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My two recent prayers

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  • My two recent prayers

    About three weeks ago I prayed that I be separated from my foreman at work because of his wicked ways and how they vexed my soul, and I prayed that he undergo financial suffering in hopes that it offers the chance for him to come to Christianity if all of this fell within the will of the Father. The next day he was fired out of the blue after working here for over a year.

    Just last week on Monday I prayed that my current foreman, a man who does not know God, undergo physical suffering while I am on his work crew so that he may be influenced to come to Christ. The next day he said his wife saw a rash across his waistband and he said his back was in intense pain. He left work early to go to an occupational health center and my boss told me that he had broken out with shingles!

    These are only two of several prayers of the like that I've been making since early Spring; most of which had instant obvious effects. They are done not out of spite, but out of love, and I figured these testimonies are worth sharing.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Trist View Post
    About three weeks ago I prayed that I be separated from my foreman at work because of his wicked ways and how they vexed my soul, and I prayed that he undergo financial suffering in hopes that it offers the chance for him to come to Christianity if all of this fell within the will of the Father. The next day he was fired out of the blue after working here for over a year.

    Just last week on Monday I prayed that my current foreman, a man who does not know God, undergo physical suffering while I am on his work crew so that he may be influenced to come to Christ. The next day he said his wife saw a rash across his waistband and he said his back was in intense pain. He left work early to go to an occupational health center and my boss told me that he had broken out with shingles!

    These are only two of several prayers of the like that I've been making since early Spring; most of which had instant obvious effects. They are done not out of spite, but out of love, and I figured these testimonies are worth sharing.
    Let me get this straight. You PRAYED that someone would undergo financial suffering. And you also PRAYED someone undergo physical suffering. You prayed that harm would come to others. I find that sick and twisted.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by Origen View Post
      Let me get this straight. You PRAYED that someone would undergo financial suffering. And you also PRAYED someone undergo physical suffering. You prayed that harm would come to others. I find that sick and twisted.
      It is for good; I am not spiteful. A month after I had done these prayers I found that I was doing a good thing. 1 Corinthians 5:5 KJV.
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      • #4
        Originally posted by Trist View Post
        It is for good; I am not spiteful. A month after I had done these prayers I found that I was doing a good thing. 1 Corinthians 5:5 KJV.
        That is your opinion and a poor opinion it is. Also do not take any more verses out of context. You do not know the Scriptures. First, 1 Corinthians 5:5 has to do with someone who was a member of the church. Second, Paul does not tell them to actively pray for his down fall, for harm to come to him. Third, this "handing this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh" is his removal from the church and thus the consequences of his own actions once removed from the church if he continues upon the same path. That case and your case are no where near being analogous.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Origen View Post
          That is your opinion and a poor opinion it is. Also do not take any more verses out of context. You do not know the Scriptures. First, 1 Corinthians 5:5 has to do with someone who was a member of the church. Second, Paul does not tell them to actively pray for his down fall, for harm to come to him. Third, this "handing this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh" is his removal from the church and thus the consequences of his own actions once removed from the church if he continues upon the same path. That case and your case are no where near being analogous.
          You say that I have prayed wrongly, but both of my prayers were answered immediately the next day in ways that were made manifest. How else should I pray that these men come to Christ? They do not need any more pleasures; they are blinded by pleasure. It is only through suffering and therefore the breaking of their wills that they can stand any chance.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Trist View Post
            You say that I have prayed wrongly, but both of my prayers were answered immediately the next day in ways that were made manifest. How else should I pray that these men come to Christ? They do not need any more pleasures; they are blinded by pleasure. It is only through suffering and therefore the breaking of their wills that they can stand any chance.
            Lets be clear. You PRAYED that someone would undergo financial suffering. And you also PRAYED someone undergo physical suffering. You prayed that harm would come to others. I find that sick and twisted. I find no reason to believe that God answer your prayer.

            Originally posted by Trist View Post
            How else should I pray that these men come to Christ?
            Really? You can't pray for someone to come to Christ without praying that some kind of harm comes upon them. How about just asking the Father, who is omniscience, to guide these people to Christ using HIS infinite wisdom, doing what He knows is best because He is omniscience. That does not seem so hard.
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            • #7
              Hi Trist, I have to agree with Origen here, how can you hand non-Christian men over to Satan? Are they not ALREADY in his hands? This teaching of St. Paul's is specific to "church" discipline. It concerns sinning saints alone, and it's certainly not meant to suggest evangelism by suffering.

              As far as praying goes in cases like these, just praying for each man's salvation is more than enough (and talking to them about the Gospel/showing them the patience, kindness, and love that the Lord has shown you, would be good things to do as well, yes :)).

