What an independent baptist church stands for

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Calvarystudy View Post
    pentecostals and church of christ are very similair in their un-Biblical doctrines so it does not surprise me that you think he has accepted Christ.
    Just for the record, my personal theology is Reformed Baptist (Calvinist Monergism - God alone salvation - plus a believer's baptism). I attend a local Pentacostal Church that is also independent, also practices believer's baptism, our pastor also reads from the KJV Bible and we also believe in the final authority of scripture. We have a pastor raised Moravian (one of the earliest Protestant Reformation groups), several retired Southern Baptist preachers as members and an ethnically and culturally diverse body of believers. I attend because it affords me the opportunity to fellowship with recovering addicts, drug dealers, former convicts, ex-wiccans, converted Muslims, and a variety of people that most Baptist Churches would never let in the door and would never make feel welcome.

    I meet a surprising number of people who were driven from Christianity by mean-spirited rules-heavy churches and swore never to set foot in a church again ... until God led them to our door. Yes, Pentacostals have a frustratingly broad and shallow theology, but they are hungry to learn and every Baptist Church I ever attended could learn a lot about loving the unlovely from them. So I am proud to be counted among their members.

    Are you familiar with the motto of the Moravian Church: "In essentials Unity. In non-essentials Liberty. In all things Charity."

    You are demanding unity in non-essentials.
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    • #17
      Originally posted by Calvarystudy View Post

      God bless you
      In other words, it is okay to call a congregation's doctrine into question, but do not call an individual's relationship with Christ into question.

      God bless,
      William
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      • #18
        Originally posted by theophilus View Post
        You called this thread WHAT AN INDEPENDENT BAPTIST CHURCH STANDS FOR. If it isn't about Baptist churches, what is it about?
        Independent Baptist churches are a sub-set of all Baptist churches, and have removed themselves from all denominational affiliations. You could say that they are the most conservative and most biblical of all Baptist churches and maintain strict separation from ecumenism and other compromises. So they must be regarded as a separate class of churches. Also, they generally hold to the use of the King James Bible exclusively.
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        • #19
          Originally posted by atpollard View Post
          Are you familiar with the motto of the Moravian Church: "In essentials Unity. In non-essentials Liberty. In all things Charity."
          There are many Christians who believe that this is a biblical motto. But when we study the New Testament, we do not find any such thing as "non-essentials". Instead Jude speaks about "the faith once delivered to the saints" which is described in Acts as "the apostles doctrine". Once we start talking about non-essentials, there is no end to what could be classified as non-essential.
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          • #20
            Originally posted by Lucas View Post
            Independent Baptist churches are a sub-set of all Baptist churches, and have removed themselves from all denominational affiliations. You could say that they are the most conservative and most biblical of all Baptist churches and maintain strict separation from ecumenism and other compromises. So they must be regarded as a separate class of churches. Also, they generally hold to the use of the King James Bible exclusively.
            Wrong

            The only reason the word "baptist" is in the title is that we believe in baptism.

            was John The Baptist a Baptist?
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            • #21
              Originally posted by Calvarystudy View Post

              Wrong

              The only reason the word "baptist" is in the title is that we believe in baptism.

              was John The Baptist a Baptist?
              Well there is no question whatsoever that Independent Baptist Churches include the word "Baptist" in their designation. And what you meant is baptism by immersion (which is a Baptist distinctive). And since I am very familiar with them, what I have stated is factual and accurate. As to John the Baptist, it would be preferable to call him "John the Baptizer", since he was definitely not a Baptist. Yet the Landmark Baptists mistakenly try to trace their origins back to John the Baptizer.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Lucas View Post

                Well there is no question whatsoever that Independent Baptist Churches include the word "Baptist" in their designation. And what you meant is baptism by immersion (which is a Baptist distinctive). And since I am very familiar with them, what I have stated is factual and accurate. As to John the Baptist, it would be preferable to call him "John the Baptizer", since he was definitely not a Baptist. Yet the Landmark Baptists mistakenly try to trace their origins back to John the Baptizer.

