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Did Calvin Love Jews?

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    Did Calvin Love Jews?

    What we have available shows Calvin was no more than a reflection of popular thought upon the issue of The Jews.

    I completely agree with Calvin's statements about the Jews deserving no respect or honor amongst True Believers, and that antiJew bigotry is a Godly pursuit.

    #2
    Originally posted by JaWanda View Post
    What we have available shows Calvin was no more than a reflection of popular thought upon the issue of The Jews.

    I completely agree with Calvin's statements about the Jews deserving no respect or honor amongst True Believers, and that antiJew bigotry is a Godly pursuit.
    Any quotes or references?
    Comment>

      #3
      Originally posted by JaWanda View Post
      What we have available shows Calvin was no more than a reflection of popular thought upon the issue of The Jews.

      I completely agree with Calvin's statements about the Jews deserving no respect or honor amongst True Believers, and that antiJew bigotry is a Godly pursuit.
      Wow, I can't believe anyone would not respect anyone else for any reason, even based on their religion. For the record, I don't think it's a very sanctified attitude and even Luther blew it on that matter, at least for a short time in his life.

      The problem with this kind of thinking is that it doesn't draw the line at religion, but always harms the person. A person is what he believes in this paradigm, and a Jew will always be a Jew regardless of his or her beliefs. A Jew hearing that he or she deserves no respect from "the true believers" of Christianity will think that this goes beyond beliefs. For example, I personally was raised in a Jewish home. When I became a Christian there were still morons who wanted to attack me because they read garbage like "The Protocols of Zion" or even comments from the Reformers or others and as such always had a prejudice- not against Judaism as they claimed (which is a plethroa of beliefs) but because of "the Jews". Most Christians, however, understand that a Jewish Christian can bring some interesting perspectives to the faith that support and promote accepted Christian orthodoxy, and also that Judaism is the bedrock of Christianity. (Edited to add): Plus I know many religious Jews that make Christians look like barbarians by their faith and holiness. They deserve respect as well as the truth in love.

      What I'm saying is that whether or not one is attacking Judaism or the Jewish people doesn't matter to the person on the receiving end. The result is the same to them. Better to take the advice of the Bible and love all men. If it's too hard, you need to pray and find a way.
      Comment>

        #4
        Originally posted by William View Post

        Any quotes or references?
        Indeed, there are quotes and references. Ready to be easily delivered by Google to an inquiring mind.
        Comment>

          #5
          Originally posted by RevT View Post

          Wow, I can't believe anyone would not respect anyone else for any reason, even based on their religion. For the record, I don't think it's a very sanctified attitude and even Luther blew it on that matter, at least for a short time in his life.

          The problem with this kind of thinking is that it doesn't draw the line at religion, but always harms the person. A person is what he believes in this paradigm, and a Jew will always be a Jew regardless of his or her beliefs. A Jew hearing that he or she deserves no respect from "the true believers" of Christianity will think that this goes beyond beliefs. For example, I personally was raised in a Jewish home. When I became a Christian there were still morons who wanted to attack me because they read garbage like "The Protocols of Zion" or even comments from the Reformers or others and as such always had a prejudice- not against Judaism as they claimed (which is a plethroa of beliefs) but because of "the Jews". Most Christians, however, understand that a Jewish Christian can bring some interesting perspectives to the faith that support and promote accepted Christian orthodoxy, and also that Judaism is the bedrock of Christianity. (Edited to add): Plus I know many religious Jews that make Christians look like barbarians by their faith and holiness. They deserve respect as well as the truth in love.

          What I'm saying is that whether or not one is attacking Judaism or the Jewish people doesn't matter to the person on the receiving end. The result is the same to them. Better to take the advice of the Bible and love all men. If it's too hard, you need to pray and find a way.
          Should Luther and Calvin have "loved all men?"
          Comment>

            #6
            Originally posted by JaWanda View Post
            What we have available shows Calvin was no more than a reflection of popular thought upon the issue of The Jews.