              Do you really believe that God needs your suggestions/help when you pray to figure out the best way to bring these men to faith in Him? (I realize that I am echoing much of what Origen has already said and asked above. I am doing so in agreement with him)

              In Christ,
              David

              Romans 2
              4 Do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

              Simul Justus et Peccator ~Martin Luther

              "We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone" ~John Calvin

              "The Christian does not think God will love us because we are good, but that God will make us good because He loves us." ~C. S. Lewis

              "The secret is Christ in me, not me in a different set of circumstances" ~Elisabeth Elliot

              "The law is for the self-righteous to humble their pride; the Gospel is for the lost to remove their despair. ~C. H. Spurgeon
              Comment>

              • #8
                Was Elijah wrong to pray that it not rain on the entire Earth for three years?
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Trist View Post
                  Was Elijah wrong to pray that it not rain on the entire Earth for three years?
                  You are not Elijah. You are not a prophet chosen by God Himself. In fact you have a great deal of trouble understanding the context of Scripture.
                  Comment>

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Trist View Post
                    About three weeks ago I prayed that I be separated from my foreman at work because of his wicked ways and how they vexed my soul, and I prayed that he undergo financial suffering in hopes that it offers the chance for him to come to Christianity if all of this fell within the will of the Father. The next day he was fired out of the blue after working here for over a year.

                    Just last week on Monday I prayed that my current foreman, a man who does not know God, undergo physical suffering while I am on his work crew so that he may be influenced to come to Christ. The next day he said his wife saw a rash across his waistband and he said his back was in intense pain. He left work early to go to an occupational health center and my boss told me that he had broken out with shingles!

                    These are only two of several prayers of the like that I've been making since early Spring; most of which had instant obvious effects. They are done not out of spite, but out of love, and I figured these testimonies are worth sharing.
                    I think I will have to oppose with your view. Did not Jesus say love your enemy. I believe it is wrong to pray asking to inflict physical torture to a person even if he is your enemy. Prayer should be always used in the betterment of your self and people you care.
                    Comment>

                    • #11
                      The mods and luri and I agree.

                      Have either of those men come to Christ as a result?

                      We are to pray For people -- in a Loving , Concerned way - not with tough-love in your heart.
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                      • #12
                        Hello Trist, thank you for sharing, but I must know if your prayers bore any real fruit? Have either of your bosses come to repentance?
                        I think perhaps you should check your heart. Instead of praying for harm pray that God corrects you're heart that you would love the lost enough to speak to the lost boldly as you ought and pray for them as earnestly as a woman who has lost her son.
                        God Bless
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Trist View Post
                          These are only two of several prayers of the like that I've been making since early Spring; most of which had instant obvious effects. They are done not out of spite, but out of love, and I figured these testimonies are worth sharing.
                          I can think of a time during my freshman year of my Christian walk when I was totally angry at a person. The person was providing a house for drug dealings and two young children lived there. I came into the house and there was smoke from meth use. The children were running around in the house through the smoke cloud and I prayed a prayer for Justice and Wrath which I now regret. My heart was torn, not for me, but for the children.

                          Recalling Psalm 139

                          19 Oh that you would slay the wicked, O God!
                          O men of blood, depart from me! 20 They speak against you with malicious intent;
                          your enemies take your name in vain.[b]
                          21 Do I not hate those who hate you, O Lord?
                          And do I not loathe those who rise up against you?
                          22 I hate them with complete hatred;
                          I count them my enemies.

                          I understand this Psalm as David's heartfelt emotion, something we all feel at times. But I think there's a difference here between self-righteousness and godly-righteousness. In other words, this is consistent with Scriptures which teaches us that to love the world is to hate God.

                          So how do we pray for those that are worldly....

                          Originally posted by Trist View Post
                          How else should I pray that these men come to Christ?
                          Take the biblical statements of what God actually does in conversion and turn them into prayers. For example:

                          Lord, take out of his/her flesh the heart of stone and give him/her a heart of flesh. Cause him/her to walk in your statutes. Put love for yourself into his/her heart. Open the eyes of his/her heart to see the glory of the gospel. Grant repentance to him/her and free him/her from the devil. Make him/her alive together with Christ. Save him/her by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit.

                          God bless,
                          William
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                          • #14
                            @ William -- very good idea :)
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                            • #15
                              Trist I think it is not right to pray to God for someone to suffer. Like luri and others said prayers should always be for the betterment of someone and all the most of the religious scriptures say that even if he is an enemy you should not leave him to suffer. Please don't pray like this in future. You seriously need to change your opinion, my friend.
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