There is something healthy about returning to one’s roots. When it comes to evangelical Christianity, its roots are found in the soil of the sixteenth-century Protestant Reformation.

Can a person lose their salvation as Hebrews 6:4-6 seems to teach?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Can a person lose their salvation as Hebrews 6:4-6 seems to teach?

    by Alex Carmichael
    Alex is a Reformed Baptist minister in Scotland. Prior to that, he was a high school English and Critical Thinking teacher. He has an M.Div. from Knox Theological Seminary.


    There are many people who have taught (and others still teach today) that this passage clearly shows that a Christian can lose his or her salvation. And in a cursory reading, it does seem that this interpretation is correct.

    But, as it is with many Scriptures, we should be aware of the “heresy of the first glance.”

    So let’s take a close look at this passage and see what it is really teaching.

    Hebrews 6:4-6 (NKJV):

    4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,

    5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

    6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

    This passage begs the question, “How can one be ‘enlightened’ and fall away?” It does seem to be speaking of someone losing his salvation.


    Or does it?


    The key to answering this is discovering who is the “they,” and from what have they “fallen away”?

    To begin with, it is important to know that this section of Hebrews is about apostates/heretics-- those who may have, to some degree, embraced the truth, but have now abandoned it. It’s also important to know how the believers who originally read this message of “those who were once enlightened” would understand it. Today, we might think it means that they were enlightened about the truth, or that they were regenerated. But what was the intent of the original author, and how would his readers have understood it?


    Enlightened” doesn’t always mean “regenerated” or “saved” in the Scriptures.



    In this verse, it is speaking of people who were involved, perhaps heavily involved, in a church. It is likely they would have joined a congregation, heard the Gospel, and saw the Spirit working in the life of Believers. They may have received some of the blessings of being part of a covenant community, and they may have even publicly confessed Christ and have been baptized (in early Christian writings, conversion and baptism were sometimes termed “enlightenment”). But they never had a saving knowledge of Christ.

    Another key word in understanding who is being described here is the word “tasted.” They only “tasted” or “sampled” Christ. They were never truly converted to faith in Him.

    A good analogy would be the difference between marrying someone and just going out on a few dates with them. A person can learn things about Christ and thereby come to admire Him, and they may enjoy being part of a fellowship, but have no real lasting commitment to Him. This is not the same thing as the repentance and faith by which a person is savingly joined to Christ.

    This is seen in the not uncommon situation people who have been in a church for many years, been involved in many things, never missed a service, yet are not saved. They’ve been “enlightened” by seeing God at work, but only just “tasted” what was going on, never really being a part of it. They most likely would have even partaken of the Lord’s Supper, as the wording in the passage suggests. But they were never really saved. To sort of paraphrase Scripture, they were “in the church, but not of the Church.”

    So to be a member of a church, and be “enlightened” by the life of the Church and seeing God at work, doesn’t guarantee salvation. Neither does being baptized, for that matter. “Enlightened” does not necessarily mean “saved.”

    Ephesians 1:15-21(NKJV) uses “enlightenment” differently, but still does not mean “saved”:

    15 Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints,

    16 do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers:

    17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him,

    18 the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,

    19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power

    20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,

    21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.

    The passage is referring to a Christian (the person is already identified as such in v15), but it is a prayer that God would grant them wisdom (v16-17), and once they are given that wisdom they would then be in a state of “being enlightened” (v18) in regard to their calling. So, again, the term “enlightened” is not necessarily synonymous with being saved.

    In both of these cases, the Greek word for “enlightenment,” photizo, refers to doctrinal knowledge. While we need doctrine for salvation (we can’t have faith in just anything, can we?), we aren’t saved by a doctrinal understanding.

    And in regard to the word “partake,” metakhos, Hebrews 3:14 (NKJV) sheds further light on the matter: “For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.” It’s not by a believer’s holding fast that they make themselves a partaker, but if they have truly partaken of Christ they will indeed hold fast. One has to be a believer in order to hold fast, to not fall away.

    Now the question is, “If the ‘they’ is someone who has ‘tasted’ of the Church, has seen what has been going on and seen God at work, has been ‘in the church, but not of the Church,’ what exactly have they ‘fallen away’ from that they can’t be 'renew[ed] again to repentance’? And doesn’t that imply that they were originally brought to repentance?

