The forum for teaching, teachers and teachers-to-be.

Some Things About Hell

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Some Things About Hell

    Not much is mentioned about hell in churches today. There is a lot mentioned in the Bible, however. For instance, the trip to hell is definitely downward to the innermost parts of the earth. When a non-believer dies, their soul immediately leaves their dead body and descends downward through the utter darkness all alone, through the crust and mantle of the earth where the soul encounters deep waters. The waters are so deep, scientists have recently discovered them by reading soundings due to earthquakes which allow them to detect just what the vibrations of the earthquakes go through, and deep water deep in the earth is one of the echoes. They estimate there is about 3x the amount of water as in all the oceans combined. The soul traverses downwards, drowning in these waters alive, deep, deep deeper, until reach muck and mire. The soul then chokes on this muck, and after passing through it, reaches bars on the sides of the bottomless pit. The bars are prison cells where souls are held awaiting the day of the White Throne Judgement. Deeper the soul goes, and into the prison gates of hell, which open, letting the soul enter, then close behind him. The soul is directed into a cell with bars.

    After the judgement, hell will be cast into the lake of fire for eternity. It is of burning fire and brimstone. In the OT, this is the torment side of hell. There was a great gulf fixed separating the torment side of hell from the Paradise side of hell, which no man could cross. In the NT, when Jesus died, He sent the thief with him that believes in the Lord to the Paradise side of hell. Jesus, however, did not go to the Paradise side at first; He went into the deepest depths of the torment side of hell, and the gates of hell could not prevail against Him, nor could they hold Him, for He alone has the keys. After a short stay in the depths of hell, where He was purified from man's sins which He took upon Himself and had to go to the place of punishment for to complete the transformation, the Father moved Jesus through the gulf to the Paradise side of hell where He then raised Paradise up to Heaven, leaving only the torment behind. Hell is a place where there is unrelenting torment for eternity. Some false doctrine says it is not for eternity, but they are wrong.

    Jesus suffered everything as a human being and at His death, suffered the fate of the unbeliever, as He became sin to remove the sin of man and burn it up in hell by going there as a sinner who was unforgiven would do. Because He is Lord, the Father removed Him from torment and saw that thief the same day in Paradise, among the other OT saints. Those who believe in Christ as their Savior are purified by the blood. Those who refuse Jesus as Savior are not purified and go to hell, then to the lake of fire, two separate places. The believing and not believing is where we are predestined to salvation or damnation, according to God's plan. That is another thread. This is about hell, and is understated in today's churches. Naturally, I would not say these things about hell if I could not substantiate them in scripture. I can do it, but it is a lot of work, and right now I have a sprained ankle that is giving me grief.

    Things to look up in your concordance might be words like hell, lake, fire, brimstone, prison, bars, water, muck, mud, mire, gates, bottomless, pit, keys, deepest, depths, darkness, gulf, paradise, torment, smoke, and more.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Stratcat View Post
    The [lost] soul traverses downwards, drowning in these waters alive, deep, deep deeper, until reach muck and mire. The soul then chokes on this muck, and after passing through it, reaches bars on the sides of the bottomless pit.
    Where does that come from?

    The dead are dead until raised for judgement. The righteous are given eternal life and the wicked are destroyed.

    Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. 14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
    Comment>

    • #3
      How does the lost soul traverse into hell? The answers to the OP:

      First, the saved are carried by angels in Abraham's bosom, the Paradise side of hell: 2 Chronicles 34:28 and Luke 16:22.

      The lost souls, and which Jesus also had to traverse, only for a brief time in hell, while for the lost it was permanent, first in the prison, then the judgement, then the lake of fire. The lost were briefly brought out of prison to the Great White Throne to be judged as lost souls. Jesus was not judged here, but on the cross:

      From Luke 16:22, Job 27:19-23, Psalm 73:18-19, Isaiah 53:10 (which speaks of Jesus), Psalm 42:5-7, Psalm 69:1-2, Psalm 69:14-15, Psalm 40:2, John 2:2-6, Job 25:6 and Psalm 22:6 and Mark 9:43-44, and Isaiah 14:11 (the worm); Jesus goes to hell as a lost sinner, as some of the above verses also apply to Jesus and are not repeated below:

      John 19:13, Psalm 88:4, Psalm 88:6, Psalm 116:3, Matthew 26:39, Psalm 40:17, Acts 2:27, Psalm 142:7.

