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A Question For "Our" Catholic People.

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  • A Question For "Our" Catholic People.

    What has Mother Mary actually ever done for you personally? And here we have an ancillary question, As you marvelously and humbly pray to her, is she grimacing in disbelief as she sees your gullibility to Doctrinal error which tries to state she has any authority or influence up in Heaven?

    [Hint: Let's see how your Lord and Savior, Emanuel Jesus Christ, treated her: In every interaction Jesus had with Mary, He either chided her, or corrected her. And, He never spoke of her being a leader in The Church.]

  • #2
    Originally posted by Jackson View Post
    What has Mother Mary actually ever done for you personally? And here we have an ancillary question, As you marvelously and humbly pray to her, is she grimacing in disbelief as she sees your gullibility to Doctrinal error which tries to state she has any authority or influence up in Heaven?

    [Hint: Let's see how your Lord and Savior, Emanuel Jesus Christ, treated her: In every interaction Jesus had with Mary, He either chided her, or corrected her. And, He never spoke of her being a leader in The Church.]
    Jesus obeyed his mother. Jesus did not seem to want to change the water into wine, but he did as his mother asked.


    Comment>

    • #3
      Originally posted by JohnLove View Post

      Jesus obeyed his mother. Jesus did not seem to want to change the water into wine, but he did as his mother asked.

      Is that it? He made wine to get the wedding party even more drunk than they were. It was a huge bash, with servants, a governor running the venue, and Mary drunk in the kitchen. Why was she only concerned with her next drink, and not with any other aspects of the occasion, the food, the ceremony, the guests she must have known, and the safety of all those drunken people?

      How did she know Jesus could make great wine from water? It was beca use He did it all the time at home. She was an alcoholic, worried about her next drink. She did not even say, "Thank You, Son! I sure love you!" Nope, just like an alcoholic, she was too foggy to be polite, and she took Jesus for granted. And, the next few days she had to be taken by Jesus and The Disciples to Capernahum to sleep off her hangover. There is no stated reason for that little trip to be done, but the note was narrated right after the drunken party.

      Lol. Sure. Jesus gave her what she wanted, after chiding her about not knowing what His Ministry and Work were about. She knew nothing about His "time." She was all about the vino.
      Comment>

      • #4
        Jackson, I see nothing in scripture to suggest Mary was an alcoholic. Asking Jesus to help out at a big wedding doesn't do it. And, unless you think Mary is alive and omniscient, why do you think she sees all the Catholics praying to her?

        JohnLove, Jesus did many times what others have asked him. And, when Mary asked for help with the wine, Jesus was less than gracious toward her, "Woman, what does this have to do with me?" He didn't refer to her in familiar terms and he chided her for asking. Catholic doctrine concerning Mary is not Christian.
        Comment>

        • #5
          Originally posted by Cornelius View Post
          Jackson, I see nothing in scripture to suggest Mary was an alcoholic. Asking Jesus to help out at a big wedding doesn't do it. And, unless you think Mary is alive and omniscient, why do you think she sees all the Catholics praying to her?

          JohnLove, Jesus did many times what others have asked him. And, when Mary asked for help with the wine, Jesus was less than gracious toward her, "Woman, what does this have to do with me?" He didn't refer to her in familiar terms and he chided her for asking. Catholic doctrine concerning Mary is not Christian.
          I agree. There are things in Scripture you do not see. Tell me why Mary was so concerned about giving a huge amount of additional wine to people who had already become inebriated. It would have been a major social faux pas for the Governor of the Feast to have not provided enough wine, especially since it was such a common commodity. Mary went over the head of the Governor by taking it upon herself to get her next drink.
          Last edited by Jackson; 08-01-2015, 02:12 PM.
          Comment>

          • #6
            Jackson, my daughter recently sprained her ankle very badly - a high ankle sprain, and after over 2 weeks she could put no weight on it at all. To do so caused her intense pain.

            I was concerned for her and for her job. She left to go to a football/pizza night at a friends and stayed overnight, hobbling on crutches with an airboot on her foot.

            I prayed for her by asking Mary to pray for my daughter.

            The next day my daughter walked into the house in her regular shoes walking perfectly normally and without pain.

            When I asked her what happened, she told me they were at the store, and one moment she wasn't able to put weight on it, and suddenly the next moment she could and had been walking normally every since. This happened right around the time I asked Mary to pray for her.

            Even though I find prayers are answered very powerfully when I ask Mary to pray from some need, my jaw still dropped when I saw her walking into the house normally on both feet unaided and without pain.

            Comment>

            • #7
              Hello thereselittleflower,

              Just popping in to the Catholic category to say hello and welcome to the forum!

              God bless,
              William
              Comment>

              • #8
                Thank you Willaim. :) It's nice to meet you.
                Comment>

                • #9
                  that context seemed more a rebuke of mary.
                  the 'obeying part' is what catholic's prefer in support of the system made around her.
                  jesus relatives often misjudge and pre-empt christ, especially the women.

                  Originally posted by JohnLove View Post

                  Jesus obeyed his mother. Jesus did not seem to want to change the water into wine, but he did as his mother asked.
                  Comment>

                  • #10
                    In Tanach every prayer is directing to Yahweh. No teaching on how to word a prayer.