    John Calvin addresses this problem of “falling away” in his Institutes of the Christian Religion. He writes that, “experience shows that the reprobate are sometimes affected in a way so similar to the Elect.” In fact, they can “truly feel the efficacy of the Gospel,” and there is no reason why the Lord could not allow the reprobate “some taste of His grace,” or “irradiate their minds with some sparks of His light.” However, this is only what is called a “temporary faith.” Calvin writes further, “Not that they truly perceive the power of spiritual grace and the sure light of faith; but the Lord--the better to convict them, and leave them without excuse--instills into their minds such a sense of His goodness as can be felt without the Spirit of adoption.” Calvin states that the unsaved person in this situation lays hold to the “shadow” instead of the “substance.”

    Louis Berkhof in his Systematic Theology also covers “temporary faith” as being distinguished from “true saving faith.” Berkhof writes that temporary faith is most likely “grounded in the emotional life and seeks personal enjoyment rather than the glory of God.” That’s why it is not difficult to understand why this kind of false faith is quickly lost when God or the church ceases to be fun, when it loses its appeal.

    Unlike saving faith, temporary faith, Berkhof writes, “is not rooted in a regenerate heart.” He locates temporary faith in God’s Word in Matthew 13:18-23 (NKJV):


    The Parable of the Sower Explained


    Matthew 13:18-23 (NKJV)

    18 “Therefore hear the parable of the sower:

    19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside.

    20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;

    21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

    22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.

    23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”

    They were given just enough repentance in that they became members of the Visible Church, which is comprised of both wheat and chaff. Not everyone who sits next to you in a pew has been brought to repentance and faith.

    That’s what they have “fallen away” from -- the Visible Church, not salvation. Salvation is final, as repentance is a gift of the Lord. Once you have been adopted into God’s family, you are not let go. In John 10:27-28 (NKJV), Jesus states: “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.” Once we are saved, we have an eternal security that is final.

    There is also a kind of falling away that is final too. We have to keep in mind that this is not just a simple falling away, where they just don’t go to church anymore, but one in which a person fully renounces Christ. Once they fall away, and put the things of Christ completely behind them, they simply won’t ever be gifted with any degree of repentance again. Anyone who makes such a decision was never a member of the Invisible Church.

    This does not mean that those who stray for a season cannot be restored. Those who have not completely fallen away, who have not held the Son of God up to contempt, can indeed be restored to repentance. A sinner who has genuine sorrow over sin shows that the Holy Spirit is working in his heart and is not forever lost. But those who have indeed fallen away completely are impossible to restore, and God will not permit those who have committed such apostasy to come to repentance.

    As for “crucify again the Son of God” and putting Him to an open shame, this is similar to the warning given in Hebrews 10:26-29 (NKJV):

    26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

    27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

    28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

    29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

    If someone leaves the Church because they don’t feel that Jesus is the Christ or that He is the only Way, it is as if they “trample the Son of God underfoot,” and count Christ’s sacrifice a “common thing.” What those who fall away have done, after having received the knowledge of the truth (being “enlightened”) and have gone beyond the point of repentance by rejecting God’s Son, is they have joined the ranks of those who rejected Him and sentenced Him to death; in effect, “they crucify again for themselves the Son of God.” They would, if they were there, have joined the crowd who chanted, “Give us Barabbas!” “Give me something else!” is what the person is saying in abandoning Christ.

    Even the leaders in Jesus’ day knew He was from God, but declared Him otherwise when they strived to put Him on the Cross. Those who fall away after experiencing the truth of Christ join the religious leaders of Christ’s day, in their crucifying again for themselves the Son of God.

    Yet, as Hebrews 10:29 says, the punishment will be much worse for those who abandon their confession.

    In rejecting Christ and thinking that there must be another way other than this narrow path, such as thinking that there are many roads to Heaven, or that God gives people another chance after death, or that everyone will eventually be saved, this puts Christ “to an open shame,” because it makes Him out to be a liar, and it makes a mockery of Him dying once for all time for the full payment of sin. If Christ being the only Way is insufficient, if it isn’t right in a person’s eyes, this “shames” the Lord by saying, in effect, that God didn’t get it right if this is the way it is, that there must be another way. The person is saying that God has to try doing it a different way in order to get it right. It is a denial of Christ’s atonement being sufficient, that there must be more or different or better ways than this.