      How do we know these verses were speaking of Jesus? They were being experienced and only the Lord could come out of hell and the deepest of the pit and tell us of the experiences He faced. The Psalms were highly prophetic in themselves.

      The above was from the author of the book, Hell God's Prison was written by Gary Paul Miller, who also wrote another good book, The Way of Cain. The only negative I saw in these books is that the author is Arminian in belief, but the facts in scripture regarding the topics are not affected.
      Comment>

      • #4
        Originally posted by Stratcat View Post
        How does the lost soul traverse into hell? The answers to the OP:

        First, the saved are carried by angels in Abraham's bosom, the Paradise side of hell: 2 Chronicles 34:28 and Luke 16:22.
        Neither of those verses have anything to do with what comes after death. The first is a promise of dying peacefully before God enacts violent judgement in the land. The second is a non-literal parable serving as an indictment against unbelieving Jews.

        The lost souls, and which Jesus also had to traverse, only for a brief time in hell, while for the lost it was permanent, first in the prison, then the judgement, then the lake of fire. The lost were briefly brought out of prison to the Great White Throne to be judged as lost souls. Jesus was not judged here, but on the cross:
        Jesus died and went to the grave, where dead people go, without consciousness, awaiting resurrection.
        Comment>

        • #5
          Originally posted by Cornelius View Post
          Jesus died and went to the grave, where dead people go, without consciousness, awaiting resurrection.
          Where does it say this?

          Your first 2 points I have to disagree with. To me, sounds like personal conjecture. I notice a lot of disagreement with some about what the scriptures teach is from confusion about what is literal and what isn't. Neither person wants to admit they are the one confused, and at times I am not above that mentality myself. Still we should know what the truth is, and it may take further study.
          Comment>

          • #6
            2 Chronicles 34 contains a prophecy of the destruction of the kingdom of Judea, but the prophet tells that the destruction won't happen until after the death of the righteous king Josiah:

            2Chr 34:24Thus says the Lord, Behold, I will bring disaster upon this place and upon its inhabitants, all the curses that are written in the book that was read before the king of Judah. 25 Because they have forsaken me and have made offerings to other gods, that they might provoke me to anger with all the works of their hands, therefore my wrath will be poured out on this place and will not be quenched. 26 But to the king of Judah, who sent you to inquire of the Lord, thus shall you say to him, Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel: Regarding the words that you have heard, 27 because your heart was tender and you humbled yourself before God when you heard his words against this place and its inhabitants, and you have humbled yourself before me and have torn your clothes and wept before me, I also have heard you, declares the Lord. 28 Behold, I will gather you [king Josiah] to your fathers, and you shall be gathered to your grave in peace, and your eyes shall not see all the disaster that I will bring upon this place and its inhabitants.’”

            After Josiah died in 609 AD, the kingdom then immediately fell under the sway of the Assyrians, and then they had to pay tribute to Egypt, and then Judea destroyed by Babylon in 586 BC. Josiah died before seeing this disaster, just as v28 promised.

            Luke 16:22 is part of a parable. I don't believe parables are meant to be taken literally. Rather, parables are used to make points (in this case, that Jesus is the clear fulfillment of what Moses and the Prophets said). I'm certain you don't take most of the parables literally, so it's inconsistent to take this one literally. V22 uses the word Hades, and this is the only place in the entire Bible were that word is associated with torment. It's also the only place in the Bible where Hades is used in a parable. Everyone who dies goes to hades, or Sheol (in the OT). From here, we're resurrected and judged. Those whose names are found in the Book of Life are given eternal life. The others are destroyed, the second death. Jesus went to hades, because that's where dead people go, but his flesh did not rot and he was not left there.

            The only dead guy who we are told went someone other than hades is the guy in the above parable, where the man went to "Abraham's bosom". But, this place is never mentioned outside of that parable, for this and other reasons, I don't take Abraham's bosom as a literal place (besides, if you really want to be literal, consider what Abraham's bosom would literally be).


