Join with others to discuss God and/or the Biblical Doctrine of the Trinity (Godhead). Discuss the attributes and characteristics of God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Jesus and the perfection of God

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  • Jesus and the perfection of God

    To me in the least, Jesus Christ (as presented on my Arabic Gospel) is indeed a divine being (the living Son of God). He took a flesh as mine to save me from my ignorance (a weakness I born with; it is called by millions as the original sin) by his ‘perfect’ teachings, sayings and hints (besides other means).
    In other words, I saw in Him the Perfection of God and I didn’t need ANY other sources (said of men or God) to live in the Light of Knowledge (the knowledge about my existence and the world as it is). Without this perfect (relatively speaking) knowledge, it was rather hard (if not impossible) for me to know the Way for which I am created for. This is how I became an independent disciple of Jesus Christ.

    So, I wonder if someone here was able seeing the perfection of Jesus teachings as I did.

    But I understand that most people have likely more interest in joining groups that see Jesus as being an idol... to be worshiped and glorified in great ceremonies.

    Kerim

  • #2
    One disciple asked Jesus to show them the Father. And Jesus asked him, Philip, have I been with you so long, and you do not know me? God is perfect. Jesus being God is perfect and his teachings amazed everyone when He walked amongst men as mortal Man. The more you read Jesus teachings, the more you'll get to know exactly what God expects us to do. Be perfect, He said, "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." And We were given the Holy Spirit to help us be perfect children of God.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by KerimF View Post
      He took a flesh as mine to save me from my ignorance (a weakness I born with; it is called by millions as the original sin) by his ‘perfect’ teachings, sayings and hints (besides other means).
      He saved us not by his teachings but by his death and resurrection. His death atoned for our sins and his resurrection proved that God accepted this atonement. Without his death and resurrection his teachings would be worthless because we don't have the ability to live up to them without the power of the Holy Spirit.
      Clyde Herrin's Blog
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      • #4
        Hi Smithee,

        If I understood you well, you found your Truth, as I did, in the sayings of 'Jesus only' who gave the last updated and complete version of all previous teachings so that whoever is created with a human living soul (besides the common human living flesh) could know, if he likes, how to live and deserve being among the sons of God, now and for eternity.

        Kerim
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        • #5
          Originally posted by theophilus View Post
          Without his death and resurrection his teachings would be worthless
          You are right but I am afraid that you and I see this event differently. In any case, I respect your view because you know what is good for you much more than I do ;)

          So I re-phrase what you said:
          Without the way by which Jesus died, the resurrection of his teachings that oppose ALL men's laws couldn't be possible.

          I guess you know that the day Jesus was condemned to death there was not even ONE person in the world who dared saying he believes Him. In fact, Jesus knew how to let even Peter "his Rock" deny Him 3 times on that day. Jesus liked to show the world that both his flesh and teachings died on the cross. And to let this point be clearer, he let his apostles isolate themselves for 40 days (the period during which a widow may be isolated to prove she has no life in her from his dead husband). The miracle is that after this "total/confirmed" death (that happened ONCE in human history and can never happen again anywhere in the future), his teachings that oppose ALL men's laws were spread all over the world.

          We live this greatest miracle of Jesus (the resurrection of his teachings) even on these days. I mean while Jesus teachings (on the Gospel) are on our hands, no one in the world dares (lack of interest if he is among the men on top or having no permission if he is among the men on bottom) addressing the 'world' clearly and openly (hence not privately as I do here ;) )... 'exactly' as Jesus did. Don't you know why ;)

          Kerim
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          • #6
            Originally posted by theophilus View Post
            He saved us not by his teachings but by his death and resurrection. His death atoned for our sins and his resurrection proved that God accepted this atonement. Without his death and resurrection his teachings would be worthless because we don't have the ability to live up to them without the power of the Holy Spirit.
            Couldn't agree with you more Theo,

            And not only was Jesus death an atonement but He was the propitiation - experiencing divine wrath due to us:
            • Isaiah 53:10 Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
            • Isaiah 53:4-6 Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

            Originally posted by theophilus View Post
            Without his death and resurrection his teachings would be worthless because we don't have the ability to live up to them without the power of the Holy Spirit.
            • 2 Corinthians 3:4-6 Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

            Soli Deo Gloria!

            God bless,
            William
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            • #7
              I am a rational man so I fully understand that whoever couldn't listen to Jesus teachings and see his signs (as the unique way by which He let his flesh and message die for 40 days), he surely won't listen to me as well. After all, I am just a saved person, not a saviour ;) And the Gospel is now everywhere.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by KerimF View Post
                I am a rational man so I fully understand that whoever couldn't listen to Jesus teachings and see his signs (as the unique way by which He let his flesh and message die for 40 days), he surely won't listen to me as well. After all, I am just a saved person, not a saviour ;) And the Gospel is now everywhere.
                Hello Kerim,

                Lemme help you a little bit on the forum. Please quote what you're responding to and from who. You can quote by highlighting the text you wish to quote, and then clicking the quote button that will appear next to it. As is, your post conveys a link between yourself and Jesus, as if someone that rejects or disagrees with you rejects or disagrees with Christ Jesus. This was what I meant to suggest in another post when stating that you yourself are becoming an obstacle in your own commentary. It helps to remove yourself from your commentary, that way, you are strictly pointing to God through the Scriptures, and not yourself in your commentary. Think of it in such a way, John the Baptist pointed to Christ and not himself, making himself a signpost. Try to lose, "I, me, mine and myself" from your commentary which ultimately keeps contrasting yourself to Christ or pointing to you. Another words, your readers are trying to see Christ Jesus, but you're in the way... know your place "servant" :)

                Just some brotherly advice,
                God bless,
                William
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by William View Post
                  Hello Kerim,

