I disagree with a doctrine in my church. What do I do?

Collapse
X
Collapse
First Prev Next Last
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    I disagree with a doctrine in my church. What do I do?

    I go to a non denominational church and I believe in a post tribulation rapture. However, my church believes in a pre tribulation rapture and I disagree with them on it. What do I do in a situation like this? I love my church and all, but I disagree with them on this minor issue.

    #2
    Originally posted by HeavenlyDragon View Post
    I go to a non denominational church and I believe in a post tribulation rapture. However, my church believes in a pre tribulation rapture and I disagree with them on it. What do I do in a situation like this? I love my church and all, but I disagree with them on this minor issue.
    Hello HeavenlyDragon,

    I suggest an one on one meeting with your pastor or elders if this means much to you. However, I would recommend that you keep in mind that this is a secondary matter or doctrine (eschatology), and that eschatology may require you to demonstrate grace on your part towards others on this subject matter.

    If we were talking about soteriology my position would be quite different, but again... we are talking about secondary matters, or in the way you shared it "minor issues".

    I know some may disagree with me, and I can't wait to read further responses.

    God bless,
    William
    Comment>

      #3
      But, is it a minor issue to them? And, is it just this one issue, or are your eschatological views still maturing?
      Comment>

        #4
        The General Resurrection of the Dead (Rapture) is no longer an invisible or absent feature in the world, and it doesn't necessarily conform to any preconceived notion of what it is.
        Comment>

          #5
          Stratcat had written to me regarding this topic :

          "Hello. Good to hear from you. You are on a site that agrees with you but I don't agree with them. You will see many of my threads already arguing the point, but I wanted to get this out to you privately without being distracted by the others. Your church is right. The pretribulation rapture (catching up into the air) is a different event from the second coming of Christ at the end of the tribulation where Jesus actually comes to the earth. Reread those verses in the Bible again and see if you see what I mean. In one case, we go to Christ in the air (rapture). In the other, He comes to earth with us already with him (second coming). How could that be unless we were already raptured beforehand. Also, the character of God is to remove His righteous from the place where He will show His judgement and wrath. Examples are Israel moved to Goshen, the blood for Passover, Lot and his wife, Noah and his family, and more. Now the worst ever, the tribulation, and people think God will put His righteous through it? Not at all. I agree with William to talk to your pastor about it, but be ready to hear him and not with an attitude of already having made up your mind. I am a lone wolf crying in the wilderness on this issue to most folks on this site, so they will steer you into believing more solidly what you believe, but don't let theologians tell you what to think. Let the Holy Ghost be your teacher through the Bible, as He commands. God Bless."

          To which/whom the following is addressed :

          This much I know for certain : the Day of the Lord as foretold in Malachi 4:5 is Ascension Sunday, May 8, 2016 A.D.

          Regular updates in the count up and count down to the Day of the Lord at : Free forum : Resurrected and Raptured

          How Lord Jesus brings this to be is amazing as He grants us new life even through tribulation.

          Read Ezekiel 21:12-14, specifically verse 14, which shows how one can be born and born again yet suffer death for a time, but at the resurrection the Lord Jesus is victorious through death, by His Death He has conquered Death.

          As the Day of the Lord approaches, the days of the fallen heavens and earth are replaced by the new heavens and earth where righteousness dwells according to 2 Peter 3:10-13.

          No one resurrected who has already been caught up in the air and is cognizant of it according to 1 Thessalonians 4:17 will agree with the pretribulation rapture except in the context of being predestined in Christ, but remember that being nailed to that Tree is real tribulation, as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be.

          Praise be to the Lord Jesus Christ Who lives and reigns in the glory of God the Father, and in the unity of the Holy Spirit.
          Last edited by the_sign; 04-29-2016, 09:07 AM.
          Comment>

            #6
            the_sign,

            Good to hear from you brother. Just thought to convey that private emails/messages are generally meant to be kept private. Sharing them in an open forum is generally frowned upon by members unless expressed permission is granted. This is why I am personally hesitant to correspond with people that I do not know through private message or email. To say the least, it is a good practice whenever corresponding through the web to assume that these things are going to be made public. And believe me, there are times I wish to make private messages/emails public. I do not know whether you received permission from Stratcat to post a private correspondence, and while nothing was really said that appears to be confidential, I thought to inform you on proper net-etiquette.

