There is something healthy about returning to one’s roots. When it comes to evangelical Christianity, its roots are found in the soil of the sixteenth-century Protestant Reformation.

Replacement Theology

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  • Replacement Theology

    Please forgive me if this is a repost, I thought that I had posted it but have been unable to find the post.


    Hi all, my first post in this group so thought I would start with something non-confrontational. :)

    Do the people in this group believe in “Replacement Theology”? Personally, I do not believe the church has replaced the Jewish people as God’s chosen, am I wrong?


  • #2
    Originally posted by tevans9129 View Post
    Please forgive me if this is a repost, I thought that I had posted it but have been unable to find the post.


    Hi all, my first post in this group so thought I would start with something non-confrontational. :)

    Do the people in this group believe in “Replacement Theology”? Personally, I do not believe the church has replaced the Jewish people as God’s chosen, am I wrong?
    Hello Tevans,

    I think what you're looking for is the Covenant Theology section under Apologetics and Theology: Covenant Theology -Christforums

    You may want to read through this article and begin a discussion:

    Covenant Theology Is Not Replacement Theology -Christforums

    Feel free to post either in this section or the better suited Covenant Theology sub-forum.

    To answer your question, no, you're not wrong, although we believe the Church (Spiritual Israel was comprised of the Saints in the OT which had a forward looking faith at Jesus coming, as NT Saints have a historical looking faith of him already having come. This is despite any eschatological soteriology. These are the Elect which comprised of both Jews and Gentiles) was seen in the OT through types and shadows (typology) and came into full fruition and is now the reality under Christ. The NT church has not “replaced” the Jews. Paul says that God “grafted” the Gentiles into the people of God. Grafting is not replacement, it is addition.

    Lemme know what you think of that article which is more explicit than my brief reply.

    God bless,
    William
    Comment>

    • #3
      Thanks for the response William and I did read the article that you referenced. Much of it I agree with...but not all as some of it I do not believe can be proven with scripture as it is written. A few questions if I may..

      1) Does God ever break His covenants and/or promises?

      2) Can Judaism (temple worship) and Christianity worship coexist on earth, per scripture?

      3) Who was God referring to in the OT when He used the phrase, "my people" and how many times did He use that phrase?

      3a) Can you quote the verse(s) in the NT where God referred to the church as "my people"?

      4) Do you believe there will be a physical, millennial temple?

      Looking forward to your views on these questions and BTW, I do appreciate scripture that supports those views.
      Comment>

      • #4
        Originally posted by tevans9129 View Post
        1) Does God ever break His covenants and/or promises?
        No, Romans 9:6, but Hosea 6:7 comes to mind.

        Originally posted by tevans9129 View Post
        2) Can Judaism (temple worship) and Christianity worship coexist on earth, per scripture?
        John 8:44; Revelation 3:9

        Originally posted by tevans9129 View Post
        3) Who was God referring to in the OT when He used the phrase, "my people" and how many times did He use that phrase?
        OT Saints. John 1:12 No idea, had to look it up and came up with 22x

        Originally posted by tevans9129 View Post
        3a) Can you quote the verse(s) in the NT where God referred to the church as "my people"?
        John 1:14; Acts 20:28; 1 Peter 1:15-16; 1 Peter 2:10; Ephesians 1:1; 1:18

        Originally posted by tevans9129 View Post
        4) Do you believe there will be a physical, millennial temple?
        No, John 2:19-22. I do not think we should return to types and shadows.

        God bless,
        William
        Comment>

        • #5


          1) First, thanks for answering my questions, that does not happen for me very often.

          2) So you agree then this promise to the Jewish people will not be broken by God, is that correct?

          “He said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell among the sons of Israel forever. And the house of Israel will not again defile My holy name, neither they nor their kings, by their harlotry and by the corpses of their kings when they die,” (Ezekiel 43:7, NASB95)

          3) Who is this promise to, the Jewish people or the church?

          4) Reading Ezekiel 40-48, how does any of this pertain to the church? And do you have scripture just as it is written that supports your answer?