            I completely agree with Calvin's statements about the Jews deserving no respect or honor amongst True Believers, and that antiJew bigotry is a Godly pursuit.
            I think Jews should be given respect. We as Christians are Jewish by faith. Was Jesus not a Jew? Aren't we seed of Abraham by faith, who is the Father of Jews? I think they are of our own category. But those who are Jewish of descent but actually are not( the one who follow idols or don't believe in Jesus) we instead of being against, condemning or trying to prove something, we should stay close to them as a child of light showing the love of Jesus which is the only thing that can remove their veil. We are Jewish by faith and Gentiles by descent, therefore we are Christians. But if we condemn Jews or go against Jews, aren't we condemning ourselves. Jews are the chosen people of God( including us).
            Comment>

              #7
              Originally posted by JaWanda View Post
              antiJew bigotry is a Godly pursuit.
              Whether this is true or not depends of what god you are talking about. If you are speaking of Satan, who is the god of this world, then prejudice against Jews is a very godly pursuit indeed. Satan would like to destroy the Jews because they are God's chosen people and anyone who shares this goal is a faithful servant of Satan.
              Clyde Herrin's Blog
              Comment>

                #8
                Originally posted by JaWanda View Post

                Indeed, there are quotes and references. Ready to be easily delivered by Google to an inquiring mind.
                So you can't provide any?
                Comment>

                  #9
                  Originally posted by JaWanda View Post
                  Indeed, there are quotes and references. Ready to be easily delivered by Google to an inquiring mind.
                  You made the claim, therefore it is your responsible to support it. By the way provide those quotes from primary sources.
                  Comment>

                    #10
                    Originally posted by JaWanda View Post

                    Should Luther and Calvin have "loved all men?"
                    Luther Myths: Q and A - Alpha and Omega Ministries

                    And I'm curious how anyone reconciles:

                    Psalm 139:
                    • 19 Oh that you would slay the wicked, O God!
                    • O men of blood, depart from me!
                    • 20 They speak against you with malicious intent;
                    • your enemies take your name in vain.[b]
                    • 21 Do I not hate those who hate you, O Lord?
                    • And do I not loathe those who rise up against you?
                    • 22 I hate them with complete hatred;
                    • I count them my enemies.

                    And also Matthew 5:44
                    • But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

                    Here's Charles H. Spurgeon:

                    “Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee?” He was a good hater, for he hated only those who hated good. Of this hatred he is not ashamed, but he sets it forth as a virtue to which he would have the Lord bear testimony. To love all men with benevolence is our duty; but to love any wicked man with complacency would be a crime. To hate a man for his own sake, or for any evil done to us, would be wrong; but to hate a man because he is the foe of all goodness and the enemy of all righteousness, is nothing more nor less than an obligation. The more we love God the more indignant shall we grow with those who refuse him their affection. “If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ let him be Anathema Maranatha.” Truly, “jealousy is cruel as the grave.” The loyal subject must not be friendly to the traitor. “And am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?” He appeals to heaven that he took no pleasure in those who rebelled against the Lord; but, on the contrary, he was made to mourn by a sight of their ill behaviour. Since God is everywhere, he knows our feelings towards the profane and ungodly, and he knows that so far from approving such characters the very sight of them is grievous to our eyes.
                    And John Calvin:

                    David’s example should teach us to rise with a lofty and bold spirit above all regard to the enmity of the wicked, when the question concerns the honor of God, and rather to renounce all earthly friendships than falsely pander with flattery to the favor of those who do everything to draw down upon themselves the divine displeasure. We have the more need to attend to this, because the keen sense we have of what concerns our private interest, honor, and convenience, makes us never hesitate to engage in contest when any one injures ourselves, while we are abundantly timid and cowardly in defending the glory of God. Thus, as each of us studies his own interest and advantage, the only thing which incites us to contention, strife, and war, is a desire to avenge our private wrongs; none is affected when the majesty of God is outraged.

                    On the other hand, it is a proof of our having a fervent zeal for God when we have the magnanimity to declare irreconcilable war with the wicked and them who hate God, rather than court their favor at the expense of alienating the divine layout. We are to observe, however, that the hatred of which the Psalmist speaks is directed to the sins rather than the persons of the wicked. We are, so far as lies in us, to study peace with all men; we are to seek the good of all, and, if possible, they are to be reclaimed by kindness and good offices: only so far as they are enemies to God we must strenuously confront their resentment.
                    Which is consistent with Calvin's commentary on Matthew 5:44

                    Love your enemies. This single point includes the whole of the former doctrine: for he who shall bring his mind to love those who hate him, will naturally refrain from all revenge, will patiently endure evils, will be much more prone to assist the wretched. Christ presents to us, in a summary view, the way and manner of fulfilling this precept, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, (Mat 22:39.) For no man will ever come to obey this precept, till he shall have given up self-love, or rather denied himself, and till men, all of whom God has declared to be connected with him, shall be held by him in such estimation, that he shall even proceed to love those by whom he is regarded with hatred.

