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No God?

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    No God?

    If there is no God, WHO determines right from wrong and why?

    This is a quesiton i ask many atheists.

    #2
    Oh, and another question:

    Out of all the acumilated knowledge in the universe, do you know everything?

    No.


    Do you know roughly HALF of everything?

    No.

    Ok, for the sake of argument, lets imagine you know HALF of everything.

    Now, my question is this: Could God exist in the half of everything you DON'T know about?
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      #3
      Originally posted by Calvarystudy View Post
      If there is no God, WHO determines right from wrong and why?
      This is a quesiton i ask many atheists.
      Do they have an answer?

      When I was an atheist, I would have said there is no right and wrong. God kills millions of Jews in the desert between Egypt and the promised land and god is 'good'. Hitler kills millions of Jews in death camps and he is 'evil'. What difference is there between your god and Hitler?

      "History is written by the victors." ... That's the only difference.
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        #4
        Just for fun, let me offer an atheist question for Christians to answer:

        Let's start with the definition of God.
        1. This God of yours is OMNIPOTENT (all powerful). Anything that is not all powerful, is not God.
        2. This God of yours is OMNISCIENT (knows everything). Anything that does not know everything is not God.
        3. This God of yours is OMNIPRESENT (everywhere). Anything that is not everywhere is not God.
        4. This God of yours is GOOD. Anything that is not good is not God.

        It is an irrefurable fact that bad things happen in the world. People we love get sick and die. Cars crash and people are injured. There are natural disasters. It seems that an OMNIPOTENT, OMNISCIENT, OMNIPRESENT God could do something about it. It seems that a GOOD God would want to do something about it. It is a fact that bad things are allowed to happen. WHY?

        1. Is God incapable of stopping the bad things? (Not Omnipotent)
        2. Is God unaware of the bad things? (Not Omniscient)
        3. Is God unable to be everywhere at once? (Not Omnipresent)

        If the answer to bad things is 1, 2 or 3, then this so-called god is not God (by definition). Then we must wonder IF God even exists.
        However, you will assure me that God does exist. He is Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent. This is even worse news than God not existing.

        How can you explain a God who has the power to stop bad things from happening, is aware of the bad things happening, and is present, right there, as the bad things are happening ... and God CHOOSES to do nothing about it. By the standards of human morality, there is a term for someone who is completely indifferent to the suffering around them and unwilling to render aid even when they could easily do so ... we call such a person EVIL.

        So why does God do nothing in the face of suffering? Is God a myth, or is he evil?


        (Those are the sort of questions that a real atheist struggled with.)
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          #5
          Originally posted by Calvarystudy View Post
          If there is no God, WHO determines right from wrong and why?

          This is a quesiton i ask many atheists.
          Niccolo Machiavelli or camouflaged nihilism to be more accurate.
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            #6
            To freely quote the atheist Steven Weinberg: "Why is it wrong to torture babies? Because I say so."

            In other words he has no explanation for the moral absolutes he knows to exist. Not all atheists are honest enough to admit that.
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              #7
              In every aspect of our everyday life, there is the necessity for a for a leader to control the process.Therefore, there would also be a supreme leader, a leader above all leaders to oversee our overall existence. There are things that happen around us every day that we are not able to explain how it happens. I believe that there must be supreme being at the helm of these occurrences and that supreme being is the entity that we refer to as God.
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                #8
                I am loving this discussion. There is so much I've always wanted to understand about God and how one would explain his presence to someone who doesn't believe in him. I find it hard to articulate some of the things even though I do understand them. I've been learning about the Law of Attraction, and my current area of study is the link between that and the bible and how they define 'god' in different ways but it's actually the same thing both are talking about.
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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Sheilah View Post
                  I've been learning about the Law of Attraction, and my current area of study is the link between that and the bible and how they define 'god' in different ways but it's actually the same thing both are talking about.
                  Nothing could be further from the truth. It only appears that way from a superficial understanding. When knowledge is limited things appear to be the same, but can you see the differences?

                  God bless,
                  William

                  Comment>

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Sheilah View Post
                    I've been learning about the Law of Attraction...
                    Sounds like to me you are speaking of new age thought\the so called new thought moment? "The belief that by focusing positive or negative thoughts a person brings positive or negative experiences into their life."
                    Comment>

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Calvarystudy View Post
                      If there is no God, WHO determines right from wrong and why?

                      This is a quesiton i ask many atheists.
                      And many actual athiests (not athiesm as a religion/career like Richard Dawkins) would have a long answer for you that they often would not share. It took a while to persuade the local athiest society I was actually interested and not trying to shout them down.

                      As I understand it, they determine morality by two things:
                      1) The greatest good for the greatest number, limited by the harm done
                      2) Whether they want to live in a world like that.

                      It is why there are different views, exemplified by the traditional question of whether a woman should smother her baby to stop it crying and allow the rest of her party to escape the enemies.

                      Some humanists say yes, the baby is one entity, there are more in the party, so the action saves more lives.
                      Some athiests say no because the baby is one life and an unknown potential while the adults have reached theirs, or that people murdering their children is not something that should happen.
                      There are other reasons that come into play, but in general they weigh material reasons and not spiritual ones e.g. murder is not wrong because God said so, it is wrong because of what it costs the human race in lost potential, security, harm to the ability of society to function, etc.

                      Think of it as being like the Ghandi quote "Be the change you want to see." or for an athiest, follow the rules that make the world a place they want to live in.
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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Sheilah View Post
                        I've been learning about the Law of Attraction,
                        Here is a view of the law of attraction that you might not be aware of.

                        Is The Law Of Attraction Biblical?
                        Clyde Herrin's Blog
                        Comment>

                          #13
                          Somebody created life. It just didn't create itself!
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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Calvarystudy View Post
                            If there is no God, WHO determines right from wrong and why?

                            This is a quesiton i ask many atheists.
                            I will go with your idea. The world that we have today survives because there are people who strongly believe in the existence of God. They fear God and they love God. If a person does not believe in God, there is nothing that can stop him. Let us imagine this. If there was no law, bad people will commit crimes and go free. There is law that penalizes them from committing crimes. There is law that tells them doing certain things is not okay. God is supreme law. Good people create good laws because God guides them.
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                              #15
                              We have never seen the God but we still have a firm belief in him. It is not because we are just going blindly but it is due to the symptoms. There are many symptoms that God does exist. Everything that does exist has some symptoms. Just like we can be sure that rain is going to come when there are so many dark clouds in the sky. In the same way, if we look at the complexity of the world then we can realize that these things can not come into existence without a creator. Everything is working in a proper way. Look at your solar system and stars. Look at your body function and immune system. These all things tell us that there is someone who is handling all these things and he is the God.
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