Rom 8:9

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  • Rom 8:9

    I'd like to establish a premise to a possible discussion.

    It's Rom. 8:9

    In Rom. 8:9 , it tells us if we do not have the Spirit of Christ , Christ is none of ours. Now what it doesn't say and is what i'm asking others to agree with , is that if we do not have the Spirit of Christ , and Christ is none of ours , than Gods Word and the promises there in can't be ours either , correct?

  • #2
    That sounds reasonable to me.
    Clyde Herrin's Blog
    Comment>

    • #3
      Originally posted by theophilus View Post
      That sounds reasonable to me.
      Thanks theo, i'll wait to let some others weigh in before i go forward.
      Comment>

      • #4
        Hi Jon, I'm not sure if this is what you're after, but here are a few verses that seem to speak to your POV.
        I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. You know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. ~John 14:16-17

        The message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. ~1 Corinthians 1:18

        The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually appraised. ~1 Corinthians 2:14
        Yours and His,
        David
        Simul Justus et Peccator ~Martin Luther

        "We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone" ~John Calvin

        "The Christian does not think God will love us because we are good, but that God will make us good because He loves us." ~C. S. Lewis

        "The secret is Christ in me, not me in a different set of circumstances" ~Elisabeth Elliot

        "The law is for the self-righteous to humble their pride; the Gospel is for the lost to remove their despair. ~C. H. Spurgeon
        Comment>

        • #5
          Originally posted by St_Worm2 View Post
          Hi Jon, I'm not sure if this is what you're after, but here are a few verses that seem to speak to your POV.Yours and His,
          David
          Yes David , those verses would seem to support how i'm understanding Rom 8:9.

          Does that mean your in agreement? That if the "Spirit of Christ" is not in us , Christ is none of ours , and as the result of Christ being none of ours , His Word and the promises there in are not ours either ?

          I'd really like to get a discussion going with Theo, David and William. But to start out , i need to establish a premise of understanding between us.

          Theo is in agreement, i'll wait for David and William to weigh in.
          Comment>

          • #6
            Originally posted by faither View Post
            I'd like to establish a premise to a possible discussion.

            It's Rom. 8:9

            In Rom. 8:9 , it tells us if we do not have the Spirit of Christ , Christ is none of ours. Now what it doesn't say and is what i'm asking others to agree with , is that if we do not have the Spirit of Christ , and Christ is none of ours , than Gods Word and the promises there in can't be ours either , correct?
            In the context of Romans 8:9 Christians must deny the flesh. When the Holy Spirit reigns the flesh is abolished. In those the Spirit doesn't reign, they belong not to Christ. They are not Christians who serve the flesh. If we separate Christ from His own Spirit then we make him dead.

            As for the promises not being ours, from a covenant perspective, I'll have to ask you to explain further.

            God bless,
            William

            Comment>

            • #7
              Originally posted by William View Post

              In the context of Romans 8:9 Christians must deny the flesh. When the Holy Spirit reigns the flesh is abolished. In those the Spirit doesn't reign, they belong not to Christ. They are not Christians who serve the flesh. If we separate Christ from His own Spirit then we make him dead.

              As for the promises not being ours, from a covenant perspective, I'll have to ask you to explain further.

              God bless,
              William
              My perspective is the place where we all start in our walk with Christ. The beginning. Denying the flesh is something that would be happening after the very start.

              I'm simply highlighting the state of being that we all are in at "the start." The Spirit of Christ is not sealed inside us yet, so we are none of His. (Christ)

              What i'm asking you to agree with , is that at the start of the walk or journey , the Spirit of Christ is not ours yet , meaning Christ is not ours yet , so do you agree that Gods Word and the promises there in are not ours either yet? Remember, "At the very beginning."
              Comment>

              • #8
                Originally posted by faither View Post

                My perspective is the place where we all start in our walk with Christ. The beginning. Denying the flesh is something that would be happening after the very start.

                I'm simply highlighting the state of being that we all are in at "the start." The Spirit of Christ is not sealed inside us yet, so we are none of His. (Christ)

                What i'm asking you to agree with , is that at the start of the walk or journey , the Spirit of Christ is not ours yet , meaning Christ is not ours yet , so do you agree that Gods Word and the promises there in are not ours either yet? Remember, "At the very beginning."

                To highlight the state of being at the beginning further , we have only been drawn by the Father.
                Comment>

                • #9
                  Originally posted by faither View Post

                  My perspective is the place where we all start in our walk with Christ. The beginning. Denying the flesh is something that would be happening after the very start.

                  I'm simply highlighting the state of being that we all are in at "the start." The Spirit of Christ is not sealed inside us yet, so we are none of His. (Christ)

                  What i'm asking you to agree with , is that at the start of the walk or journey , the Spirit of Christ is not ours yet , meaning Christ is not ours yet , so do you agree that Gods Word and the promises there in are not ours either yet? Remember, "At the very beginning."
                  Thank you for clarifying, I agree that in the beginning of our walk the remission of sins can never be separated from the Spirit of regeneration. This is where I paused, but I think you clarified nicely, the NT covenants sign seal and mark (water) points to the promises from God to us. Because one receives water does not mean that one is sealed, but the mark is real and the person(s) are marked out from the world, the seal marked us out from the world, so that people may know to whom an object belonged based on the seal affixed to it.

                  So what I was leaning towards was Acts 2:39 which in some cases, the promises are ours now (head of household) and yet to our children and those far off which may not of been brought to saving faith yet, but are to receive the sign seal and mark of the NT covenant which points to the promises.