                  Lemme help you a little bit on the forum. Please quote what you're responding to and from who. You can quote by highlighting the text you wish to quote, and then clicking the quote button that will appear next to it. As is, your post conveys a link between yourself and Jesus, as if someone that rejects or disagrees with you rejects or disagrees with Christ Jesus. This was what I meant to suggest in another post when stating that you yourself are becoming an obstacle in your own commentary. It helps to remove yourself from your commentary, that way, you are strictly pointing to God through the Scriptures, and not yourself in your commentary. Think of it in such a way, John the Baptist pointed to Christ and not himself, making himself a signpost. Try to lose, "I, me, mine and myself" from your commentary which ultimately keeps contrasting yourself to Christ or pointing to you. Another words, your readers are trying to see Christ Jesus, but you're in the way... know your place "servant" :)

                  Just some brotherly advice,
                  God bless,
                  William
                  In general what you tell me is very true.
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                  • #10
                    As you know, you (with millions) have to assume, for one reason or another, that whoever knows and accepts Jesus Christ HAS TO BE a believer based on faith.

                    So I am sorry because I knew Jesus based on reason not faith :(
                    I knew Him as my Perfect Divine Teacher (the Living Son of God) because it happens, to my big surprise, He agrees with me on all what I discovered about my being and the world as it is (only my Creator can do this). In fact, no other man in human history (and now) did it, even to a lesser extent.

                    Also while I was learning scientific matters as in Math and Physics for example, I didn't believe in any axiom, theory, theorem... etc. just because some others (if not the world) say it is true. I had to check (since I was a teen) the validity and usefulness (to me in the least) of each of them first based on my personal logical reasoning (that God gave me of course). Yes, I know that my logic is not perfect (though fortunately it evolves with time) but I can't follow others blindly though many don't mind doing.

                    If my point is clear, you would know that even if the entire world will prove that Jesus is fake or didn't exist in the first place, my belief in Him (based on reason) won't be affected in any way. It is like I will stop using Pythagoras Theorem in my designs if the world finds out, by solid proofs, that Pythagoras didn't exist.

                    On the other hand, I guess you cannot change yourself to please me. Do you think I can change myself to please you ;)
                    But I am real sorry that some of my words hurt you... like I, me, mine and myself for a few.
                    It seems to me that you kindly suggest me to live on the safe side by throwing the ball on some others anytime I talk about a subject; personal or not also important or not.
                    But I used to be the sole responsible of everything I say and do while leaving others say and do whatever they like :) As you know, this is how Jesus lived.

                    Kerim
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by KerimF View Post
                      As you know, you (with millions) have to assume, for one reason or another, that whoever knows and accepts Jesus Christ HAS TO BE a believer based on faith.
                      What makes you think that? What makes you think that anyone has to assume you are a disciple by anything but by your fruits?

                      Originally posted by KerimF View Post
                      So I am sorry because I knew Jesus based on reason not faith :(
                      Apart from faith even Satan and his demons believe.

                      Originally posted by KerimF View Post
                      On the other hand, I guess you cannot change yourself to please me. Do you think I can change myself to please you ;)
                      But I am real sorry that some of my words hurt you... like I, me, mine and myself for a few

                      It seems to me that you kindly suggest me to live on the safe side by throwing the ball on some others anytime I talk about a subject; personal or not also important or not.
                      But I used to be the sole responsible of everything I say and do while leaving others say and do whatever they like :) As you know, this is how Jesus lived.
                      Kerim,

                      Since you want to make this thread all about you, do you identify as a Christian from the Protestant branch?

                      Quite surprising, that is, the more you talk about yourself. The previous post was only an attempt to share brotherly advice, but it seems that you want to be the center of attention boasting in yourself and the intellectual conviction that you received and have mastered? You can either take or leave the advice, you are not hurting anyone's feelings from what I can tell, but based on experience those that make the thread about themselves in such way tend to leave the forum when the spotlight is shined on them. You keep talking about your ability to understand and reason the Scriptures, have you provided any proof of that yet?

                      Why don't you go into our "Welcome Mat" Kerim? There you may write an introduction about yourself and there is even a testimony sub-forum. I'm sure there are interested people that would like to get to know you better Kerim.

                      Originally posted by KerimF View Post
                      ;)
                      • Proverbs 10:10 Whoever winks the eye causes trouble, and a babbling fool will come to ruin.

                      Care to share your thoughts about Proverbs 10:10?

                      William
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                      • #12
                        Please explain to me, William, how a man can claim believing that, for him in the least, Jesus is a Divine Being (the Living Son of God) while he insists that Jesus teachings/sayings are not enough for him to know the Truth he is looking for.

                        But perhaps the Truth for most people in the world (of any belief) could be expressed like this:
                        My Christian friends told me: We are saved because we accepted (believe) that Jesus Christ is our Saviour.
                        The same way my Muslim friends say (also with a great confidence): We deserve ending up into Paradise because we believe Mohammad is the messenger of Allah (God in Arabic).

                        Sorry, but this sounds to me as Magic... I mean one needs just to join a group of people who believe in this or that person and he is saved!

                        The good news is that... all believers who are based on this criteria seem very satisfied of themselves.
                        But it happens... I can't believe in Magic in any form :(

                        My Truth (that I got fully, thanks to Jesus) is:
                        Only the joy of living the True Love towards all others (hence living the Way of God) is eternal. ALL other things will end up to the state of void (the state before creation) which is referred by Jesus Christ as the "Everlasting Fire" (as we throw non-useful things into fire to let them return back to their raw state; surely not to torture them ;) ) .

                        Anyway, I guess I am talking non-sense here to many people, not just you. After all, Jesus was condemned to death for talking non-sense based on men's justice... right?

                        May God bless you.

                        Kerim

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