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Genesis.3:14

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  • Genesis.3:14

    "Upon thy belly shalt thou go"

    Did the Serpent have legs?

  • #2
    I am afraid I will answer your Bible query with biology: some snakes do actually have vestigial legs, although in most individuals they are now inside the skin. Pythons and boa constrictors both have legs bones embedded towards their tail ends, the remains of legs they presumably once walked on. Whether you believe it was God's curse or evolution that removed their legs, snakes used to walk.

    It gets more complicated if you consider the debate over whether the serpent was the first serpent or the devil's disguise which is a theology debate I am not going into.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by 2404 View Post
      "Upon thy belly shalt thou go"

      Did the Serpent have legs?
      There's no scriptural indication that the Serpent had legs. The Scriptures state that the curse would be “on your belly you shall go.” If we were to assume that there was some "other" form of locomotion happening then why not fly rather than walk? Could the serpent been some flying creature? Scripture doesn't state whether the serpent previously flew, walked, or slithered on its belly.

      Originally posted by ChatterBox View Post
      I am afraid I will answer your Bible query with biology: some snakes do actually have vestigial legs, although in most individuals they are now inside the skin. Pythons and boa constrictors both have legs bones embedded towards their tail ends, the remains of legs they presumably once walked on. Whether you believe it was God's curse or evolution that removed their legs, snakes used to walk.
      From a Creationist's Perspective: Do snakes and whales have hind limbs? | Creation Today

      Evolutionists often try to find what they want to find, and many times end up ignoring the actual facts. This is what some scientists do concerning snake “legs.” Snakes have what appear to be the “stump” of legs toward the back of their bodies. Evolutionary scientists claim that snakes were once lizards, but due to the processes of evolution, they lost their legs, and now they are left with nothing but short, useless limbs that simply “stick out.”

      Scientists have discovered that, like the whale, the snakes’ “legs” aid in their reproduction. But also, snakes use these short legs in fighting. Amazing! These “vestigial” organs are not vestigial at all. They all serve a purpose.

      God bless,
      William
      Comment>

      • #4
        Both good points.
        Not along my way of thinking but thank you...
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        • #5
          I would say let's look at the passage and not add anything to it but ask some questions which could clear the matter up for us at least somewhat.

          Does the verse say the serpent had legs? No.

          Does the verse say that the serpent its legs? No.

          Let's now look at the second part of the curse.

          "dust you shall eat"

          Do serpents actually eat dust? No.

          Any thought?
          Last edited by Origen; 03-31-2017, 12:03 PM.
          Comment>

          • #6
            Originally posted by Origen View Post
            I would say let's look at the passage and not add anything to it but ask some questions which could clear the matter up for us at least somewhat.

            Does the verse say the serpent had legs? No.

            Does the verse say that the lost its legs? No.

            Let's now look at the second part of the curse.

            "dust you shall eat"

            Do serpents actually eat dust? No.

            Any thought?
            My first thought is that this curse isn't placed on snakes in general, but that serpent of old, Satan.

            The dust brings stirs up the imagery from the path of someone's feet walking..... the Messiah's coming!

            God bless,
            William
            Comment>

            • #7
              Right. Like William said, it could have flown for all we know. "Dust you shall eat" just sounds like figurative language to me. Technically though, I bet some dirt/dust becomes ingested-as insignificant as that is. So even taken literally, it's true.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by William View Post

                My first thought is that this curse isn't placed on snakes in general, but that serpent of old, Satan.

                The dust brings stirs up the imagery from the path of someone's feet walking..... the Messiah's coming!
                We have a winner! Dave, tell William what he has won.

                "The proper exegesis award."