                "which is a Baptist distinctive"

                So John the Baptist and the other apostles who baptized were Baptists? GREAT!

                Maybe we should change our name just for you and eliminate the word "baptist" ?

                You are playing word-games and missing the big picture.

                which church do YOU attend? Lets attack that, huh?

                John is still mainly referred to as John the Baptist.

                Should we change our name to "Independant baptizers", then?
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                • #23
                  As one of "Those Mean Calvinists", I would be willing to share the title.
                  You could call yourself "Those Mean Baptists" (other people already do).
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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Calvarystudy View Post
                    So John the Baptist and the other apostles who baptized were Baptists? GREAT!
                    Five Baptist Distinctives (Christianity Today)

                    Five key convictions that have been essential to Baptists from their beginnings
                    1. The Supreme Authority of the Bible
                    2. Believer’s Baptism
                    3. Local Church Autonomy
                    4. Preaching and Evangelism
                    5. Separation of Church and State

                    on Believer’s Baptism:
                    Baptism is an ordinance of the New Testament, given by Christ, to be dispersed only upon persons professing faith. The way and manner of dispensing this Ordinance the Scripture holds to be dipping or plunging the whole body under water. Is is a sign as follows: first, the washing of the whole Soul in the blood of Christ; second, the interest that the Saints have in the death, burial and resurrection; third, a confirmation of our faith that as certainly as the body is buried under water and rises again, so certainly shall the bodies of the Saints be raised by the power of Christ, in the day of resurrection, to reign with Christ. - The London Confession (1644)
                    To believe these 5 things has historically been the mark (distinctive feature that set you apart from other denominations) of being a Baptist.
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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Calvarystudy View Post
                      ...which church do YOU attend? Lets attack that, huh?
                      Anyone who read my post with a cool head would have noted that I was NOT attacking Independent Baptist Churches but explaining their position vs other Baptist churches to those who may not be familiar with the Independent Baptists. Independent Baptists are generally sound in the doctrine and no one could attack them with justification.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Lucas View Post
                        There are many Christians who believe that this is a biblical motto. But when we study the New Testament, we do not find any such thing as "non-essentials". Instead Jude speaks about "the faith once delivered to the saints" which is described in Acts as "the apostles doctrine". Once we start talking about non-essentials, there is no end to what could be classified as non-essential.
                        Mark 4:3-8 [KJV]
                        Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow: And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up. And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth: But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away. And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit. And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.

                        Mark 4:13-20 [KJV]
                        And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables? The sower soweth the word. And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended. And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful. And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.


                        Were those who "heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness" and "endure but for a time" (the stony ground) saved while they recieved and endured?
                        Were those who "hear the word" but the "the cares of this world" "choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful" (sown among thorns) saved when they heard and before the word was choked?
                        Are those who "hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit" (good ground) the only people who are saved?

                        Now for the CRITICAL QUESTION: If you and I disagree on the answer, should we break fellowship over the question and each claim that the other is not a disciple of Christ, but a wolf, a tare, a goat, an anti-christ!



                        IN ESSENTIALS UNITY:
                        Essentials are matters important enough to break fellowship over and claim "you are no brother/sister of mine". Those who deny the deity of Christ, I do not view as fellow Christians. They have broken an essential for salvation and are unsaved (in my opinion). I will inform them of the truth, but if they will not hear the truth, then ...

                        Matthew 18:17 [KJV] And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
                        2 Timothy 3:5 [KJV] Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
                        Titus 3:10 [KJV] A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;


                        There are Biblical Essentials. Things in the Bible that we are commanded to correct and, if they will not accept correction, then we are to turn away from such people.



                        IN NON-ESSENTIALS LIBERTY:
                        On the other hand, there are also verses that clearly describe non-Essentials about which we may disagree and still remain in fellowship.
                        Romans 14:5-6 [KJV] One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.



                        IN ALL THINGS CHARITY:
                        1 Peter 1:22 [KJV] Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
                        Romans 13:8 [KJV] Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
                        Romans 14:4 [KJV] Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
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