Christian Universalism is a school of Christian theology which includes the belief in the doctrine of universal reconciliation, the view that all human beings and fallen angels will ultimately be restored to right relationship with God in Heaven.

Confusion

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    Confusion

    I'll admit, I don't entirely understand this doctrine. If you've ever worked with criminals or abusers, you'll be familiar with the fact that even when confronted with certain proof of deeds, sometimes even after trial and sentencing, certain of them don't think they did anything wrong - even while admitting they did the deed. It is so core to their identity that they can't comprehend not being allowed to lie, steal, or manipulate, because sometimes they can't recognise that is what they are doing and sometimes they don't care. If people are utterly unrepentant, how they supposed to be saved when they don't wish to be? God's mercy is infinite, but if you believe in the doctrine of free will, people can reject it.

    Is there meant to be a Damascene conversion for everyone who is unrepentant? Or is it supposed to be that after death there is an ongoing refinement, like purgatory, and eventually all will be reconciled?

    The mechanics of this eludes me, probably because it isn't a doctrine my church teaches.

    #2
    Hi CB, if we could be "refined", IOW, made better and better in a place like Purgatory following this life, then why the Cross? That is, if we can be made 'inherently' righteous by years (or even millennia) of refinement, then why did God send His Son here to die that horrible death on the Cross? Even the 'thought' of doing such a thing on God's part would be, at the very least, sadistic, would it not?

    I also have to admit to being confused, because you seem to be asking how the "unrepentant" will eventually be saved? (perhaps I am misunderstanding you however?)

    If I am not misunderstanding you, then the simple answer is, they won't be!

    They are, in fact, already condemned, even while they live (according to the Bible), because they do not believe, and as a result, they do not choose to obey, nor can they .. i.e. John 3:18; 1 Corinthians 2:14. God's punishment of the unbelieving/impenitent among us is ETERNAL .. i.e. Matthew 25:41; Revelation 20:10.

    Yours in Christ,
    David
    p.s. - St. Paul tells us:

    "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him" ~2 Cor 5:21

    Please read that verse carefully, because it tells us something truly INCREDIBLE in regard to the idea of "refinement" that you spoke of above. IOW, though Christ, we not only become "righteous", we become the very "righteousness of God" (which is something infinitely more than that). So what possible reason could there be for spending millions of years in pain and torment trying to burn away our very last sinful thought (not that it is possible to do that anyway), when we become so much more than that by grace through faith, by simply being "in Christ"? .. granted, I am speaking specifically of our existence in the next age since we continue to be plagued with and have to do battle against our old, sinful nature on this side of Glory.
    Last edited by David Lee; 01-27-2017, 04:55 AM.
    Simul Justus et Peccator ~Martin Luther

    "We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone" ~John Calvin

    "Instead of a river, God often gives us a brook, which may be running today and dried up tomorrow. Why? To teach us not to rest in our blessings, but in the Blesser Himself." ~A. W. Pink

    "The secret is Christ in me, not me in a different set of circumstances" ~Elisabeth Elliot

    "The law is for the self-righteous to humble their pride; the Gospel is for the lost to remove their despair. ~C. H. Spurgeon
    Comment>

      #3
      Originally posted by David Lee View Post
      I also have to admit to being confused, because you seem to be asking how the "unrepentant" will eventually be saved? (perhaps I am misunderstanding you however?)

      If I am not misunderstanding you, then the simple answer is, they won't be!
      I think we're arguing the same thing. I encountered a street preacher who was preaching that all shall be saved, which appears to be the universalist doctrine, not one I agree with.

      I just don't understand how those who follow this doctrine think that the unrepentant are going to be saved, and was hoping someone on here could explain it.
      Comment>

        #4
        Originally posted by ChatterBox View Post
        I just don't understand how those who follow this doctrine think that the unrepentant are going to be saved, and was hoping someone on here could explain it.
        Universalist actually find God's Righteousness and Justice to be incompatible with His love. Often they'll accuse "biblical" Christians as being intolerant or exclusive, but what they're actually doing is rejecting Jesus' clear teaching on the subject of hell in Scripture. They're also undermining the necessity of the Atonement and Propitiation.

        God bless,
        William
        Comment>

          #5
          Originally posted by ChatterBox View Post
          I think we're arguing the same thing. I encountered a street preacher who was preaching that all shall be saved, which appears to be the universalist doctrine, not one I agree with.
          Hi CB, good to know, and sorry about the confusion on my part. William is correct, Universalists dismiss clear Biblical teaching in their attempt to create a palatable "God" in the image that least offends their particular set of sensibilities :eek:

          The worship of a "god" in the image of one's own making is called idolatry. And as our new POTUS might Tweet, "Not Good" :)
          Simul Justus et Peccator ~Martin Luther

          "We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone" ~John Calvin

          "Instead of a river, God often gives us a brook, which may be running today and dried up tomorrow. Why? To teach us not to rest in our blessings, but in the Blesser Himself." ~A. W. Pink

          "The secret is Christ in me, not me in a different set of circumstances" ~Elisabeth Elliot

          "The law is for the self-righteous to humble their pride; the Gospel is for the lost to remove their despair. ~C. H. Spurgeon
          Comment>
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