                Comment>

                • #9
                  Now let's ask ourselves another question. What was the serpent's motives? What was he trying to get Adam and Eve to do by telling to disobey God?
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Origen View Post
                    Now let's ask ourselves another question. What was the serpent's motives? What was he trying to get Adam and to do Eve by telling to disobey God?
                    To follow in his footsteps:

                    “Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols:
                    the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
                    How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
                    how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
                    For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven,
                    I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:
                    I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
                    I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
                    Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.”
                    (Isaiah 14:11-15)

                    Now consider:

                    "In the account of the Fall in Gen 3, after which God offered hope through the redemptive work of the LORD Jesus Christ implied in v. 15, we may observe the correlation between Satan’s sinful ambition to what he tempted Adam and Eve with, which eventually led the couple to sin against God and caused the entire humanity to be totally and hopelessly depraved and under the same condemnation that Lucifer has as a result. The correlation is clearly seen in Gen 3:5, when Satan, disguised as a serpent, said to Eve, “For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.” Here are the double lies being offered to Eve springing out of the same principle behind his botched coup attempt; first, that she would be like gods, and thus independent, able to rule over herself apart from God, and secondly, there is not one God, but many gods; each is sovereign over himself or herself." - A. Sutono

                    The Doctrine of Autonomous Self: A Hidden Idolatry -Christforums

                    Sound like "Free (Autonomous/Libertarian) Will? Now you have Pelagian/Arminian doctrine.

                    God bless,
                    William
                    Comment>

                    • #11
                      He was trying to first get them to doubt God so that they might disobey God and create separation between them. Right?
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by wfredeemed009 View Post
                        He was trying to first get them to doubt God so that they might disobey God and create separation between them. Right?
                        My thoughts,

                        I think Lucifer's desire was to be greater than God. When he failed and saw man's purpose and learned we are to even judge the angels (though he may not of been an 'angel' but rather a different heavenly creature (Seraph/Cherub), I can only imagine how that must of enraged Satan in his pride. To be so high, and brought low. Psalm 8:

                        8 O Lord, our Lord,
                        how majestic is your name in all the earth!
                        You have set your glory above the heavens.
                        2 Out of the mouth of babies and infants,
                        you have established strength because of your foes,
                        to still the enemy and the avenger.
                        3 When I look at your heavens, the work of your fingers,
                        the moon and the stars, which you have set in place,
                        4 what is man that you are mindful of him,
                        and the son of man that you care for him?
                        5 Yet you have made him a little lower than the heavenly beings[b]
                        and crowned him with glory and honor.
                        6 You have given him dominion over the works of your hands;
                        you have put all things under his feet,
                        7 all sheep and oxen,
                        and also the beasts of the field,
                        8 the birds of the heavens, and the fish of the sea,
                        whatever passes along the paths of the seas.
                        9 O Lord, our Lord,
                        how majestic is your name in all the earth!

                        In other words, if I were to speculate his motive I could easily suggest an act of jealousy.

                        God bless,
                        William
                        Comment>

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by William View Post

                          To follow in his footsteps:

                          “Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols:
                          the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
                          How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
                          how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
                          For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven,
                          I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:
                          I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
                          I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
                          Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.”
                          So he was usurping God's authority. He was trying to exalt himself. Now put that in context with the language of "going on your belly" and "eating dust." What does the language, given that understanding, mean?
                          Comment>

                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Origen View Post
                            So he was usurping God's authority. He was trying to exalt himself. Now put that in context with the language of "going on your belly" and "eating dust." What does the language, given that understanding, mean?
                            I posted right before you did. I think I answered it and will rest on what I posted. Satan committed self idolatry, and I believe both the two posts I made point to that.

                            Lucifer led a heavenly rebellion. He has done a wonderful job today, being a master craftsman at his trade by design.

                            I don't want to really allegorize the Scriptures, but Satan obviously bypassed Eve's obedience for empirical evidence and then reasoned away the commandment. Just to note, Satan himself didn't bear fruit, but it was strategic brilliance to put himself in a tree that did.

                            Your thoughts?

                            God bless,
                            William
                            Comment>

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by William View Post

                              I posted right before you did. I think I answered it and will rest on what I posted. Satan committed self idolatry, and I believe both the two posts I made point to that.

                              Lucifer led a heavenly rebellion. He has done a wonderful job today, being a master craftsman at his trade by design.

                              Your thoughts?

                              God bless,
                              William
                              No doubt but I am simply trying to understand the language within the context. By usurping God's authority he was exalting himself over his station. That self exalting had the opposite effect. Instead he is brought low, forced to the ground by the very one who's authority he was usurping. Now the language makes sense and there is no need to talk about if snakes had or did not have legs or if they really eat dirt or not.
                              Comment>
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