Spiritual warfare is the Christian concept that the Devil and demons attempt to thwart Good and the will of God.

Salvation for the Dead (A Practical Guide)

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Origen View Post
    I don't have a problem with the fullness of God's love but I do have a problem with someone trying to pass off so-called personal revelations as biblical doctrine. Moreover when that so-called personal revelation contradicts biblical theology, that is more than enough reason to reject and promptly dismiss that personal revelation.
    It does not contradict biblical theology. The old testament clearly taught us blood sacrifices for the forgiveness of sins. In the new testament, this was no longer necessary. But Jesus had taught us the value of good works by rewarding us for them. The Catholic Church today offers up good works in lieu of punishment for those who die of a mortal sin. No one can say that good works cannot be offered up for the sins of those who died without faith.

    The Corinthians would have themselves baptized for the dead. And the Mormons follow this practice even today. One must consider the whole of the bible to understand the offering up of good works to those who died without faith. One must stretch their sight into the heart of a magnificent Savior and see the fullness of His love for mankind.
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    • #17
      Originally posted by Redleg View Post

      I'm not a cessationist. If you are comfortable with sharing, I would like to know how you received your divine revelation (dream, vision, direct angelic interaction, other). Thanks.
      Here is my story.

      When I was a 9 year old boy and loving the Lord, I saw Jesus in all white, dressed as a shepherd on the wing of an airplane while it was still boarding. I erroneously thought someone was playing a trick on me to make me become highly religious. Then I became agnostic and got lost for 35 years. I began hearing, seeing, wrestling with the unseen and witnessing powers of the invisible spirit world. Evil spirits had come into my life as a consequence of my sin.

      I nearly died at the hands of these spirits - both human and demon alike. I've noticed the humans lose their family and friends. They are scattered throughout the netherworld. They have anger and hatred in their hearts. They are masters at the art of deception. Their evil shall not stop without divine intervention and restoration of the soul. They thirst for all that only a most loving Creator can give them. I've discovered that it is the human condition that we are evil and wicked without God in the afterlife. The soul is in ruins and in need of salvation.

      Father God reached out to me and I heard Him say, "the battle against good and evil has been here since the beginning of time." God battles evil by salvaging souls through His Son, Jesus Christ. The Father's voice sounds of greatness not of this world. The room was filled with an ancient scent from a world long ago. God had done this to let me know that He was there in the beginning of man's time.

      I suffered at the hands of these evil spirits for 7 years until I learned that they were real and hence Jesus as well. This is how Jesus had found me to begin my undeserving vocation to be an adopted child of God. He left the flock to find that one lost sheep when I saw Him on the wing of that airplane 35 years earlier.

      I prayed to Jesus that He would not leave me here to be evil like these spirits. He put my deceased mother behind me. And the most loving scent of her holding me in her bosom as a small child came over me. Jesus had done this to let me know it was her. He was letting me know that I would be with my mom and that He would deliver me from this evil condition known as hell.

      I asked Jesus who these spirits were persecuting me. He told me through the Spirit of truth that they were the dead. I could see that they were lost and inquired about them going to heaven. Jesus had sent down the Holy Spirit stopping in front of me and pointing at me. He was telling me that I would make atonement for them. And that He would forgive them of their sins and deliver them into heaven. Jesus is mighty to save.

      Later, I had a dream were Jesus had removed the anger and hatred from these poor souls hearts. He was informing me that the work for atonement had been done. Then, with His powers going through me, He changed them back because the work could not be accepted until the door to my hearing and seeing them was closed. I am currently working on this.

      Also, an angel made himself known to me. I've had many dreams and visions, some arranged by God and by the powers of the higher angels, guiding me away from sin, in truth, toward salvation. I thank God for my sufferings and wisdom gained. I am looking forward to being with God in heaven, seeing these spirits restored, and seeing my mom again.
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      • #18
        Originally posted by Child of God View Post
        It does not contradict biblical theology.
        You have simply twisted certain passages without regard to context.

        Originally posted by Child of God View Post
        The Catholic Church today offers up good works in lieu of punishment for those who die of a mortal sin.
        Which proves nothing.

        Originally posted by Child of God View Post
        No one can say that good works cannot be offered up for the sins of those who died without faith.
        You had best read your N.T. Clearly you do not know it.

        Originally posted by Child of God View Post
        The Corinthians would have themselves baptized for the dead.
        The text does not make that claim. You are forcing those ideas upon the text. Paul makes a reference to such a thing in passing but he does not say the Corinthians where doing it nor does he claim that it ought to be done. It is very easy to make a text say something it never said when you read into to it rather than allowing it to speak for itself.

        Originally posted by Child of God View Post
        And the Mormons follow this practice even today. One must consider the whole of the bible to understand the offering up of good works to those who died without faith.
        There is zero evidence what the Mormons do is in any way related to what Paul was addressing. Sure they claim it is but there no description of the act in the text and thus the Mormons have simply made it up without context.
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        • #19
          Originally posted by Child of God View Post
          I asked Jesus who these spirits were persecuting me. He told me through the Spirit of truth that they were the dead. I could see that they were lost and inquired about them going to heaven. Jesus had sent down the Holy Spirit stopping in front of me and pointing at me. He was telling me that I would make atonement for them.
          Oh, you will make atonement for them. Messiah complex anyone???
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          • #20
            Originally posted by Origen View Post
            Oh, you will make atonement for them. Messiah complex anyone???
            Well, he does want to tell "his" story.

