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  • Please hold while we redirect your call!

    [FONT=Lucida Grande]Welcome to Saint Jude's Psychiatric Hospital. Your call is important to us! Please choose one of the following options:[/FONT]

    [FONT=Lucida Grande]-If you are obsessive-compulsive, press 1 repeatedly.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Lucida Grande]-If you are co-dependent, ask your enabler to press 2.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Lucida Grande]-If you have Multiple Personality Disorder, press 3,4,5 and 6.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Lucida Grande]-If you are paranoid, we know who you are. Stay on line while we trace your call.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Lucida Grande]-If you have hallucinations, press 7 to transfer your call to the orbiting Mother Ship.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Lucida Grande]-If you are schizophrenic, listen carefully and a voice will tell you which button to press.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Lucida Grande]-If you are manic-depressive, you'll be miserable whichever button you press.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Lucida Grande]-If you have short-term amnesia, press 9.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Lucida Grande]-If you have short-term amnesia, press 9.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Lucida Grande]-If you have short-term amnesia, press 9.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Lucida Grande]-If you have poor self-esteem, hang up now. All of our operators have better things to do than waste their time on you.[/FONT]
    Clyde Herrin's Blog

  • #2
    I don't understand mental illness. To me, these "disorders" come down to immorality. I read that junk/trash hoarders suffer from a kind of obsessive-compulsive disorder. But, I see them as selfish people who don't want to give up any of their stuff because it's "mine, mine, mine". And, they keep bringing home new stuff not only to expand the number of toys they have (he who dies with the most toys wins), but also for the pleasure of having something new (or at least, new to them).

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Cornelius View Post
      I don't understand mental illness
      You should be thankful you have never experienced it.
      Clyde Herrin's Blog
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      • #4
        Cornelius, if it is true that you don't believe in something because you have not experienced it, how do you know you experienced salvation? How are you personally saved? I have seen mental illness from mild to severe; people born with half a face; I mean severe. And mild, where one can definitely tell when the patient has taken his meds and when he is off them, to the point of committing murder. Not believing in mental illness is like not believing in the flu. Many who are mentally ill don't know it.
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        • #5
          I don't doubt that meds can be somewhat effective in temporarily changing someone's behavior, but I still don't understand mental illness. I know people who would be called mentally ill,but I they still have minds to make choices, choices to trump feelings. Feelings themselves are malleable. We can use our intellect to change our feelings.

          I brought hoarding up as an example of OCD. I know several hoarders, a couple of them very well. They, with premeditation, put a lot of effort into buying things. I don't care how much they might feel like they want something, just knowing they don't need it, won't use it, and don't have room for it should trump any desire to have that something. And, for older hoarders, they are keenly aware that they're going to die and leave their mess behind, and someone else is going to shovel indiscriminately everything into dumpsters, throwing away both junk and real treasure.

          But, they are selfish people. They don't care that they don't need and won't use something. They don't care that someone else is going to be left cleaning up. They just want to enjoy acquiring and keeping.
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          • #6
            I had a hoarding neighbor. She not only did that, she lived with dog crap and maybe her own. Sanitation was not in her living. Then she abandoned it. Hard to say how much of that is illness and how much is not having been taught how to take care of herself. It's a case-by-case thing.
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            • #7
              Hoarders, from what I can tell, typically have pets. The worst hoarder I know is a lady, a housewife, a long-time widow and a dog enthusiast. She keeps several large dogs in her house, and they don't go outside for their duty. She's 80-ish, and lives with her middle-age son in a large house in good neighborhood. He doesn't work, maybe never worked. He is polite, but debilitatingly lacking in social skills. I detect no other disability with him. On a wall is a picture of our Founding Fathers, sitting cross-legged, with powdered wigs. She explained that's how a gentleman sits. It's how her son sits. Ironically, she thinks of herself as aristocratic and expresses hatred for her late husband for buying such an "ugly, boxy house" (what, no arched hallways?). She buys nice furniture and crams it into the the piles of of trash where the dogs and other factors quickly turn the nice furniture into junk. Among her junk are thousands of magazines (ironically, magazines like Good Housekeeping). I picked up a magazine once and asked her why she's keeping it. She indicated that it has a recipe it she wanted to try, or that there was a nice picture in it she wanted to keep (She, I, and you know she'll never use that recipe). She has many thousands of books (I doubt she has read any of them). She explained that a good home should have a good library. Add to that piles of dirty dishes, tones of plain trash, and whatever else fills such houses. Walls that need painting, flooring that needs replacing, windows that need cleaning, bathrooms that need to be flooded with chemicals... She pays for frequent landscaping and rescaping, but paying for an interior painter isn't an option.

