were you not worried about those animals or was having a place to live more important?
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by William View Post
                              But Trump won the Electorial vote because his policies are what the majority of Americans want, and that includes a grand wall.
                              Not everyone who voted for Trump approves of all of his policies. Some of us voted for him because Clinton was worse.
                              Clyde Herrin's Blog
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