            God bless,
            William
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            • #21
              Originally posted by Origen View Post
              Oh, you will make atonement for them. Messiah complex anyone???
              Hardly a Messiah complex. Only Christ can salvage (restore) a soul. You fail to understand scripture and the heart of God.
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              • #22
                Originally posted by Child of God View Post
                Hardly a Messiah complex. Only Christ can salvage (restore) a soul. You fail to understand scripture.
                I wasn't addressing Scripture but your imagined story. Or are you claiming your story is Scripture? Again I say, Messiah complex anyone???
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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Child of God View Post
                  Hardly a Messiah complex. Only Christ can salvage (restore) a soul. You fail to understand scripture.
                  And, according to your theology works of the living.

                  As to failing to understand Scripture, I think you do not have the faintest clue as to what two words you used loosely mean: biblical + theology.

                  You appeal to the Catholics and Mormons?

                  What made you even think about joining a Protestant community?

                  Do you really think we are lacking because we know not your "story".

                  William
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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by William View Post

                    And, according to your theology works of the living.

                    As to failing to understand Scripture, I think you do not have the faintest clue as to what two words you used loosely mean: biblical + theology.

                    You appeal to the Catholics and Mormons?

                    What made you even think about joining a Protestant community?

                    Do you really think we are lacking because we know not your "story".

                    William
                    I know that this topic is unorthodox. It has nothing to do with "my story." But everything to do with the fullness of Christ's work of salvation. I merely want to share something of God that I believe in. No harm, nor fowl intended.
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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Child of God View Post
                      I know that this topic is unorthodox. It has nothing to do with "my story." But everything to do with the fullness of Christ's salvation. I merely want to share something of God that I believe in. No harm, nor fowl intended.
                      Not really. Simply because you believe it does not make it true. Moreover when it contradicts Scripture, it becomes a problem for the group. Hardly a week goes by here were someone does not show up wanting to expand upon the Word of God with their personal revelation.
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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Origen View Post
                        Not really. Simply because you believe it does not make it true. Moreover when it contradicts Scripture, it becomes a problem for the group. Hardly a week goes by here were someone does not show up wanting to expand upon the Word of God with their personal revelation.
                        If you knew God and scripture in full you would not fail to see the truth of what I have written. The error is not with me. God be my witness.
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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Child of God View Post
                          If you knew God and scripture in full you would not fail to see the truth of what I have written. The error is not with me. God be my witness.
                          Yes, yes, I know, I know. You are holy. You know the truth. You are wise. You are so much better than I. Good luck with that.

                          I have heard all of that before from every want-a-be prophet and messiah who have posted here. The problem with them and you is that we don't believe you nor is there any reason to believe you. I follow the Scriptures which are authenticated by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit promised to all believes. That is what I have and all I need to know that your message if not of God but from your own ego.
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                          • #28
                            I thought I might takes some time and address a few of the passages cited by CoG. The most interesting to me is 2 Maccabees 12:38-45.

                            38 Then Judas assembled his army and went to the city of Adullam. As the seventh day was coming on, they purified themselves according to the custom, and kept the sabbath there.
                            39 On the next day, as had now become necessary, Judas and his men went to take up the bodies of the fallen and to bring them back to lie with their kindred in the sepulchers of their ancestors. 40 Then under the tunic of each one of the dead they found sacred tokens of the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. And it became clear to all that this was the reason these men had fallen. 41 So they all blessed the ways of the Lord, the righteous judge, who reveals the things that are hidden; 42 and they turned to supplication, praying that the sin that had been committed might be wholly blotted out. The noble Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened as the result of the sin of those who had fallen. 43 He also took up a collection, man by man, to the amount of two thousand drachmas of silver, and sent it to Jerusalem to provide for a sin offering. In doing this he acted very well and honorably, taking account of the resurrection. 44 For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. 45 But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, so that they might be delivered from their sin.
                            (1) The question is why should anyone accept 2 Maccabees as canonical. The Apocrypha was never part of the Jewish canon and the vast majority of Christians did not believe it to be canonical. Not until the Council of Trent (1545–1563) were the book of the Apocrypha finally considered canonical by the Catholic Church.

                            (2) Even if this was a historical event that in way proves that anyone ought to accept and\or condone the practices found within the story. Simply citing this story does automatically give this story any kind of authority.

                            (3) Note these men who were killed were guilty of idolatry and that was the reason they were defeated. While the Catholic Church does believe in purgatory, idolatry is mortal sin and there is no hope of purgatory so this passage is of no help to CoG.

                            (4) While Judas does offer payers and sacrifices there is no hint these idolatries were in any kind of purgatory or that this behavior was condoned or encourage by the O.T. There is no context explaining where it comes from or why it is believed.

                            (5) The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops:
                            This is the earliest statement of the doctrine that prayers (v. 42) and sacrifices (v. 43) for the dead are efficacious. Judas probably intended his purification offering to ward off punishment from the living. The author, however, uses the story to demonstrate belief in the resurrection of the just (7:9, 14, 23, 36), and in the possibility of expiation for the sins of otherwise good people who have died. This belief is similar to, but not quite the same as, the Catholic doctrine of purgatory.
                            Note two points in this commentary. First, "Judas probably intended his purification offering to ward off punishment from the living." Second, the belief is not quite the same as doctrine of purgatory. In my opinion that is an under statement.
                            scripture

                            Thus 2 Maccabees is of no help to CoG and does not support his claims.
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