          “But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;” (Romans 9:6, NASB95)

          5) What covenant is that, or what promise and to whom?

          “But like Adam they have transgressed the covenant; There they have dealt treacherously against Me.” (Hosea 6:7, NASB95)

          6) Now this is very confusing to me.

          7) How does this verse verify that God does not break His covenants?


          Last edited by William; 07-27-2017, 12:25 PM. Reason: Corrected Format
          Comment>

          • #6
            Originally posted by tevans9129 View Post
            First, thanks for answering my questions, that does not happen for me very often.
            I do not know how much longer I can keep awake. I have been up for over 24 hours working on the website which needed an update last night. I got carried away and began reworking the home page. You're very welcome by the way, and I enjoy engaging new members, learning about them, and growing relationships with fellowship in mind.

            Hopefully, others will chime into this thread so that I do not feel that I represent the entire board or body of believers here. This is my personal view and by no means represents others.

            Originally posted by tevans9129 View Post
            So you agree then this promise to the Jewish people will not be broken by God, is that correct?
            Who is a Jew? I do not believe the current nation of Israel is Scriptural Israel if that's what you mean. The seed promised to Abraham in the covenant of grace is Jesus Christ, the true Israel, and all who through faith are united to Him and, thus, heirs of the covenant promises Gal. 3:16, 29.

            In the Reformed view, the gospel of Jesus Christ directly fulfills the promises of the covenant of grace for all believers, whether Jews or Gentiles. Israel and the church are not two distinct peoples; rather, the church is the true Israel of God, “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession” 1 Peter 2:9. True Israel is comprised of believers from every tribe tongue and nation.

            We can't say that the Church replaced the nation of Israel. The nation of Israel was dispersed, and because the U.N. had drawn some lines in the sand doesn't give occupiers of the land the right to God's promises. The Church spans the entire globe it is the inheritance of God's people. The meek shall inherit the earth. Again Galatians 3:16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. The promises are fulfilled in Christ, "And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise" Galatians 3:29. Who are the you that are Christ's? The righteous shall live by faith!

            While dispensationalists often insist that the traditional Reformed affirmation of one people of God comprised of Jewish and Gentile believers in Christ is a form of “replacement” theology, the Reformed view does not regard the gospel as “replacing” the older covenant economy with Israel but “fulfilling” it. Extreme replacement theology is the teaching that, because many of the Jews did not acknowledge Jesus Christ to be the Messiah of promise, God replaced Israel with the Gentile church. The gospel of Jesus Christ calls all nations and peoples to faith and repentance, but it leaves no room for any particular focus upon God’s redemptive purpose for His ancestral people, Israel. Because the church is the true, spiritual Israel, any peculiar focus upon the question of God’s saving intention for Israel is no longer permitted.

            Rather than speaking of a distinct covenant relationship between God and Israel that continues even after the coming of Christ and the proclamation of the gospel to the nations, replacement theology maintains that God’s program for and interest in Israel has ended.
            Back to Romans 9:6. The Geneva Study note probably best sums Romans 9:6 up without going really in depth:

            Paul enters into the handling of predestination, by means of presenting an objection: How may it be that Israel is cast off, and that in addition we must also make the covenant which God made with Abraham and his seed, frustrated and void? He answers therefore that God's word is true, although Israel is cast off: for the election of the people of Israel is so general and common, that nonetheless the same God chooses by his secret council those as it pleases him. So then this is the proposition and state of this treatise: the grace of salvation is offered generally in such a way, that in spite of how it is offered, the efficacy of it pertains only to the elect.
            Nothing could be clearer than Paul, the Hebrew of Hebrews, showing the distinction. There are those who are of fleshly Israel who are not of spiritual Israel, the ones who, by the same faith that Abraham had, trust in Jesus Christ as Lord. We read again: "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God"

            Originally posted by tevans9129 View Post
            Now this is very confusing to me.
            Hosea 6:7 came to mind because it shows that people are covenant breakers. I meant nothing more than that.

