Perfectionism is a doctrine holding that religious, moral, social, or political perfection is attainable, especially the theory that human moral or spiritual perfection should be or has been attained.

How does one come to know God?

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  • How does one come to know God?

    Do you believe that you know God?

    Do you still deliberately commit wrong doings/sin? If you do then you don’t know God.

    (1 John 3: 5 - 6) “Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him.”

    Most people, it seems believe on can enter the kingdom of heaven even if they don’t know God.

    Jesus told us he does not know those who do not live the will of the Father in Heaven. Not living the will of the Father is sin.

    (Matthew 7:21) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”




  • #2
    We come to know God by belief and by grace, through the faith in Him which comes from Him: Ephesians 2:8-10 Jesus death abolished all our sin by His works, not ours. You still think under the OT law.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by Stratcat View Post
      We come to know God by belief and by grace, through the faith in Him which comes from Him: Ephesians 2:8-10 Jesus death abolished all our sin by His works, not ours. You still think under the OT law.

      Show me where that scripture you quoted is applying to you.

      Yes it is God’s work/grace in a Spiritual Christian that gives him or her the power to live God’s Word. Those who live God’s Word are God’s light to the world.

      A Spiritual Christian is giving all the glory to God for his or her ability to defeat Satan/sin.

      Jesus told us who it is that love him, and it is not to those who don’t live God’s Commandments.

      (John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”
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      • #4
        What does it mean to "keep God's word"?
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Stratcat View Post
          What does it mean to "keep God's word"?

          (1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did”

          John gives you an answer to your question.

          I personally believe you knew what keeping God’s Word meant.




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          • #6
            Once again, it depends on the translation of the Bible one uses: "He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." - KJV The ESV is similar. - 1 John 2:6 No one completely walks incorruptibly in this life, but believers shall in the next. Did you say you use the Jerusalem Bible?
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            • #7
              Originally posted by Stratcat View Post
              Once again, it depends on the translation of the Bible one uses: "He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." - KJV The ESV is similar. - 1 John 2:6 No one completely walks incorruptibly in this life, but believers shall in the next. Did you say you use the Jerusalem Bible?

              Most of my quotes are from the Jerusalem Bible, but have and do use others also.

              Jesus told us that to love him we needed to keep his commandments. That is doing the will of the Father in Heaven. Doing the will of the Father is the only way one will enter into the kingdom of Heaven.

              (John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”
              (John 14:21) “Anybody who receives my commandments and keeps them will be one who loves me; and anybody who loves me will be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and show myself to him.”

              People truly need to read the above scripture, and if they have not seen Jesus, then they should know that they are not keeping God’s Word.




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              • #8
                Then what did Jesus die for?
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Stratcat View Post
                  Once again, it depends on the translation of the Bible one uses: "He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." - KJV The ESV is similar. - 1 John 2:6 No one completely walks incorruptibly in this life, but believers shall in the next. Did you say you use the Jerusalem Bible?

                  The word "ought" is a little weak for the meaning of the Greek word. Christians are obligated, or required, to walk as Jesus walked. It's the same word that would be used if you owed a debt for a car. Not paying isn't an option, unless you want your car repossessed.
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                  • #10
                    Philippians 1:6; 2:12-13

                    We must still depend on the Grace of God. It is God's work in us that causes us to perform good works and not of our own. While the children of God should differ than that of the children of men, I personally think JohnLove's position attempts to strike doubt into the believers' heart about the works being performed within them by God. We are not Glorified until hereafter. Christ brings people to an obedience to Himself. His obedience for them does not exempt them from obedience to Him, though their obedience is no cause of their salvation - Christ himself is the alone author of that.

                    God bless,
                    William
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Stratcat View Post
                      Then what did Jesus die for?

                      Jesus came to defeat Satan/sin.
                      He died as sacrifice for all the sins one committed before one was given the Holy Spirit, which gave God’s people the grace to defeat Satan/sin.

                      (1 John 3:8) “Whoever lives sinfully belongs to the devil, since the devil has been a sinner from the beginning. This was the purpose of the appearing of the Son of God, to undo the work of the devil.”

                      Notice John said what the purpose for Jesus to come.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JohnLove View Post
                        Jesus came to defeat Satan/sin.
                        He died as sacrifice for all the sins one committed before one was given the Holy Spirit, which gave God’s people the grace to defeat Satan/sin.

                        (1 John 3:8) “Whoever lives sinfully belongs to the devil, since the devil has been a sinner from the beginning. This was the purpose of the appearing of the Son of God, to undo the work of the devil.”

                        Notice John said what the purpose for Jesus to come.
                        I noticed you use the Catholic encyclopedia, nice picture of the pope. :confused:

                        God bless,
                        William
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by William View Post

                          I noticed you use the Catholic encyclopedia, nice picture of the pope. :confused:

                          God bless,
                          William

                          I have even used the KJV, and the Holy Spirit gives me the correct understanding even when using such an inaccurate translation as it is.
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                          • #14
                            Stratcat I'm actually looking forward to hearing your arguments against Johnlove (entertaining). I find them very similar to yours when caught up in an opposing view.

                            God bless,
                            William
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JohnLove View Post


                              I have even used the KJV, and the Holy Spirit gives me the correct understanding even when using such an inaccurate translation as it is.
                              Now you have my curiosity. Which do you concur?
                              1. Protestant consensus has been that justification is in no sense grounded in or conditioned on our sanctification.
                              2. Catholicism, on the other hand, mingles justification and sanctification, making sanctification a prerequisite to final justification.

                              Do you believe Jesus Christ "obeyed for us," or do you believe that since Christ was Himself obligated to render full obedience to the law, His obedience could justify Himself alone? Do you believe that justification ultimately hinges on the believer's own performance, and not Christ's?

                              God bless,
                              William
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