            Comment>

            • #7
              I understand the controversy of whether Luke 16:22 is a parable; I believe it is literal. In parables, the Bible says they are parables, but here, it does not say that. The parables are principles, not literal happenings, however. Abraham's bosom is paradise. We disagree because you believe this is a parable and I do not. Besides, the Psalms describe to a tee as to the journey to hell, and that is literal too. One must be careful as to what is literal and what is figurative, or we might find ourselves not believing the Bible. Even parables teach principles which must be believed in the literal sense, though the parable may be a story. Parables are a mystery to the unbeliever, but are made clear to the believer. What about some of the other scriptures I quoted regarding hell? Any other questions/comments? I'll try to help if I can, or perhaps you see other verses you believe are not properly applied. This is good dialogue, regardless of how we agree or disagree.:)
              Comment>

              • #8
                1 Thessalonians 4:13 describes the dead as asleep. Elsewhere, the dead are described in various ways, such as knowing nothing, which conflict with a literal interpretation of the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. And, if the rich man and Lazarus had already gone to their punishment and reward, respectively, then the dead have already been judged.

                Half the time Luke relates a parable, he doesn't identify it as a parable. Jesus tells the parable of the Great Banquet, Luke 14:12-24. Do you think this story is literal, that a man invited his friends and relatives to a great banquet but they all had excuses not to come, so the man sent his servant to the highways and countryside to find people to bring to the banquet. Do you not agree that the "friends and the relatives" represent the Jews. And, the strangers represent the gentiles?



                Comment>

                • #9
                  The term "asleep" must have context to know whether it is literal or not. In the case of 1 Thessalonians 4:13, it means physically dead. The soul and spirit of those are with the Lord (i.e., absent from the body, present with the Lord) because Paul is addressing believers who lost loved ones. We have to watch our context.

                  Regarding the great banquet, it is a prophecy of the wedding supper of the Lamb, and those with excuses were Israel and those who were strangers were Gentiles, yes.
                  Comment>

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cornelius View Post
                    1 Thessalonians 4:13 describes the dead as asleep. Elsewhere, the dead are described in various ways, such as knowing nothing, which conflict with a literal interpretation of the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. And, if the rich man and Lazarus had already gone to their punishment and reward, respectively, then the dead have already been judged.

                    Half the time Luke relates a parable, he doesn't identify it as a parable. Jesus tells the parable of the Great Banquet, Luke 14:12-24. Do you think this story is literal, that a man invited his friends and relatives to a great banquet but they all had excuses not to come, so the man sent his servant to the highways and countryside to find people to bring to the banquet. Do you not agree that the "friends and the relatives" represent the Jews. And, the strangers represent the gentiles?



                    Cornelius, our bodies "sleep" - not our souls.

                    Remember Jesus said: [SIZE=14px]Mark 12:26-27 [/SIZE]
                    [FONT=Arial][SIZE=11px]26[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet][SIZE=14px]"But regarding the fact that the dead rise again, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the burning bush, how God spoke to him, saying, 'I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, and the God of Jacob '?[/SIZE][/FONT]He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.


                    This is repeated in 3 gospels.
                    Comment>

                    • #11
                      I think Jesus was trying to prove resurrection, not anything about the state of our souls before the resurrection.

                      Comment>

                      • #12
                        What do you make of Elija and Moses appearing to Jesus in the Transfiguration?
                        Comment>

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by thereselittleflower View Post
                          What do you make of Elija and Moses appearing to Jesus in the Transfiguration?
                          You may have a point. If Elijah died after being taken up, I suppose Elijah and Moses were resurrected.
                          Comment>

                          • #14
                            Or, they are alive to God because all who have died are alive to God, and they are part of the great cloud of witnesses Paul tells us about, using the analogy of spectators in the coliseum watching a race, cheering on the runners; and it is only our bodies which have died and "sleep." "Sleep" is a euphemism for death.

                            Comment>

                            • #15
                              Since the body of a dead man remains interred in the ground and can be dug up if the spirit of a dead man goes to hell then that hell can't be here on earth as we know it because after death they [the spirits of the dead] cross over into another realm — the spirit realm. Hell is in the spirit realm. It's real. But the bible clearly explains that it's after the last judgment when everyone whose name isn't found in the book of life will be cast into hell.
                              Comment>
                              Working...
                              X
                              Articles - News - SiteMap