    Yet Christ will not be crucified again--there is no need, no matter what the apostate may say. Christ died once for all time, for those who would believe in Him. He is the only Way into Heaven, and outside of Him there is no hope, as there is nothing or no one else where one can find forgiveness of sin. If one chooses to abandon Christ after tasting of His goodness, they will not find salvation anywhere else, no matter where or how hard they look.

    But for those who are truly His, there is nothing to fear. And that is because, as always, the focus isn’t on us, but on God. The final point of TULIP, “Perseverance of the Saints,” would perhaps best be viewed as “Preservation of the Saints,” as it is God who holds us and preserves us to the end, not ourselves (John 10:27-28: My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand). Christ is not only the author, but also the finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God).

    We cannot lose our salvation. From beginning to end, it is all undergirded by God.

    Source: Can a person lose their salvation as Hebrews 6:4-6 seems to teach? | Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry

    #2
    Originally posted by William View Post
    We cannot lose our salvation. From beginning to end, it is all undergirded by God.
    We agree on many, if not most, doctrines William but where we disagree, we really disagree, no wishy-washy with us eh?
    Comment>

      #3
      William, How does a person know, if they have root or not, or if they were thrown in with the thorns, when do we know that we are a child of God
      Comment>

        #4
        Originally posted by Guppy View Post
        William, How does a person know, if they have root or not, or if they were thrown in with the thorns, when do we know that we are a child of God
        Why do you care?

        I am not being flippant, that is the answer. A tare can never be wheat, it is an impossibility. The young tare may be externally indistinguishable from a young wheat, but as it grows, its true nature will be revealed (as will that of the wheat). However, at no point does a tare ever desire to be wheat. It is content to be a tare.

        So back to my question, "why do you care?" No person who desires to please God and to be with God will ever be turned away. That is foolish thinking. Look at the price Christ paid for the redemption of His sheep, His body, those the Father fore-loved. Would he turn any away?

        So the fact that you want to please God and want to be with him, even if he asks you to do something unpleasant, is your first assurance that you have a new heart and not a fallen heart that just enjoys playing at church while it is fun. Then time, the fact that you persevere rather than fall away provides evidence of the reality of the change within you. The third, and irrefutable witness of the genuineness of your adoption is the Holy Spirit dwelling within you, and I am not referring to some speaking in tongues 'proof', but the true proof of a changed heart and life. If you can look back at your Christian life and see no change and growth towards Christlikeness, then be very concerned. If you are not who you once were but are more Christlike than when you started, then there is only one way to obtain that sort of a change. That is the fruit of the spirit, and only one soil in the parable actually produced fruit ... The good soil.

        So a desire to be like Christ indicates a new heart, and fruit of the Spirit in your life indicates the presence of the Holy Spirit, a seal and a deposit guaranteeing your inheritance.
        Comment>

          #5
          Jesus sadi that we are secure in the Fathers keeping. (no man can pluck you out of the FATHERS HAND) The keeping me safe and secure is the Fathers promise. Either the FATHER says what He means or we simply can't trust the Bible. I trust the very WORD of God!

          justme
          Comment>

            #6
            How do I know, that I will finish the race?

            Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. [1 Corinthians 9:26 NIV]
            No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize. [1 Corinthians 9:27 NIV]


            Here Paul is talking about being disqualified, if Paul is concerned about finishing the race, Why not me?

            How do we know,That we will finish the race?


            The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. [Matthew 13:20 NIV]
            But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. [Matthew 13:21 NIV]


            I received his word with Joy, how do I know that when troubles and persecution come. I wont fall away

            The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. [Matthew 13:22 NIV]

            How do we know, that worries or wealth won't effect us

            "But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut. [Matthew 25:10 NIV]
            "Later the others also came. 'Lord, Lord,' they said, 'open the door for us!' [Matthew 25:11 NIV]
            "But he replied, 'Truly I tell you, I don't know you.' [Matthew 25:12 NIV]


            How do I know I won't be like the 5 foolish virgins and not be ready?
            This is the same warning in Matthew 7

            Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' [Matthew 7:22 NIV]

            Notice they, prophesied, they cast out demons, they did miracles in his name and yet he said he never knew them

            The reason was they did not bear good fruit, so we can not let the troubles of this world draw us off of our path. We need to stay focused and to finish our race.

            The prize is given at the end of the race. We must finish the race, to receive the prize.
            Comment>

              #7


              [How do I know, that I will finish the race?]

