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Can God be

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    Can God be

    The greatest obstacle to theological discovery is not ignorance but the illusion of knowledge; the conviction that you already have it.

    My reason is my ultimate authority because it seems reasonable to me to make it so

    R.C. Sproul: "it must be good that evil exists, because God sovereignly, providentially ordains only what is good. In terms of His eternal purpose, God has esteemed it good that evil should be allowed to happen in this world."

    Can God be "pleased" or satisfied/glorified with anything which does not have its origin in Himself?
    Last edited by David Lee; 12-12-2017, 04:04 PM. Reason: The above post was moved here from Your Favorite Quotes so the points and questions could be discussed, something our Quotes thread was not made/intended to be for.

    #2
    Hi Fastfredy0, I have a couple of questions for you about the above. To begin with, your opening sentence, is that your quote, or did someone else write it (and if so, who)?

    Thanks!

    --David









    Matthew 5
    16 Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

    Matthew 7
    12 However you want people to treat you, so treat them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

    1 Corinthians 13
    1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

    1 Peter 3
    15 Sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence.
    Comment>

      #3
      Maybe it is along the lines of factions are a work of the flesh yet there must be factions so that the truth can be made more clear.
      Comment>

        #4
        Originally posted by William
        Yet everything God made was "good" until the fall
        Are you implying that what God created after the fall is not good .... or .... that the fall was not part of creation (outside of the sovereignty of God, from a source other than God)
        Comment>

          #5
          Originally posted by William
          These two quote seemingly contradict
          Possibly connecting the two with a "for" sheds light .... though the connection is of my manufacturing.

          The greatest obstacle to theological discovery is not ignorance but the illusion of knowledge; the conviction that you already have it
          For

          My reason is my ultimate authority because it seems reasonable to me to make it so
          Comment>

            #6
            Originally posted by David Lee View Post
            Hi Fastfredy0, I have a couple of questions for you about the above. To begin with, your opening sentence, is that your quote, or did someone else write it (and if so, who)?
            Oh, I write things down that intrigue me when I come across them. I am not nearly so cleaver as to be original and pensive.


            I did a google search... Wayne A. Grudem wrote "My reason is my ultimate authority because it seems reasonable to me to make it so" in Systematic Theology


            "The greatest obstacle to theological discovery is not ignorance but the illusion of knowledge; the conviction that you already have it" appears to be written by either Stephen Hawking or the Librarian of the U.S. Congress Daniel J. Boorstin
            Comment>

              #7
              Aside: I did not start this topic. Someone moved a post from another subject and created a topic. So the title "Can God Be" is not my creative.
              Comment>

                #8
                Originally posted by Fastfredy0 View Post
                Are you implying that what God created after the fall is not good .... or .... that the fall was not part of creation (outside of the sovereignty of God, from a source other than God)
                God finished his work of creation before the fall so everything was originally good. He knew the fall would occur and he allowed it. It didn't take him by surprise. He decided even before the fall that Jesus Christ would die to atone for our sins and bring about a restoration.
                Clyde Herrin's Blog
                Comment>

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Fastfredy0 View Post
                  I did a google search... Wayne A. Grudem wrote "My reason is my ultimate authority because it seems reasonable to me to make it so" in Systematic Theology
                  Hi FastFredy0, just to be clear, "My reason is my ultimate authority because it seems reasonable to me to make it so" is used as an example of "circular reasoning" by Dr. Grudem (in 3 of his books actually) when he discusses circular reasoning and why it's not true of the Bible. It is NOT a quote that is personally his, nor is it something that he believes is true (Dr. Grudem would hardly state/believe that his own reason is his ultimate authority).

                  Thanks for getting back to me about the origin of the top two quotes. I'm glad to know that neither of them are ones you wrote!

                  --David
                  p.s. - I would be happy to post an excerpt from Grudem's Systematic Theology if anyone would like to read the above quote in the context that it's written in. Just let me know.

                  Proverbs 14
                  12 There is a way which seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death.
                  Matthew 5
                  16 Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

                  Matthew 7
                  12 However you want people to treat you, so treat them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

                  1 Corinthians 13
                  1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

                  1 Peter 3
                  15 Sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence.
                  Comment>

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Fastfredy0 View Post
                    "The greatest obstacle to theological discovery is not ignorance but the illusion of knowledge; the conviction that you already have it" appears to be written by either Stephen Hawking or the Librarian of the U.S. Congress Daniel J. Boorstin
                    As for the quote by Professor Hawking, that he is a brilliant man is undoubted, but he is also an avowed atheist, which puts him at a great disadvantage where "spiritual" knowledge and truth are concerned (because as a non-Christian/"natural man" he has no ability to understand things the things of God, because the things of God must be spiritually appraised).

                    1 Corinthians 2
                    14 A natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

                    First and foremost, "the greatest obstacle to theological discovery" is the closemindedness and ignorance that exists among all who are not born again .. e.g. 1 Corinthians 2:12-16; cf 1 Corinthians 1:18.

                    --David
                    Matthew 5
                    16 Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

                    Matthew 7
                    12 However you want people to treat you, so treat them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

                    1 Corinthians 13
                    1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

                    1 Peter 3
                    15 Sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence.
                    Comment>

                      #11
                      Originally posted by David Lee View Post
                      "My reason is my ultimate authority because it seems reasonable to me to make it so"
                      For me the quote reminds me of my fallibility; of my bias' and short comings in regards to understanding things.

                      Yes, I am aware of 1 cor. 2:14 ... God gives each of us different gifts ... our understanding of the infinite by a finite mind is going to lead to some short comings.
                      Comment>

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Fastfredy0 View Post
                        Aside: I did not start this topic. Someone moved a post from another subject and created a topic. So the title "Can God Be" is not my creative.
                        Finally, would you like the title of this thread to say something else than "Can God be"? If so, what would you prefer??

                        Although I didn't create the title, to be honest, I find it a provocative one that should draw interest to this thread, but I'll happily change it for you if you'd like me to.

                        --David
                        Matthew 5
                        16 Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

                        Matthew 7
                        12 However you want people to treat you, so treat them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

                        1 Corinthians 13
                        1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

                        1 Peter 3
                        15 Sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence.
                        Comment>

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Fastfredy0 View Post
                          For me the quote reminds me of my fallibility; of my bias' and short comings in regards to understanding things.
                          I see. It may be helpful to let us know things like that in the future when you're posting, so that those who read a quote like that one from you don't think it's something that you believe to be a valuable "truth" per say/in and of itself!

                          Originally posted by Fastfredy0 View Post
                          Yes, I am aware of 1 cor. 2:14 ... God gives each of us different gifts ... our understanding of the infinite by a finite mind is going to lead to some short comings.
                          This is also true, though non-Christians (such as Professor Hawking) aren't left with "some short comings" due to their finite/fallen minds, rather, non-believers are not indwelt, taught or guided by the Holy Spirit, nor have they been given the "mind of Christ" (as ALL true believers have) .. e.g. 1 Corinthians 2:12-16, so they (non-Christians) are left completely in the dark where understanding the things of God are concerned (they, in fact, reject the truth of God as nothing more than "foolishness" .. 1 Corinthians 2:14).

                          Thanks!!

                          --David

                          1 Corinthians 1
                          18 The word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.


                          Matthew 5
                          16 Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

                          Matthew 7
                          12 However you want people to treat you, so treat them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

                          1 Corinthians 13
                          1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

                          1 Peter 3
                          15 Sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence.
                          Comment>
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