            God bless,
            William
            Comment>

              #7
              Originally posted by the_sign View Post
              No one resurrected who has already been caught up in the air and is cognizant of it according to 1 Thessalonians 4:17 will agree with the pretribulation rapture except in the context of being predestined in Christ, but remember that being nailed to that Tree is real tribulation, as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be.
              Right. The context of 1 Thessalonians 4:17 gives not the slightest hint that the "Rapture" has anything to do with avoiding tribulation. The context of that verse is something else entirely.

              Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen a pretribber even attempt to use scripture to directly show a pretrib Rapture. In lieu of actual biblical explanation, Some pretribbers argue that the Rapture has to be pretrib because God rescues his people from tribulation. IMO, it's pretty poor to have a major dogma that you can only defend through rationalization, instead of direct verses. But, yes, God does, but not always, rescue his people from judgement upon those around them.

              God already has rescued his people from the Great Tribulation. The Tribulation was the seven-year Roman-Jewish war, of which the Temple was destroyed at the halfway point, in 70AD. See Matthew 24:2, Jesus clear about which Temple. And, Matthew 24:34 requires it be the first century (to those not refusing to exercise sound reading comprehension). There's nothing in this chapter showing the Tribulation that has anything to do with the world (the KJV word "world" means "age"). The location, Judea, and the instructions to reach safety are given in Matthew 24:16. But,many Evangelicals, especially Dispensationalists, are so caught up in their web of nonsense, that they can't see what's in front of them.

              The early church father, Eusebius, in his book of church history, says, "But the people of the church in Jerusalem had been commanded by a revelation, vouchsafed to approved men there before the war, to leave the city and to dwell in a certain town of Perea called Pella. And when those that believed in Christ had come there from Jerusalem, then, as if the royal city of the Jews and the whole land of Judea were entirely destitute of holy men, the judgment of God at length overtook those who had committed such outrages against Christ and his apostles, and totally destroyed that generation of impious men." History records that Christians escaped the great Tribulation.

              Indeed, Christ's Olivet discourse, the passage pretribbers get the "Tribulation", isn't about our future, it is about God's judgement on Judea that came to pass almost 2000 years ago. This passage also mentions nothing about the Rapture. Although, pretribbers, in their insanity, point to Matthew 24:40-41 as a reference to the Rapture. The context is clear, those people taken away aren't being Raptured, they're being judged. Far from being rescued before the Tribulation, they're destroyed in the Tribulation.



              Comment>

                #8
                I did not give the sign permission to post my PRIVATE email. I know nothing is private on the internet, but thought courtesy could be found here. Regarding eschatology, until you people learn from the Bible by believing in it your story is wrong. It doesn't even make sense. Argue all you want, I'm through! You heap teachers on yourselves, let others seduce you and do not trust the Lord to be your teacher. You can't compare what is going on in the world now and say that is what the Bible says happens after the tribulation. Amillennialism is just a bunch of garbage and I say this because this is a PROTESTANT site, not the Presbyterian site. Admin should have saved his money and simply made this site the Presbyterian site (I refuse to call it Reformed) and not bothered with the new site. This site used to be my forum home 2 years ago, but he let foul men corrupt him into believing false doctrine. He's changed for the worse. So go ahead and ban me. I ban myself because this place is bad for believers. Attitudes are rotten and not Christ-like, as I can't post anything unless I agree with you guys. Go ahead and preach to the choir. You don't believe in the whole Bible and you let other people do your thinking for you, as you may sound like you have a lot of knowledge but are spiritually lazy. Learn to trust in the Lord with all thine heart and lean not unto thine own understanding. That doesn't happen here. Now do you all have the guts to keep this post up or just delete it because you can't take criticism? I've been a long-time poster and since the Presbyterian mindset took over, I can't stand how this site has evolved. Churchianity instead of Christianity. You are no better than the RCC which places church tradition and doctrine above the Bible. And your doctrine's been corrupted. This is where I stand: the Bible first through the Holy Spirit. Period. Bye!
                Comment>

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Stratcat View Post
                  Admin should have saved his money and simply made this site the Presbyterian site (I refuse to call it Reformed) and not bothered with the new site. This site used to be my forum home 2 years ago, but he let foul men corrupt him into believing false doctrine. He's changed for the worse.
                  Strat,

                  In the two years we have fellowshiped I have gathered the following about you:
                  1. Independent
                  2. Baptist
                  3. Credo Baptist
                  4. Dispensationalist
                  5. Rapture Theology

                  In the four years of my online engagement and two years of site operation I am:
                  1. Presbyterian
                  2. Protestant = catholic evangelical reformed
                  3. Systematic
                  4. Creedal
                  5. Confessional
                  6. Calvinist
                  7. Paedo-baptist
                  8. Covenant Theology
                  9. Amillennialist