              Paul is talking about losing his own physical endurance to complete his ministry, which was very taxing, physically. He is NOT talking about losing his Spiritual inheritance, eternal life. He yearns to see Jews and Gentiles becoming Christians in vast numbers.


              [I received his word with Joy, how do I know that when troubles and persecution come. I wont fall away.]

              That is a reference to someone who hears about Christianity but does nothing about it. You've done something about it.


              [How do we know, that worries or wealth won't effect us]

              They will affect us in this life. They can increase our doubts and fears and hamper our physical health, but they cannot remove from us our eternal security.


              [How do I know I won't be like the 5 foolish virgins and not be ready?]

              You are saved, born again, Spiritually birthed. Romans 10:8-13. You can never lose that standing. Romans 8:1. HE will never know those who have not confessed Him as Savior, those who have not entered into His family, the Body of Christ.


              [The prize is given at the end of the race. We must finish the race, to receive the prize.]

              The "prize" is your eternal life. The "end of the race" was when you confessed Him as Savior.

              Bible study includes understanding the context of scripture, the audience, the when and where it applies to, and its ultimate purpose. Without those, we jump to conclusions, we rationalize, we "figure stuff out" on our own. The Holy Spirit is the Supreme Interpreter and Applier of Scripture. We look to Him in prayer, in each time we open our Bible, and especially when we are perplexed by multiple responses in various Christian forums.

              Be blessed! Praise Him!
              Last edited by Winken; 08-21-2017, 07:43 PM. Reason: My typos.....
              Comment>

                #8
                Originally posted by Guppy View Post
                I received his word with Joy, how do I know that when troubles and persecution come. I wont fall away
                I can offer scriptural arguments, that others will counter with scriptures that they interpret to say the opposite.
                I can offer logical arguments based on theological precepts that will lead to endless debate.
                (I was glad to see Winken had offered a response.)

                What I have to offer is mere anecdotal evidence, but it is 100% mine and for me it is irrefutable proof of God's answer to your questions:
                Sparing the details, which are personal and irrelevant to the point, after 10 years of struggling to please God and being beaten down by the Enemy, I was ready to quit. I reached a point where I believed that I must have committed some unpardonable sin, because I surely felt abandoned by God. I felt that I at least owed God a formal notification that I was leaving our agreement and returning to my old life (gangs and drug trafficking). I walked to the nearest church, it was unlocked but empty, and I told God that I was finished apologizing for whatever it was that I had done and I was leaving our contract. If God could not forgive me, then ... the words 'F*** Y**' formed in my mind, I drew in the breath and started to form the first letter with my lips ... I never said the words. God can speak with an audible voice. The single syllable "NO!". I was both forbidden and unable to say those words. Once I recovered from the shock of the moment, I instead said that I was through asking for forgiveness for some unknown sin and searching for Him. "If you want me, you know where to find me."

                Within 48 hours, he did 'find me'. I returned to that church on Sunday, skeptical, but willing to hear anyone and do anything that God asked of me. A missionary FROM Africa to the United States invited me to Bible Study he ran. So true to my pledge, I accepted.

                Thus MY answer to your questions is that whatever arguments anyone may present, I could not lose my salvation. God would not allow it. So I must read all scripture through the empirical filter of my own experience.
                I have presented what I know. Take it or leave it. I tried and failed to walk away.
                Comment>

                  #9
                  Guppy, I can only give you my experience. I hope it helps you. I am a "Feelings person. My wife says my feelings run my direction and frankly its gotten me into trouble listening to my feelings. I am ADD and that does not help me either. All these issues combined and then just how do you think I thought God should reach out and teach and love me. I assure I expected to "feel" God. I wanted to "feel" God in my life. I really struggled in my walk with Jesus Christ for many years, From the age of 11 to 36 I knew I was saved genuinely, but I struggled with doubts and it was miserable.

                  !n 1982 I went on a Southern Baptist Missions trip to Lake Titi Caca, Bolivia. Why did I go to South America? To a place so high in elevation I could hardly breathe. I went on this mission trip because my pastor who had gone to Columbia on a Mission trip, said people in South America were begging to know Jesus Christ. Flat out I did not believe him!. I went because I had to see this for myself and I expected to tell him is was not true. I expected to be rejected when I preached with the missionary I was assigned with. He shared his life story with me, which closely resembled my life too. He had "JOY" in his life, and loved people. He also played Keith Green tapes all the time, a singer I had never heard of until then.

