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  • After School Satan Clubs

    Child Evangelism Fellowship tries to reach school children with the gospel my means of Good News Clubs that meet in school buildings after the end of the school day. The Temple of Satan is planning to use the same method to spread its false gospel.

    An After School Satan Club could be coming to your kid’s elementary school - The Washington Post
    Clyde Herrin's Blog

  • #2
    These people are becoming quite the annoyance. They think they belong everywhere that Christianity goes. They don't seem to attack any other faith, only Christianity, so that tells me that they are very afraid of Christ and His Gospel. They desperately want to be seen and heard because they think they should be just as mainstream as the real church. They aren't, which is why they are trying so hard. These days, people need to guard their children with the ferocity of a mama grizzly to keep them out of the clutches of Satan.
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    • #3
      And the schools can not say no to them without getting sued. The good news is that the group will be small as other kids will think the group is weird. At least, based on my teaching experience.
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      • #4
        Well this is really one place that I do not want to see Satanism groups. The more that we can keep this type of thinking away from children the better off we all are, and I would be surprised to see that the school does not do something about it. It might be a little gray area when it comes to the law, but still I would think it would be against some sort of school policy. Who knows though, in these days, and I guess I will hope that someone will put a stop to it. I am curious to see where this goes from here, and thanks for sharing.
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        • #5
          We have to be keen and warn our children against such groups. Those who support devilish programs can get their way into schools through providing learning materials relevant to what they preach. They can also entice children by giving them money and other goods that children can accept. There should be rules put in place which allows teachers to ban such groups.
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          • #6
            Okay, so I'd recommend reading the article if you haven't already, it's actually really enlightening on the situation and the teachings that the "Satanic Group" will be teaching the children. I'm actually really impressed with what this guy Lucien Greaves is doing.

            If you don't want to read the article let me give a quick synopsis:
            1. The group has denounced all forms of supernaturalism (which include teachings of Satan and Hell and the such)
            2. The club emphasizes the importance of seeing multiple perspectives when it comes to believes and such. DQ- Lucien Greaves: "
            It’s critical that children understand that there are multiple perspectives on all issues, and that they have a choice in how they think."
            3. Main preaching are of Science instead of God (Subjects include: Evolution over Creationism, Big Bang over Creation of Universe, etc.)


            Man, I wish a group like this existed when I was younger haha. I'm a firm believer that someone should always see and understand multiple different views before making a decision and the same goes for religion. I was raised as a Christian and over the years I learned more about other religions and began to form my own beliefs as I grew older and finally I've reached the place I'm at now. I think that it's extremely healthy for people even children to begin forming their own opinions on this world and the things and people around them, whatever they may be.

            Now if I may, let me answer the main question here.

            1. Should this group be allowed to host here like the Christian group?
            Yes, I think they should. Besides the point that essentially they're promoting critical thinking and the formation of your own opinions and that you should see "both sides of the coin", I have to quote the 1st Amendment. Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion or Lack There Of. Even if they promoted actual Satanic ideals on how Satan is the eternal ruler or whatever (I don't have a clue what they preach (All I know is they have a Commandment against rape)), I think they should be allowed as long as they're not hurting anything (animals, people, etc.). Everyone should have the right to believe what they want and to try and teach people whatever they like, even if people don't agree with it. That doesn't make their opinion any less valid or correct.

            Anyway, what do you all else think concerning their teachings and whether they should be allowed to teach them?
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            • #7

              Originally posted by SeriousBacon View Post
              Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion or Lack There Of.
              We are not free to say Fire on an airplane. That is, we are not free to yell a lie out loud about a fire on an airplane. I think it ironic the group uses God's adversary, a deceiver, a liar etc etc to teach that curriculum. I for one as a Christian do not believe in "total" freedom of Speech. For example, we are not supposed to lie, gossip, slander etc. Basically an unbridled tongue is frowned upon.

              I think "religion" needs to be defined in its historical context with the framer's/author's intent. We've read articles here about Marijuana religions, and whatever. Should they be given equal rights in the school? To me they are just attention getters, and if you don't know their curriculum the question is whether the school and parent should experiment on the children and find out. What usually happens is that the Christian group will be terminated because most sane people are not going to allow the Satanic group to teach. I doubt that Satanic group really cares though about the children.

              I don't have anything good to say about the Public school system. Your point 3 is already being taught in public schools so what is so special about it? In my area Christian groups are in demand. There is a definite improvement in student behavior and academics. So much so that there are not enough Christian teachers to host the groups. I know this because our church provides teachers to local public schools. Lets urge the parent and school to think this through.

              Originally posted by SeriousBacon View Post
              Everyone should have the right to believe what they want and to try and teach people whatever they like, even if people don't agree with it. That doesn't make their opinion any less valid or correct.
              Do you believe some are closer to the truth than others? Yes or No. Just raise your hand in front of the computer if you will. You said as long as they don't hurt this or that, but everyone is allowed .... are they allowed to express what they believe right? You seem not to think so. Does the Satanic ideology promote a violence, deception, lies, etc? If no, why are they naming it Satanism?