                  Lemme ask you, in those two years have you learned different theological positions? Have you made any new friends and learned from others even though you may disagree? From what I know of you, you're going to an Independent/Baptist/Arminian/Dispensationalist/Rapture ready church. A church that you do not agree on essential soteriology. If I were going to such a place and didn't agree with these doctrines I would merely be attending a social club. What kind of worship is it when I couldn't even say amen to an Arminian prayer? You say I have let foul men corrupt me? It seems to me that you have let your church isolate you to the point where I wonder if they are separatist? Perhaps it is your intent to burn down every bridge on the way out of the forum? Only you and I know how many people you personally have butted heads with that resulted in banning members in order to protect our friendship. I am not even banning members that disagree with me, why would I base a forum on those that agree with you, Strat?

                  I don't know if you have noticed that there has been a change that has occurred in this forum? For the last two weeks a dozen or so members have joined the forum mostly of which are now active. How long have you been on your "break" from the forum? I take it you have been doing some soul searching? This is what you came back with?

                  While I wish you the best at your church and at it alone I wish you leaving was under different conditions. I think you said enough. Lets leave it as so.

                  God bless
                  William
                  Comment>

                    #10
                    Originally posted by the_sign View Post
                    I wanted to get this out to you privately without being distracted by the others.
                    Stratcat
                    Strat, I understand your frustration (to put it mildly) that a private message - stated as "private" - was broadcast without your consent. You have been a valuable asset to this forum, and there have been many learning curves along the way for all who have engaged here. I'm sorry that this is that straw that has caused you to leave the forum, and hope that you stay long enough to read this. We as Christians will have different understandings as our faith is challenged and as we are influenced by others. Some times we openly allow influences, and sometimes the influences happen over time. We label ourselves and we label others. I'm just glad for each day that I wake up and realize that God isn't done with me yet. Perhaps I"m doing stuff right, and definitely I'm doing stuff wrong, but God is giving me more time to make adjustments during this short on earth before he calls me home. Proverbs 19:21 "Many are the plans in the mind of man, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand."

                    the_sign
                    Welcome to our Forum. May we each acknowledge where we have offended.
                    Comment>

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Stratcat View Post
                      I did not give . . .
                      I addressed that to you as personally as possible in post #54 at :

                      Link

                      The damage of secret societies have never been more evident than they are today : two elections out of step with the St. Malachy prophecy.

                      Use of private messaging to add to such demise is not beneficial, nor necessarily is banning.

                      Lactantius wrote "Therefore, with regard to this precept of God, there ought to be no exception at all; but that it is always unlawful to put to death a man, whom God willed to be a sacred animal."

                      To sever the intellect is a grave matter.

                      From Pascendi Dominici Gregis - On the Doctrine of the Modernists - 8 September 1907

                      "Let us turn for a moment, Venerable Brethren, to that most disastrous doctrine of agnosticism. By it every avenue to God on the side of the intellect is barred to man, while a better way is supposed to be opened from the side of a certain sense of the soul and action."

                      Originally posted by Stratcat View Post
                      You are no better than the RCC which places church tradition and doctrine above the Bible.
                      There are those things which Roman demonization places upon the Roman Catholic Church as a whole, and as such are detrimental to the community.

                      Every tittle of Tradition and Doctrine in the Holy Roman Catholic Church is based upon the Holy Bible.
                      Comment>

                        #12
                        If that is the only thing that you disagree with, I would ignore it. It's hard to find a church that fits your beliefs exactly. If it continues to bug you, ask one of the Elders out for coffee and have them explain why they believe it. Bring why you believe what you believe and see what makes the most sense. If you can't get past it, I would try looking for a different church but only if this really means that much to you. I once went to a church that believed you could have coitus in heaven, and I was deeply disturbed by it and had to leave. So I get your distress.
                        Comment>

                          #13
                          I know of so many people, mostly relatives, who changed religion because of disagreements with the church doctrine and practices. For one, some Catholic relatives left the church when they learned of the criticisms of Fundamentalists about the idols that we worship. I admit that there are Catholics who worship the statues and it is literally against the Bible teachings. However, there are reasons for that and it also depends on the passion of the faithful. One good explanation is the inspiration that the holy statue gives a faithful.

                          Now if you are not comfortable with a doctrine or practice of your church, the only option is to leave and go on a search. And if you fail to find what you are looking for then that means you have to go back to your church.
                          Comment>
                          Working...
                          X
                          Articles - News - SiteMap