                  When I shared my testimony and the missionary translated it into the peoples language people came "begging" to know Jesus Christ!! I was in shock, blown away! This rocked my life and world. Quickly I found what I was missing, joy in Jesus, Love for others, and Kieth Greens music challenged me even more to grow as a christian. This experience was so awesome. However the native food almost killed me. I can home only to be rushed to the hospital I was deadly sick. You would think that experience would be enough for a lifetime, right? Nope, not enough for me, I went back again in 1986 to the same place. The people were hungry for the Gospel. this time i was with a missionary from Spain. This too challenged me even more than than before. God was calling me to serve Him, something that I was sure way beyond feelings.

                  Yes I respnned to the Call of Christ. Yes I still have issues with feelings, but the Joy and love I was missing has balanced out those issues. My wife and both went to college, seminary, and i was the pastor of four churches. Guppy that's how I know that I know. I hope this gives you a challenge.


                  justme


                  Comment>

                    #10
                    Originally posted by justme View Post
                    Jesus sadi that we are secure in the Fathers keeping. (no man can pluck you out of the FATHERS HAND) The keeping me safe and secure is the Fathers promise. Either the FATHER says what He means or we simply can't trust the Bible. I trust the very WORD of God!

                    justme
                    I believe this is an often misused scripture . The bible Says Justus never forces Himself upon anyone As long as one stays in the Fathers hand no one can take you from His hand, but his hand is never clinched if you were protected because you are locked in His prison. The issue is free choice. If one is a weak believer He may walk away by his own choice. Foolish in deed.

                    45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51 And shall cutb him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. . Mt 24:45-51
                    Comment>

                      #11
                      Guppy comes to the forum pleading for answers, and what happens? "Points-of-view" lash out against his cry for peace. He is assured that he is saved, with nothing to fear, then told shortly thereafter told that that is wrong. How does a frightened seeker of the Gospel Truth rest assured, and then get tossed to the lions if he somehow slips out of the Master's Hand? Study, to show thyself approved, a POSTER needing not to muddy the waters.
                      Comment>

                        #12
                        Originally posted by mitchel View Post

                        I believe this is an often misused scripture . The bible Says Justus never forces Himself upon anyone As long as one stays in the Fathers hand no one can take you from His hand, but his hand is never clinched if you were protected because you are locked in His prison. The issue is free choice. If one is a weak believer He may walk away by his own choice. Foolish in deed.

                        45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51 And shall cutb him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. . Mt 24:45-51


                        Please explain to me more clearly. Are you suggesting we can walk away from being saved? After your response then i can remark ok?


                        justme
                        Comment>

                          #13
                          Mitchel. To give you my understanding of Hebrews 6 its dealing with those who were enlightened, but did not become followers "Blaspheme" is the word I chose to say they has committed. Denying the call of the Holy spirit and rejecting Jesus Christ which cannot be forgiven once you die. Is this your understanding?


                          justme
                          Comment>

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Guppy View Post
                            William, How does a person know, if they have root or not, or if they were thrown in with the thorns, when do we know that we are a child of God
                            Chap. Bell

                            Can a true Christian lose his/her salvation? Concerning such a question we will find two camps, for and against it. This debated begin in the past and continue into our day and time. But, does Hebrews teach that a believer can lose salvation?

                            This unknown writer on Hebrews 6:4-6, is not stating a Christian can lose salvation, but is putting forth a "hypothetical situation." In other words, if this were possible, which it can not be in this age. Then a Christian would be eternally lost. Now, in verse 6 this writer used the preposition (if) which is based on a condition to be true. The Apostle John said, "They went out from us, but they were not of us; they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that were not all of us." 1 John 2:19.
                            This verse clearly described a true Christian from a pseudo a Christian. These false Christians were members in the house of God, but being a member in Church doesn't mean that you are save.
                            Jesus said, "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost,............" John 17:12
                            Finally, what you are calling Christians are not Christians, but are pseudo Christian.
                            Therefore, I must agree with Bro. William.

                            God Bless,




                            Comment>

                              #15
                              I personally believe that if a person believes that cam lose their security in Christ, than In John 10 when Jesus said no man can pluck you out of the fathers hand, either that is true or there is a terrible wrong translation. It can't be both. I take all the Bible as 100% true and accurate, from cover to cover.


                              justme
                              Comment>
                              Working...
                              X
                              Articles - News - SiteMap