Faith discussions: improve your walk with the Lord, build up your prayer life, grow in your faith, love others in your church, and other general faith type discussions.

Why I'm opposed to the Nicene Creed

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Why I'm opposed to the Nicene Creed

    I oppose lowering Christ's standard of perfect exposition in favor of the demands of a megalomaniacal sun-worshiper.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Zog Has-fallen View Post
    a megalomaniacal sun-worshiper.
    Constantinople?

    Is there anything in the Nicene Creed with which you disagree?

    Comment>

    • #3
      Originally posted by Cornelius View Post

      Constantinople?

      Is there anything in the Nicene Creed with which you disagree?
      You mean Constantine. See Link

      There is no point in the Nicene Creed for which I disagree. However, I disapprove of the presupposition that ecclesiastical councils are exempt from corruption and apostasy.
      Comment>

      • #4
        Originally posted by Zog Has-fallen View Post
        There is no point in the Nicene Creed for which I disagree. However, I disapprove of the presupposition that ecclesiastical councils are exempt from corruption and apostasy.
        I agree. I hold only the Bible as inspired (in the original autographs). The point of creeds is to settle disputes over very basic matters in which it would likely be crass for anyone to hold an opposing position.

        The Nicene Creed says Jesus is one substance with the Father. So, we can follow the creed and put aside anyone who denies the divinity of Jesus.

        Q:If Jesus is God, why did he pray to God?
        A: We go by the Nicene Creed, so as a church we will not debate whether or not Jesus is God. And, further, this is an essential doctrine. But, here's why we believe the Bible teaches that Jesus is God...

        Comment>

        • #5
          Originally posted by Cornelius View Post
          The Nicene Creed says Jesus is one substance with the Father. So, we can follow the creed and put aside anyone who denies the divinity of Jesus.
          I have already expressed my disapproval of the word substance in another thread. As I see it, being of one substance with the Father is ridiculously vague. Likewise, the divinity of Jesus is terribly imprecise.

          Originally posted by Cornelius View Post
          Q:If Jesus is God, why did he pray to God?
          A: We go by the Nicene Creed, so as a church we will not debate whether or not Jesus is God. And, further, this is an essential doctrine. But, here's why we believe the Bible teaches that Jesus is God...
          I see it as the spirit of antichrist that forbids debating the question of equality between Jesus and God.

          Like the Apostle Paul, I believe in one God the Father, not one God the Trinity. [FONT=Arial]1 Corinthians 8:6-7. [/FONT]

          Comment>

          • #6
            Originally posted by Zog Has-fallen View Post
            I have already expressed my disapproval of the word substance in another thread. As I see it, being of one substance with the Father is ridiculously vague. Likewise, the divinity of Jesus is terribly imprecise.
            The traditional creeds of the church come up short of many issues, especially in their failure to address modern disputes concerning important doctrine -- which is fine, I don't believe the modern church is at all capable of producing a sound creed. You can also point to other issues, like vagueness, but more precious increases the chance of going too far.

            Like the Apostle Paul, I believe in one God the Father, not one God the Trinity. 1 Corinthians 8:6-7.
            1 Corinthians 8:6-7 says all things were created through Jesus. I don't know how you can process that without accepting the Trinity (or some variation thereof). Jesus, pre-incarnate, is not a man, not a creation, leaving only God. Do you believe Jesus is an angel? Aren't angels created beings?

            Father God and Lord Jesus? The word "and" is an English word. The original Greek doesn't carry the same meaning, both in definition and idiom, as the English translation which might imply separation. Take Galatians 6:16, "And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God." This verse actually equates the saints with the Israel of God, rather than implies that they're separate.

            Your verse reference is not a statement about the relationship of the Son to the Father. You're treating Paul's statement as addressing an issue that it doesn't address. Jesus is not called the son here, and so it's wrong to conclude that "father" means the father of the Jesus. Paul means the triune God is our father and we're monotheists with one God. We have one Lord, the triune God, but especially Jesus, the second person of the Trinity. Would you have a Lord other than the one true God? Angels are not our Lords.

            OK, you don't accept the Trinity. I'm willing to debate anything, because I fear no idea. But, the Church doesn't have time to host debates of any doctrine for any challenger, nor should the church give credibility to bad doctrine by giving bad doctrine more time that it's worth. And, saints have examined scripture for 2000 years, so it's not likely that there could be a sound challenges well-settled doctrine, especially as put forth by the creeds. Also, I doubt our host runs this forum to provide a base of attack upon credal interpretations of scripture.
            Comment>

            • #7
              Originally posted by Cornelius View Post
              I don't believe the modern church is at all capable of producing a sound creed. You can also point to other issues, like vagueness, but more precious increases the chance of going too far.
              Actually, it’s very easy. Check out The Fundamental Beliefs of Millerite Adventists, Circa 2015.