              Hoarders are comfortable in their messes, not because they have a mental illness, but because they're accustomed to the mess and it's their mess (like every kid with a messy bedroom). So, it really comes down to selfishness, the desire to accumulate things for themselves. Sprinkle some laziness on top. But, I don't think hoarders are lazier than I am. It takes energy to build up a hoard and it takes energy to work around the junk.

              I don't think of that lady at all as mentally ill or suffering from a "disorder." I think of her as immoral. In this case, the lady is selfish, elitist, lazy, self-pitying, among other things. She aspires to fine living, but won't do anything to achieve that other than spend money someone else earned.

              So, when I say I don't understand mental illness, it's not for lack of knowing people who are "mentally ill" or for lack of considering the subject.
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              • #8
                Like I said, it is on a case-by-case basis. I know someone with the same aristocratically oriented personality who was clean and neat and did not hoard. What she had was above her means from someone else's money. She was not mentally ill, just put up her treasures on earth instead of in Heavenly places. BTW, you sound hateful. Have you preached the Gospel to her?
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cornelius View Post
                  So, when I say I don't understand mental illness, it's not for lack of knowing people who are "mentally ill" or for lack of considering the subject.
                  Well, you know me by what I write and share, and I am bi-polar. Social stress seems to aggravate or trigger my symptoms. Under extreme conditions, I have on occasion suffered from psychosis and wound up hospitalized. Explaining the symptoms to you is rather difficult, but they begin with rapid and repeated thoughts, imagine your inner voice or thoughts, and you parroting what you think. Now imagine multiple voices (distinct from your thinking voice) bombarding you simultaneously, and being confused by which one to speak. The result is confusion, during which time I have lost my ability to speak or form a complete sentence. I cannot even drive when manic. These thoughts later develop or strengthen into full blown visual and audible hallucinations depending on the level of stress, almost as if the thoughts are manifested into vocal personalities and then clothed into flesh. I am amazed that the mind can literally speak as real as any other voice without a mouth or larynx.

                  During episodes of mania, people are known to exhibit extreme behavior not associated with "normal". Obsessed behavior for example may result in increased spending which can be viewed in a negative light through shopping or gambling. Or in my case, one secular psychologist said my obsession was with religion, and asked whether I would consider taking a pill if they existed to rid of the obsession? I asked by what standard is something considered obsessive? For example, he had a phd, could others observe his one hundred thousand dollar debt towards a diploma that allows for increased spending to buy his own house and cars... obsessive? Apparently his obsession is with the human mind, would he take a pill if it eliminated all desire for psychology?

                  All I know is that it took me several years to accept that I have a disorder. Not accepting it had caused me to go on and off the medication. I would feel better, think I am over it and stop taking them - I ended up in the hospital. I received Christ, blamed my symptoms on sinful behavior and lack of restraint and stopped my medication - I ended up in the hospital. Off the medication I become a different person, although I still exhibit ill symptoms such as insomnia during manic stages even with medication.

                  As for the OP, I thought it was quite funny.

                  God bless,
                  William
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                  • #10
                    I understand emotions, feelings, and thoughts, can be difficult to control. And, can even be debilitatingly severe. But, I wouldn't label such things as mental illness. And, I'm not speaking to involuntary actions, but to premeditated and deliberate actions. As I said, we "still have minds to make choices, choices to trump feelings."

                    In less Politically Correct times, Bruce Jenner might have been diagnosed with some sort of Body Dysmorphic Disorder. I haven't heard his explanation of things, but suppose he feels ugly and envies women who can paint their faces and put on bright, pretty dresses. Okay, he feels ugly. I don't judge him for that. But, self-mutilation and cross-dressing is premeditated and I do judge him for that (never mind he wasn't an ugly man, but he is an ugly woman). I don't excuse it as a disorder or as a "choice." It's inexcusable. It's immoral.

                    Hoarding takes premeditated and deliberate actions.

                    I know some obsessively religious people. Occasionally, you hear about a child who dies from something easily treatable, dies because the parents, for religious reasons, refuse to get medical treatment for the child. That's immoral. It cannot be excused by religious zealousness.
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                    • #11
                      Interesting, this article had popped up on my facebook news feed not long ago:

                      The former psychiatrist in chief for Johns Hopkins Hospital is pouring rain on the Bruce Jenner “Call Me Caitlyn” parade that’s sure to have the former Olympic athlete’s cheerleaders steaming.