            Originally posted by tevans9129 View Post
            How does this verse verify that God does not break His covenants? Do you see why this is confusing to me?
            When people deprave the whole worship of God and adulterate it, when they corrupt the word of God and pervert his institutions, are they not covenant-breakers?

            Granted, the verse may be confusing because I didn't quite think it through. It was a verse that came to mind.

            I'm about to crash for the day. I may not be back on for awhile.

            God bless,
            William
            Comment>

            • #7
              Originally posted by tevans9129 View Post

              So you agree then this promise to the Jewish people will not be broken by God, is that correct?

              He said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell among the sons of Israel forever. And the house of Israel will not again defile My holy name, neither they nor their kings, by their harlotry and by the corpses of their kings when they die,” (Ezekiel 43:7, NASB95)


              Originally posted by William View Post

              Who is a Jew? I do not believe the current nation of Israel is Scriptural Israel if that's what you mean. The seed promised to Abraham in the covenant of grace is Jesus Christ, the true Israel, and all who through faith are united to Him and, thus, heirs of the covenant promises Gal. 3:16, 29.
              1) OK, I am going to try to abbreviate the post in order to get this issue understood.

              “Who is a Jew”

              2) To me, that is like asking who is a Japanese.

              And afterward Moses and Aaron came and said to Pharaoh, “Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, ‘Let My people go that they may celebrate a feast to Me in the wilderness.’ ”” (Exodus 5:1, NASB95)

              3) Who are these people that God said, “Let My people go that they may celebrate a feast to Me in the wilderness.”?

              4) Would you say they are Hebrews, later known as Jews? If not, then who exactly are they that celebrated feasts to God in the wilderness for forty years?

              Originally posted by tevans9129 View Post

              So you agree then this promise to the Jewish people will not be broken by God, is that correct?

              He said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell among the sons of Israel forever. And the house of Israel will not again defile My holy name, neither they nor their kings, by their harlotry and by the corpses of their kings when they die,” (Ezekiel 43:7, NASB95)
              5) You previously agreed that God does not break His covenants/promises and this seems to me to be irrefutably a promise by God so if this is not the Jewish people, whom is God speaking to Ezekiel about?

              sons of Israel forever”

              6) Can you quote one verse in the NT where Christians, the church, is referred to as “the sons of Israel”?

              6a) Is there ever a promise in the NT that God will dwell among believers forever?

              And the house of Israel will not again defile My holy name neither they nor their kings”

              6b) Who do you say the “house of Israel” is, is it the church/believers? If so, when did the church defile God’s holy name?

              6c) When has the church had “kings”?

              7) I have only quoted one verse but to be in proper context, I would have quoted Ezekiel 40-48. But had I done that, I would have 3419 questions, more or less, challenging any assertion that God was not talking to the Jewish people.

              8) If and when, we get the issue of who Jews are settled, I will return to your comments and address each one of your points.

              9) There are approximately two hundred verses where God unequivocally proclaims the Jews as, “My people”. That phrase is never used for the Church. There are over two hundred verses that contain God’s covenants and promises to the Jewish people and/or Israel. Sixteen of those covenants are “everlasting” and there is nowhere in scripture that I can find where God rescinded, cancelled or made null and void those covenants and promises. If God does not do it, is it blasphemy for man to do it for God?

              10) Hope you get some well deserved rest William, too long without sleep is not good.
              Comment>

              • #8
                Originally posted by tevans9129 View Post
                4) Reading Ezekiel 40-48, how does any of this pertain to the church? And do you have scripture just as it is written that supports your answer?
                This doesn't pertain to the church at all. It describes the conditions that will exist during the Millennium and in my opinion it is the strongest evidence that there will be a literal Millennium.
                Clyde Herrin's Blog
                Comment>

                • #9
                  Originally posted by theophilus View Post
                  This doesn't pertain to the church at all. It describes the conditions that will exist during the Millennium and in my opinion it is the strongest evidence that there will be a literal Millennium.
                  I agree and that was the point of my question to the one I responded to as it is my belief that those who deny scripture dispensations do not take Ezekiel into their views.
                  Comment>
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