              God bless,
              William
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              • #8
                We are not free to say Fire on an airplane. That is, we are not free to yell a lie out loud about a fire on an airplane.
                Correct, we can't say those things... Because they can cause danger. If I yell "FIRE!" on an plane, people can panic, rushing over others, and resulting in people getting hurt or possibly dying. This situation however, is not that. I understand what you meant by "yell a lie out" but to some people this belief is as true to them as Christianity is to you. Teaching children about scientific reasoning over religious reasoning isn't dangerous.

                To me they are just attention getters, and if you don't know their curriculum the question is whether the school and parent should experiment on the children and find out.
                I don't see this situation as them trying to get attention. About their curriculum, I'm sure you could easily find out about it, however I could be mistaken, but I mean, it's not too hard to guess.

                What usually happens is that the Christian group will be terminated because most sane people are not going to allow the Satanic group to teach. I doubt that Satanic group really cares though about the children.
                If they didn't that would just be showing favoritism. VERY GENERAL HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLE: If there's a rule that says "Anyone of any belief can have a cookie." and it's you and a person who believes in Satanism there. You have a cookie but the Satanic doesn't because the people handing out the cookies don't agree with his beliefs. That's wrong. Either both people should get cookies, or no one should, just the fairest way.

                That's just assuming the worst. I'd guess by your doubt that you assume the group only cares about teaching the children about evil and the wicked ways of the devil. That's like me saying that I doubt a Christian group cares about children and that all they want to do is teach children about hating gays and that sex before marriage sends you to hell.

                I don't have anything good to say about the Public school system. Your point 3 is already being taught in public schools so what is so special about it? In my area Christian groups are in demand. There is a definite improvement in student behavior and academics.
                I think public schools can do certain things better, yeah, I do have to agree partially on your point. My point 3 was only to make sure everyone knew what they taught (I assumed some people wouldn't understand my point 1).

                If there is an improvement in student behavior and academics then good on you and good for it. However, that doesn't mean that it would work everywhere. If there was a study that showed a correlation between Elementary Christian Groups and improved student behavior and academics then maybe I'd sing a different tune, but there's nothing significant to say it'd work everywhere.

                Lets urge the parent and school to think this through.
                I'm just going to be very blunt, there's really nothing that they can say about this. Personal rules from religion are great and all, but they don't apply to everybody. If they want to let the Christian group have a meeting or whatever, but not the "Satanic" group just because of their beliefs, that sucks. The rules of their government apply to everyone that lives under them. At the end of the day, our wants mean absolutely nothing. However, if it were to be taken to the Supreme Court, I have no idea who would win, as it could go either way: Equal rights/Liberal, Favoritive rights/Conservative.

                Do you believe some are closer to the truth than others? Yes or No. Just raise your hand in front of the computer if you will. You said as long as they don't hurt this or that, but everyone is allowed .... are they allowed to express what they believe right? You seem not to think so.
                I have no idea if someone's beliefs are closer to the truth than others, I really don't. No one really does. You could be wrong, I could be wrong, they could be wrong, no one can really know for sure. We can however believe in what we think is correct and run with that. So for an answer, IDK is the best answer I can give.

                Yes, the groups are allowed to express what they believe but come on. Obviously there needs to be some form of like reason. They still need to abide by the governments laws, and in this case that excludes animal abuse and human abuse (obviously there are exceptions to the human abuse rule but they're not going to slash some rando up in front of a bunch of children).

                Sorry if at some points I didn't make much sense, I'm up later than I usually am (2:48am where I live). If you would like me to clarify something please just bring it up and I'll be happy to.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by SeriousBacon View Post
                  If they didn't that would just be showing favoritism. VERY GENERAL HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLE: If there's a rule that says "Anyone of any belief can have a cookie." and it's you and a person who believes in Satanism there. You have a cookie but the Satanic doesn't because the people handing out the cookies don't agree with his beliefs. That's wrong. Either both people should get cookies, or no one should, just the fairest way.
                  You may want to read this: Supreme Court Justice Scalia: Constitution says government can favor religion | Religion News Service

                  And there's nothing wrong with the nation showing religious favoritism.

                  Originally posted by SeriousBacon View Post
                  I have no idea if someone's beliefs are closer to the truth than others, I really don't. No one really does. You could be wrong, I could be wrong, they could be wrong, no one can really know for sure. We can however believe in what we think is correct and run with that. So for an answer, IDK is the best answer I can give.
                  When you come to a red traffic light what do you do? Don't know? Does a highway center double yellow line prevent head on collisions? I'd hate to cross a bridge built by engineers that think the same way.

                  You keep using the word think, reason, etc. Are you familiar with what the Logos is?

                  God bless,
                  William
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                  • #10
                    You may want to read this: Supreme Court Justice Scalia: Constitution says government can favor religion | Religion News Service

                    And there's nothing wrong with the nation showing religious favoritism.
                    That's just Scalia's belief, and I personally think that it's ridiculous. However, he's Conservative and I'm Liberal so of course we'd harshly disagree on that.