              Originally posted by Cornelius View Post
              1 Corinthians 8:6-7 says all things were created through Jesus. I don't know how you can process that without accepting the Trinity (or some variation thereof).
              OK. I invite you to examine the variation in the specified link.

              Originally posted by Cornelius View Post
              Jesus, pre-incarnate, is not a man, not a creation, leaving only God.
              You have not carefully considered all the possibilities.

              Originally posted by Cornelius View Post
              Do you believe Jesus is an angel? Aren't angels created beings?
              Jesus is not a created being. And He wasn’t birthed. And He’s not an angel.

              Originally posted by Cornelius View Post
              Father God and Lord Jesus? The word "and" is an English word. The original Greek doesn't carry the same meaning, both in definition and idiom, as the English translation which might imply separation. Take Galatians 6:16, "And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God." This verse actually equates the saints with the Israel of God, rather than implies that they're separate.
              That’s interesting. I’ll look into that.

              Originally posted by Cornelius View Post
              OK, you don't accept the Trinity
              "Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. But not everyone knows this." 1 Corinthians 8:6-7.

              Originally posted by Cornelius View Post
              Saints have examined scripture for 2000 years, so it's not likely that there could be a sound challenges well-settled doctrine, especially as put forth by the creeds.
              Does that mean you accept the Council of Trent?
              Comment>

              • #8
                Originally posted by Zog Has-fallen View Post
                Sure, it's easy, each in our own eyes.

                Comment>

                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cornelius View Post

                  Sure, it's easy, each in our own eyes.
                  The trick in our very respectable fundamental beliefs is that it corrects all other Creeds, summarizes the most important New Testament beliefs, documents the transition between the Old and New Testaments, and outlines the book of Revelation.

                  Comment>

                  • #10
                    Zog, who is Jesus? God? Man? Something else?
                    Comment>

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cornelius View Post
                      Zog, who is Jesus? God? Man? Something else?
                      Jesus is the Son of God. Like the Father, the Son is an eternal Being that possesses all the infinite qualities of the Father. Nevertheless, the Father is the Most High because it can only be that the infinitude of His infinite qualities are the greatest possible infinities.

                      Mathematicians should be able to understand this.

                      Confessing Millerite Adventists respect the revelation given to the Lutheran mathematician Georg Cantor. In essence, mathematically speaking, infinity comes in many sizes.
                      Comment>

                      • #12
                        If the son possess all the infinite qualities of the Father, then wouldn't he be either a god himself, else part of the one God?
                        Comment>

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cornelius View Post
                          If the son possess all the infinite qualities of the Father, then wouldn't he be either a god himself, else part of the one God?
                          Only if you insist. Furthermore, it's easy to assign a god status to Jesus because God applies the term to mortals.

                          Exodus 7:1
                          So the Lord said to Moses: “See, I have made you as God to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet.”

                          Psalm 82
                          1 God stands in the congregation of the mighty;
                          He judges among the gods.
                          2 How long will you judge unjustly,
                          And show partiality to the wicked? Selah
                          3 Defend the poor and fatherless;
                          Do justice to the afflicted and needy.
                          4 Deliver the poor and needy;
                          Free them from the hand of the wicked.
                          5 They do not know, nor do they understand;
                          They walk about in darkness;
                          All the foundations of the earth are unstable.
                          6 I said, “You are gods,
                          And all of you are children of the Most High.
                          7 But you shall die like men,
                          And fall like one of the princes.”
                          Comment>

                          • #14
                            You are certainly free to interpret your own way. But John writes twice that JESUS is GOD. John 1 and 10. I wonder of there is a penalty for not believing that? What do you think, Cornelius? Doesn't JESUS come back with a vengeance? He judges the world. He rules the world. He rules the universe. The Hebrew word ELOHIM, another word for GOD, is plural and our Jewish friends have been using that for a few thousand years or so.
                            Comment>

                            • #15
                              My journey back to the LORD came thru an SDA prophecy seminar thing. I did not know they teach that JESUS is not GOD. Do you all use the NKJ version?
                              Comment>
                              Working...
                              X
                              Articles - News - SiteMap