Perfectionism is a doctrine holding that religious, moral, social, or political perfection is attainable, especially the theory that human moral or spiritual perfection should be or has been attained.

Does the Bible Say True Christians Never Sin?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by David Lee View Post
    The problem with that formula is that our progenitor's "mortal sin" was taking a bite out of an apple. I don't see that one in St. Paul's list, and if taking a bite out of an apple is "mortal", and is so bad that it caused the spiritual death of the entire human race, what lesser sins (than taking a bite out of an apple) can you come up with to list as "venial"?
    Sorry to cut in slightly, but isn't there a slight distinction to be made here? The action was taking a bite from an apple, but the sin was disobeying God's command.

    I know the Catholic distinction between venal and mortal sin seems to be based on the ten commandments, but it isn't something I am that familiar with.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by ChatterBox View Post
      Sorry to cut in slightly, but isn't there a slight distinction to be made here? The action was taking a bite from an apple, but the sin was disobeying God's command.

      I know the Catholic distinction between venal and mortal sin seems to be based on the ten commandments, but it isn't something I am that familiar with.
      Hi CB, yes, our progenitors' sin was disobedience, which I believe was a big part of my point. ALL sins are disobedient acts against a Holy God. Our RC friends however, make a distinction between a sin/disobedience that is truly "grievous" (and therefore "mortal"), and a sin/disobedience that is not so grievous (called "venial"). Murder vs a white lie, or something like that.

      My point was/is, if the disobedient act of taking a bite out of an apple is a "mortal" sin, so grievous, in fact, that it caused the death of the entire human race, what sinful/disobedient act is there that could possibly be described as "venial" then?? (because how much further away from "GRIEVOUS" can you get than taking a bite out of an apple?)

      Hope that helps explain it. In a nutshell, I don't believe there are venial sins, just mortal sins (as I believe the apple in the Garden does a pretty good job of demonstrating), though there is another "kind" of mortal sin, a sin that, once committed, will never be forgiven .. Matthew 12:31-32.

      Yours and His,
      David
      Simul Justus et Peccator ~Martin Luther

      "We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone" ~John Calvin

      "The Christian does not think God will love us because we are good, but that God will make us good because He loves us." ~C. S. Lewis

      "The secret is Christ in me, not me in a different set of circumstances" ~Elisabeth Elliot

      "The law is for the self-righteous to humble their pride; the Gospel is for the lost to remove their despair. ~C. H. Spurgeon
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      • #33
        Originally posted by David Lee

        Hi CB, yes, our progenitors' sin was disobedience, which I believe was a big part of my point. ALL sins are disobedient acts against a Holy God. Our RC friends however, make a distinction between a sin/disobedience that is truly "grievous" (and therefore "mortal"), and a sin/disobedience that is not so grievous (called "venial"). Murder vs a white lie, or something like that.

        My point was/is, if the disobedient act of taking a bite out of an apple is a "mortal" sin, so grievous, in fact, that it caused the death of the entire human race, what sinful/disobedient act is there that could possibly be described as "venial" then?? (because how much further away from "GRIEVOUS" can you get than taking a bite out of an apple?)

        Hope that helps explain it. In a nutshell, I don't believe there are venial sins, just mortal sins (as I believe the apple in the Garden does a pretty good job of demonstrating), though there is another "kind" of mortal sin, a sin that, once committed, will never be forgiven .. Matthew 12:31-32.

        Yours and His,
        David

        I don't remember their being a sin-ranking system in the Bible myself.
        Comment>

        • #34
          Does the Bible Say True Christians Never Sin? Good article William.

          To those who insist that a Christian never sins I offer the following examples for you to consider.

          Galatians 2:13
          The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. (NASB)
          1. Was Peter a Christian at the time of his "hypocrisy" from which he would later command Christians to avoid (1 Peter 2:1)?

          Revelation 19:10
          Then I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” (NASB)
          1. In the above passage the Apostle John falls to the sin of idolatry.
          2. Because he had sinned the angel immediately told John that he shouldn't do that. Notice however what the angel did not say to him:
          a. I (once) was a fellow servant of yours.
          b. I used to be a fellow servant of yours.
          The angel did respond by saying, I am a fellow servant of yours.
          This means that despite John's sin he still belonged with the other members of God's community as a fellow servant.
          Comment>

          • #35
            Originally posted by wfredeemed009 View Post
            I don't remember their being a sin-ranking system in the Bible myself.
            The Jews of that time period who "delivered" Christ up to Pilate committed the "greater sin" (John 19:11; cf. Acts 3:13, 17).

            See also Luke 12:47-48.

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            • #36
              It's foolhardy to believe that once someone becomes a Christian they are above sinning. We are human beings and the Bible tells us we are not perfect but that doesn't mean we may go on deliberately sinning and then we ask for forgiveness. Life makes allowances for accidents and that's why when there is accident persons are not charged for murder because it was a mishap. The thing to do is to seek to avoid the mishaps as much as possible but God will know when whatever happened may not have been intentional.
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