                  What you are suggesting I agree in part, mainly, because like the sign seal and mark of circumcision, Abraham received the visible sign seal and mark sometime after he was already saved (Genesis 15:6). Some receive the sign seal and mark (water) in baptism before they can actually act upon their faith, for them, the promises are pushed into the future, but at the same time the blessings of the covenant are real to them. For example, in Hebrews 6 people can taste the fruits of the Spirit and yet themselves produce no fruits, they are not saved but they receive the blessings of tasting the fruit.

                  I don't mean to split hairs, and I agree, but just clarifying a thing or two. Consider Hebrews 6:

                  Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 and of instruction about washings,[a] the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits. 4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. 7 For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.
                  Hope I have not lead you to a different direction, I just wished to clarify my thoughts before agreeing with you! Please continue.

                  God bless,
                  William
                  Comment>

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by faither View Post


                    To highlight the state of being at the beginning further , we have only been drawn by the Father.
                    My bad, Faither, please continue as I see that you were addressing more than meets the eye.

                    You're getting into monergism. Please continue, there are so many aspects of the Ordo Salutis that occur before we were awares, before the foundation of the world, and when we were yet dead in Sin and Trespasses, God made us alive ... . by Grace, Grace by which we were saved through faith, and this was not from ourselves, but the object of our faith that Saved us - Jesus Christ.

                    If we take Ephesians 2:5 and parallel that with Ephesians 2:8-9 we can see the timing of our Regeneration, and from whom Grace abounds and the recipients effectually being drawn by Grace.

                    I'll do my very best to confine myself to the supplied text Romans 8:9. Please continue, from this text I agree with your premise.

                    God bless,
                    William
                    Comment>

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by William View Post

                      My bad, Faither, please continute as I see that you were addressing more than meets the eye.

                      You're getting into monergism. Please continue, there are so many aspects of the Ordo Salutis that occur before we were awares, before the foundation of the world, and when we were yet dead in Sin and Trespasses, God made us alive ... . by Grace, Grace by which we were saved through faith, and this was not from ourselves, but the object of our faith that Saved us - Jesus Christ.

                      If we take Ephesians 2:5 and parallel that with Ephesians 2:8-9 we can see the timing of our Regeneration, and from whom Grace abounds and the recipients effectually being drawn by Grace.

                      I'll do my very best to confine myself to the supplied text Romans 8:9. Please continue, from this text I agree with your premise.

                      God bless,
                      William

                      No problem William, The premise i'm trying to establish is the start of the Salvation journey or process.

                      Rom. 8:9 is kind of a foundational Scripture that defines a state of being in our walk with Christ.

                      You do make a good point , from Gods perspective ,we were chosen long before we were His. But thats a paradoxical truth , and hopefully another discussion.

                      So you and Theo are in agreement, i'l wait a bit to give David a chance to respond.
                      Comment>

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by faither View Post
                        Yes David , those verses would seem to support how i'm understanding Rom 8:9.

                        Does that mean your in agreement? That if the "Spirit of Christ" is not in us , Christ is none of ours , and as the result of Christ being none of ours, His Word and the promises there in are not ours either ?
                        Hi Jon, yes, I believe/agree that is true a) because it's what the Bible clearly teaches and b) because I have witnessed it so often personally (I'm referring principally to the saint's ability to apprehend God's word on the one hand, and the inability of the lost on the other).

                        In Christ,
                        David


                        "If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s
                        descendants, heirs according to promise"

                        Galatians 3:29

                        Last edited by David Lee; 10-28-2016, 06:55 PM.
                        Simul Justus et Peccator ~Martin Luther

                        "We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone" ~John Calvin

                        "The Christian does not think God will love us because we are good, but that God will make us good because He loves us." ~C. S. Lewis

                        "The secret is Christ in me, not me in a different set of circumstances" ~Elisabeth Elliot

                        "The law is for the self-righteous to humble their pride; the Gospel is for the lost to remove their despair. ~C. H. Spurgeon
                        Comment>

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by St_Worm2 View Post

                          Hi Jon, yes, I believe/agree that is true a) because it's what the Bible clearly teaches and b) because I have witnessed it so often personally (I'm am referring principally to the saint's ability to apprehend God's word on the one hand, and the inability of the lost on the other).

                          In Christ,
                          David



                          "If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s
                          descendants, heirs according to promise"

                          Galatians 3:29
                          Thats great David. I think all 4 of us are in agreement that at the beginning of the Salvation journey , The Spirit of Christ is "not" inside us yet, which means Christ and His Word/promises are not ours , and therefore not ours to claim yet.
                          Comment>

                          • #14
                            So to move ahead in the Salvation journey or process , we are at the start , the only thing that has happened is we have been "drawn" to Christ by the Father. Because nobody comes to Christ less the Father draws him.

                            So were being drawn by the Father , or called out.

                            My next question , is how do we respond , or answer the call of the Father , what must we as the called out ones do to begin a relationship with Christ?

                            Comment>

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by faither View Post
                              ...how do we respond, or answer the call of the Father, what must we as the called out ones do to begin a relationship with Christ?
                              The Lord says "believe" (i.e. John 3:16; John 3:18; John 5:24; John 20:31). St. Paul says "believe" (i.e. Romans 4:5) and "confess and believe" (i.e. Romans 10:9-10).

                              --David


                              "He who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me,
                              has eternal life, and does not come into judgment,
                              but has passed out of death into life"

                              John 5:24
                              Simul Justus et Peccator ~Martin Luther

                              "We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone" ~John Calvin

                              "The Christian does not think God will love us because we are good, but that God will make us good because He loves us." ~C. S. Lewis

                              "The secret is Christ in me, not me in a different set of circumstances" ~Elisabeth Elliot

                              "The law is for the self-righteous to humble their pride; the Gospel is for the lost to remove their despair. ~C. H. Spurgeon
                              Comment>
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