                      Not only does Dr. Paul R. McHugh consider changing sexes “biologically impossible,” he thinks being what is popularly called “transgender” these days is actually a “mental disorder.”

                      McHugh, who has authored six books and at least 125 peer-reviewed medical journal articles, made the statements in a piece he penned for the Wall Street Journal that argued surgery is not the solution for patients who want to live life as the opposite sex.

                      Such people, he wrote, suffer from a “disorder of assumption” in believing they can choose their sex.

                      The former psychiatrist in chief for Johns Hopkins Hospital is pouring rain on the Bruce Jenner “Call Me Caitlyn” parade that’s sure to have the former Olympic athlete’s cheerleaders steaming.

                      Not only does Dr. Paul R. McHugh consider changing sexes “biologically impossible,” he thinks being what is popularly called “transgender” these days is actually a “mental disorder.”

                      McHugh, who has authored six books and at least 125 peer-reviewed medical journal articles, made the statements in a piece he penned for the Wall Street Journal that argued surgery is not the solution for patients who want to live life as the opposite sex.

                      Such people, he wrote, suffer from a “disorder of assumption” in believing they can choose their sex.

                      “This intensely felt sense of being transgendered constitutes a mental disorder in two respects. The first is that the idea of sex misalignment is simply mistaken – it does not correspond with physical reality,” McHugh wrote. “The second is that it can lead to grim psychological outcomes.”

                      The transgendered person’s disorder, said Dr. McHugh, is in the person’s “assumption” that they are different than the physical reality of their body, their maleness or femaleness, as assigned by nature. It is a disorder similar to a “dangerously thin” person suffering anorexia who looks in the mirror and thinks they are “overweight,” said McHugh.

                      This assumption, that one’s gender is only in the mind regardless of anatomical reality, has led some transgendered people to push for social acceptance and affirmation of their own subjective “personal truth,” said Dr. McHugh. As a result, some states – California, New Jersey, and Massachusetts – have passed laws barring psychiatrists, “even with parental permission, from striving to restore natural gender feelings to a transgender minor,” he said.

                      The pro-transgender advocates do not want to know, said McHugh, that studies show between 70% and 80% of children who express transgender feelings “spontaneously lose those feelings” over time. Also, for those who had sexual reassignment surgery, most said they were “satisfied” with the operation “but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn’t have the surgery.”

                      “And so at Hopkins we stopped doing sex-reassignment surgery, since producing a ‘satisfied’ but still troubled patient seemed an inadequate reason for surgically amputating normal organs,” said Dr. McHugh.

                      The former Johns Hopkins chief of psychiatry also warned against enabling or encouraging certain subgroups of the transgendered, such as young people “susceptible to suggestion from ‘everything is normal’ sex education,” and the schools’ “diversity counselors” who, like “cult leaders,” may “encourage these young people to distance themselves from their families and offer advice on rebutting arguments against having transgender surgery.”

                      Dr. McHugh also reported that there are “misguided doctors” who, working with very young children who seem to imitate the opposite sex, will administer “puberty-delaying hormones to render later sex-change surgeries less onerous – even though the drugs stunt the children’s growth and risk causing sterility.”

                      Such action comes “close to child abuse,” said Dr. McHugh, given that close to 80% of those kids will “abandon their confusion and grow naturally into adult life if untreated ….”

                      He went on to write that changing sexes is impossible and that what transgendered people actually do is “become feminized men or masculinized women.”

                      While there are scientists who disagree, it is important to question whether health professionals, politicians and the media are doing more harm than good by enabling people who believe they were born the wrong sex to go to such extremes.

                      For millennia, the first rule of Western medicine has been summed up as “do no harm.”

                      There’s a reason for that.
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                      • #12
                        Post 11 makes a sound point or two. I can attest to biological mental disorder due to chemical imbalances in the brain. Certain medications, found mostly through trial and error, help restore the patient to more normal mental states. I have personal experience in this area as well, but to a lesser degree than the above post #9. Anxiety so bad it is debilitating causing me to latch onto something physical and not let go, and just pacing the floor. Feeling totally wired up as though in a state of shock. PTSD is certainly a mental disorder caused by extreme mental trauma. When I take my meds, I too am restored to near normal state. My father suffered from PTSD after WWII. Myself, to some degree after a bad fire (I was nearly killed) when I was a firefighter. We all have our breaking points. Some, it is not breaking points but illness alone. There are also people who are possessed by devils. This has proved conclusive. Denying these things does nothing good. Resisting them helps, especially where we are to resist the devil and he will flee from us. Not everything is man's choice.
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