                    And religious favoritism just leads us to becoming a Theocracy. Bad Theocracy governments include: Iran, "debatably" Nazi Germany, etc... Now, is a Theocracy bad? Eh, it can be. Usually yes to most people outside of the main religion. Do I want to see a Christian Theocracy here in America? No. Do I want to see any Theocracies? No. I think religion should be something that isn't forced on people, especially religions rules. Just because you follow a certain moral rule doesn't mean everyone else has to follow that rule too.


                    When you come to a red traffic light what do you do? Don't know? Does a center yellow prevent head on collisions? I'd hate to cross a bridge built by engineers that think the same way.

                    You keep using the work think, reason, etc. Are you familiar with what the Logos is?
                    I don't see how your traffic light comparison relates to "Do I think some are closer to the truth than others?" With a traffic light, it's obviously a yes or no situation. However, this is about beliefs, and beliefs have a certain gray area, that of uncertainty. That's the whole idea of Agnosticism, they don't really know if there is a god or not, but that's okay. That's a valid opinion. Things don't have to be black and white.

                    And I am aware what Logos is and yeah I make a point of writing like that when it comes to expressing and explaining my beliefs. I see my way of beliefs as more logical and yours as more abstract. I can't really wrap my head around a higher power who I don't know for certain is real, however you can. You can't really reach religion with logic. There's no way to really "get there" if you understand what I mean, it's hard for me to put it into words.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SeriousBacon View Post
                      I don't see how your traffic light comparison relates to "Do I think some are closer to the truth than others?" With a traffic light, it's obviously a yes or no situation. However, this is about beliefs, and beliefs have a certain gray area, that of uncertainty. That's the whole idea of Agnosticism, they don't really know if there is a god or not, but that's okay. That's a valid opinion. Things don't have to be black and white.
                      Hello Seriousbacon,

                      I was just curious whether you believe in absolutes (without a double yellow line or red traffic light the highways would be scattered with accidents). I also wanted to know whether you think some truth is more plausible than others. Some say there is no truth, and if you ask them to vote on it they raise their hand one way or another. Is it because they think they are closer to the truth? What you express is what parents need to decide whether to teach children to think the same way, that is, if you were pushing your post modern education (irony). You bring up Germany, more specifically Nazi Germany, if all beliefs are valid and they believed in murdering Jews as a society then who are we to say they are wrong?

                      Logical? Take for example the first two laws of thermodynamics. They prove that the universe is dying, using up its energy. Like a car it is running out of gas. The universe is becoming a very cold place. It has an ending, therefore it is finite. What is finite had a beginning. You said they teach the big bang, but Science has to show how something (the universe) can come from nothing. Christianity has always believed in ex nihilo. Matter of fact God says "I am that I am" or "He who causes to become" (the uncaused first cause). I think it is quite logical. What appears as illogical to me is to say something came from nothing without a Creator. Especially given the mathematical probability of that actually happening.

                      Just curious what does agnostic mean? In latin "don't know" means "ignoramus", if people want to call themselves that I am fine with it. Only if people dived into something with a clear mind with no presuppositions, they may actually come to the truth rather than suppress it. I'm just curious when people say that there is no God. How do they know that? That would require perfect omniscience, and knowing every place at all time omnipresence. Are they not claiming Satan's lies, it appears to echo from out of the Garden of Eden. Just some things to think about.

                      We have other threads here that you may be interested in.

                      Poll Question: Creationism, OEC or YEC? -Christforums
                      'Humans evolved after a female chimpanzee mated with a pig': Extraordinary claim made by American geneticist -Christforums

                      The above threads may get you off this subject and into some deeper topics. Hope to see you engage in other subjects. I'm off for bed though, until tomorrow....

                      God bless,
                      William
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                      • #12
                        Many Satanists claim they don't believe Satan is real. A lie. One of their core satanic tenets is "do as thou wilt" and that's exactly what they are going to teach children in schools. They don't have to get anyone to be a satanists all they have to do is teach kids something that will make them question the existence of God. Plant the seeds of doubt . . . that's their mission.
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                        • #13
                          The only way to shut them down is to convince the children not to go otherwise they will spread like rats. Because technically they are allowed to go anywhere Christians can because of America's freedom of religion and speech. It's problematic that they are showing such things in school though. I wonder if they could be kicked out if you could make a case they were showing teens inappropriate videos or materials.
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                          • #14
                            Because of the Constitution we can't fight satanism by passing laws against it and we shouldn't do that even if we could. Our battle against Satan is a spiritual battle and can only be won if we use spiritual weapons. The only effective way to defeat him is to be more active in teaching others the truth about Christ. The movement to start Satanic clubs is a response to the Good News Clubs started by Child Evangelism Fellowship and it seems to me that this is an indication that the Good News Clubs are effective in their outreach. We should thank God for them and pray that they will continue t faithfully present the gospel to school children.
                            Clyde Herrin's Blog
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                            • #15
                              I don't agree with it but technically it is still religion. As long as they aren't hurting anybody I don't care. If that's what they believe in and they are having intellectual conversation who cares what the group is about. There is a lot of things in this world I don't necessarily agree with but if they are doing it within the bounds of the law I have no problem with it.
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