                    We learn from these words, how far believers ought to be removed from every kind of revenge: for they are not only forbidden to ask it from God, but are commanded to banish and efface it from their minds so completely, as to bless their enemies. In the meantime, they do not fail to commit their cause to God, till he take vengeance on the reprobate: for they desire, as far as lies in them, that the wicked should return to a sound mind, that they may not perish; and thus they endeavor to promote their salvation. And there is still this consolation, by which all their distresses are soothed. They entertain no doubt, that God will be the avenger of obstinate wickedness, so as to make it manifest, that those who are unjustly attacked are the objects of his care. It is very difficult, indeed, and altogether contrary to the disposition of the flesh, to render good for evil. But our vices and weakness ought not to be pleaded as an apology. We ought simply to inquire, what is demanded by the law of charity: for, if we rely on the heavenly power of the Spirit, we shall encounter successfully all that is opposed to it in our feelings.

                    This is undoubtedly the reason why monks, and other bawlers of the same class, imagined that these were advices, and not precepts, given by Christ: for they took the strength of men as the standard, for ascertaining what they owe to God and to his law. And yet the monks were not ashamed to claim perfection for themselves, having voluntarily bound themselves to attend to his advices. How faithfully they support the title to which they lay claim I do not now say: (420) but the folly and absurdity of alleging, that they are only advices, will appear from many considerations. First, to say that he advised his disciples, but did not authoritatively command them, to do what was right, is to dishonor Christ. Secondly, to represent the duties of charity, which depend on the law, as matters on which they are left at liberty, is highly foolish. (421) Thirdly, the words ἐγὼ δὲ λέγω ὑμῖν , but I say to you, mean in this passage, “I denounce,” or “I command,” and cannot, with propriety, be rendered, “I advise.” Lastly, that it is an express command of what must necessarily be obeyed, is proved, without any difficulty, from the words of Christ: for he immediately adds,

                    (420) “Je ne touche point pour le present combien ils s'acquittent vaillament et fidelement de ce dont ils se vantent de paroles.” — “I say nothing, for the present, as to the valiant and faithful manner in which they accomplish what they boast of in words.”

                    (421) “C'est une chose tant et plus absurde, que les devoirs de charite, qui dependent de la Loy, soyent mis en la liberte des hommes, de les faire, ou de les laisser.” — “It is an exceedingly absurd thing, that the duties of charity, which depend on the Law, should be put in the power of men to do them, or to let them alone.”
                    God bless,
                    William
                    Comment>

                      #11
                      Originally posted by JaWanda View Post
                      I completely agree with Calvin's statements about the Jews deserving no respect or honor amongst True Believers, and that antiJew bigotry is a Godly pursuit.
                      Hi JaWanda, which statements are those? Please post (or at least link us to) some of the comments that you're referring to. Also, please tell us which of Calvin's works they were excerpted from so that we can read them in context.

                      Thanks :)

                      --David

                      Simul Justus et Peccator ~Martin Luther

                      "We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone" ~John Calvin

                      "Instead of a river, God often gives us a brook, which may be running today and dried up tomorrow. Why? To teach us not to rest in our blessings, but in the Blesser Himself." ~A. W. Pink

                      "The secret is Christ in me, not me in a different set of circumstances" ~Elisabeth Elliot

                      "The law is for the self-righteous to humble their pride; the Gospel is for the lost to remove their despair. ~C. H. Spurgeon
                      Comment>

                        #12
                        Hi again JaWanda, I see that you're pretty new here, so I'd also like to say, WELCOME TO CF :)

                        Yours and His,
                        David
                        Simul Justus et Peccator ~Martin Luther

                        "We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone" ~John Calvin

                        "Instead of a river, God often gives us a brook, which may be running today and dried up tomorrow. Why? To teach us not to rest in our blessings, but in the Blesser Himself." ~A. W. Pink

                        "The secret is Christ in me, not me in a different set of circumstances" ~Elisabeth Elliot

                        "The law is for the self-righteous to humble their pride; the Gospel is for the lost to remove their despair. ~C. H. Spurgeon
                        Comment>

                          #13
                          JaWanda it is clear you have no source, no evidence, or anything else to back up your claim concerning Calvin. You were asked by myself, William, and St_Worn2 to provide some support. Since you have refused it is obvious that you have none, zero, nil.
                          Last edited by Origen; 08-13-2016, 05:50 AM.
                          Comment>
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