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    I don't know if this is fact or fiction and I have been mulling over how I should react if this is true, but I understand that the LCMS leadership has approved unordained seminarians presiding at the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper in direct contravention of Article XIV of the Augusburg Confession and its Apology. Is this so and if it is so, may this course that the LCMS leadership has taken be averted? I still have responsibilities in the church and have no desire to leave it, but I can't condone a practice that is in direct contradiction of the Lutheran Confessions. I ask this because the LCMS had for a few years utilized a Lay Ministry, which will be absorbed back into the regular Office of the Holy Ministry, so that aberration has been corrected.

  • #2
    As nothing has come from my searches and inquiries, I'll just tack this unsubstantiated rumor up as " violation of the Eighth Commandment" and merrily be on my way.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by ConfessionalLutheran View Post
      I don't know if this is fact or fiction and I have been mulling over how I should react if this is true, but I understand that the LCMS leadership has approved unordained seminarians presiding at the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper in direct contravention of Article XIV of the Augusburg Confession and its Apology. Is this so and if it is so, may this course that the LCMS leadership has taken be averted? I still have responsibilities in the church and have no desire to leave it, but I can't condone a practice that is in direct contradiction of the Lutheran Confessions. I ask this because the LCMS had for a few years utilized a Lay Ministry, which will be absorbed back into the regular Office of the Holy Ministry, so that aberration has been corrected.
      Exactly what is the violation? I'm a little unclear as to what "approved unordained seminarians presiding at the Sacrament" means....

      God bless,
      William
      Comment>

      • #4
        Originally posted by William View Post
        Exactly what is the violation? I'm a little unclear as to what "approved unordained seminarians presiding at the Sacrament" means....

        God bless,
        William
        I was also wondering about that.

        Comment>

        • #5
          Originally posted by William View Post

          Exactly what is the violation? I'm a little unclear as to what "approved unordained seminarians presiding at the Sacrament" means....

          God bless,
          William
          It violates Article XIV of the Augsburg Confession: " Of Ecclesiastical Order they teach that no one should publicly teach in the Church or administer the Sacraments unless he be regularly called." Only ordained ministers may preside over Holy Communion. That's the violation and it is a fairly serious one.
          Comment>

          • #6
            Originally posted by ConfessionalLutheran View Post

            It violates Article XIV of the Augsburg Confession: " Of Ecclesiastical Order they teach that no one should publicly teach in the Church or administer the Sacraments unless he be regularly called." Only ordained ministers may preside over Holy Communion. That's the violation and it is a fairly serious one.
            I believe only ordained ministers may provide over the Holy Communion at the Orthodox Presbyterian Church too.

            God bless,
            William
            Comment>

            • #7
              Originally posted by ConfessionalLutheran View Post

              It violates Article XIV of the Augsburg Confession: " Of Ecclesiastical Order they teach that no one should publicly teach in the Church or administer the Sacraments unless he be regularly called." Only ordained ministers may preside over Holy Communion. That's the violation and it is a fairly serious one.
              Does the Bible say anything about who can administer communion? I don't recall ever reading anything about this. If this is the case the Augsburg Confession's rule is simply a human tradition and can safely be ignored.

              Clyde Herrin's Blog
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              • #8
                In any event, this issue was already addressed at the Synodical Conference in Milwaukee last summer. The unordained Lay Ministers have been given notice that they would be given the opportunity to join the Office of the Holy Ministry ( properly, including canonical ordination) so they could continue their callings. I thought this was actually somethnig that had arisen since, but no. The news is old, the LCMS still adheres to the Confessions ( which we regard as a faithful extrapolation of Holy Scripture) and this bit of panicked knee- jerk reaction on my part has been acknowledged.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by theophilus View Post
                  Does the Bible say anything about who can administer communion? I don't recall ever reading anything about this. If this is the case the Augsburg Confession's rule is simply a human tradition and can safely be ignored.
                  Westminster Confession of Faith 27.3

                  IV. There are only two sacraments ordained by Christ our Lord in the Gospel; that is to say, Baptism, and the Supper of the Lord: neither of which may be dispensed by any, but by a minister of the Word lawfully ordained.
                  • Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
                  • 1 Corinthians 11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper. 23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread.
                  • 1 Corinthians 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
                  • Hebrews 5:4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

                  God bless,
                  William
                  Comment>

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by William View Post

                    Westminster Confession of Faith 27.3
                    • Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
                    • 1 Corinthians 11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper. 23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread.
                    • 1 Corinthians 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
                    • Hebrews 5:4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

                    God bless,
                    William
                    The Bible quotes show we are to observe communion but they say nothing about the qualifications of those who administer it. It appears to me that if you require someone to meet qualifications that aren't expressly stated in the Bible you are setting up a human tradition.
                    Clyde Herrin's Blog
                    Comment>

                    • #11
                      1 Corinthians 4:1 and Hebrews 5:4 should be read in its context. The WCF divines have a wonderful way of unpacking what they wrote into the context of the Scriptural references. The substance of these verses pertains to the office that has been laid on the shoulders of men like Paul, Peter, the other apostles, and lesser ministers like Apollos. They are "stewards," they have been entrusted with care of "God's mysteries."

                      God's bless,
                      William

                      Oh, and P.S. Theo, I notice most of the Reformed Churches that follow the Regulative Principle require ordained ministers. However, to a degree you're right, certain things are tradition, like how often we perform communion etc. That comes down to a matter of preference.
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