                    Pharaos magicans made nearly all the same miracles that Moses did. Moses did them because Yahweh said him what to do, they were Yahweh's miracles.
                    When the last miracle happened and Yahweh saved the Hebrews to offer Him a sacrifice did Yahweh say that all the gods in the power of which the Egyptian magicans had performed their miracles where now condemned.



                    In the NC Scriptures prayer were directed to Yahweh. When asked Yeshua says to His disciples how to pray; Our Father who art in Heavens. No prayers even directed to Jesus. People did beg and ask for His help though. But He said that everything that He does He does in the name of His Father. In our (no others existing :)) world there is only one true healer and He is Yahweh and in our era in the name of Yeshua.

                    It does not matter if the miracles or healings now a days are made in the name of Mary, some other 'saints' or even Jesus they are condemned by Yahweh. All other names or sources of healing are not from Yahweh.


                    Of course people in Egypt were veeeeery pleased every time a plague deceased but they did not consider in their state of religious beliefs that the final and last, the utmost horrible miracle was yet to happen. -- And that was death, eternal death. While the Hebrews went out to serve their G-d the Yahweh. Do not count on miracles or miracel healings. They are none to assure that you have had an encounter with the only G-d, The Yahweh who has your eternal soul in His hands. He has given his orders in the Book of the Scriptures. Do not rely on any other Writings, holy or not. He will not perform miracles in any other names or through any saints who do not obey the Word of G-d - Yeshua, who said that He only does what His Father tells Him to do.
                    Comment>

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jackson View Post

                      I agree. There are things in Scripture you do not see. Tell me why Mary was so concerned about giving a huge amount of additional wine to people who had already become inebriated. It would have been a major social faux pas for the Governor of the Feast to have not provided enough wine, especially since it was such a common commodity. Mary went over the head of the Governor by taking it upon herself to get her next drink.

                      You know, When Mary visited Elizabeth, when John the Baptist was yet in her womb, Elizabeth "filled with the Holy Spirit" exclaimed
                      "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
                      As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.
                      Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord would fulfill his promises to her!"

                      Mary Replied ...

                      “My soul glorifies the Lord
                      and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
                      for he has been mindful
                      of the humble state of his servant.
                      From now on all generations will call me blessed,
                      for the Mighty One has done great things for me —
                      holy is his name.
                      His mercy extends to those who fear him,
                      from generation to generation.
                      He has performed mighty deeds with his arm;
                      he has scattered those who are proud in their inmost thoughts.
                      He has brought down rulers from their thrones
                      but has lifted up the humble.
                      He has filled the hungry with good things
                      but has sent the rich away empty.
                      He has helped his servant Israel,
                      remembering to be merciful
                      to Abraham and his descendants forever,
                      just as he promised our ancestors.”
                      Luke 1:46-55
                      You're on shaky ground when you denigrate a person, that was declared "Blessed .. among women" by someone filled with the Holy Spirit of God.
                      Mary herself responded, "From now on all generations will call me blessed..."

                      Not many generations of protestants call Mary Blessed among women. The posts above are in quite the opposite direction!. I understand the temptation ...
                      I get that people are trying to "set Catholics right" and prove to them that they should not worship or pray to Mary. But the disdain people feel for Catholics and Catholic doctrine often leads them to spouting, at the least, rude things about the mother of our Lord. I cannot image that this would please Jesus.

                      If you get to know Catholics, you will find that they are often loving people who have a heart that is open to learning more about the Truth of the Supremacy of Christ. But this is unlikely when you force them to put up a wall to protect beliefs that have often been ingrained from a young age.

                      If you attended a Catholic mass you will find that a very large amount of the New Testament and the old is read aloud over the liturgical year. In fact, much of the liturgy (the words the priest says) is doctrinally sound (except for the meaning of communion, the supremacy of the pope, the prayers directed to the saints).

                      A little love would go a long way, brothers.

                      For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
                      Romans 10:13
                      Comment>

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by slippy View Post
                        It does not matter if the miracles or healings now a days are made in the name of Mary, some other 'saints' or even Jesus they are condemned by Yahweh. All other names or sources of healing are not from Yahweh.
                        Perhaps you have not heard but Jesus is God. The N.T. makes it very clear.

                        Moreover, Jesus does not agree with you concerning the use his name.

                        “Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.” “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us. Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward. (Mark 9:38-41)
                        Comment>

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mackey View Post
                          I agree. There are things in Scripture you do not see. Tell me why Mary was so concerned about giving a huge amount of additional wine to people who had already become inebriated. It would have been a major social faux pas for the Governor of the Feast to have not provided enough wine, especially since it was such a common commodity. Mary went over the head of the Governor by taking it upon herself to get her next drink.




                          You know, When Mary visited Elizabeth, when John the Baptist was yet in her womb, Elizabeth "filled with the Holy Spirit" exclaimed
                          "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
                          As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.
                          Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord would fulfill his promises to her!"

                          Mary Replied ...



                          “My soul glorifies the Lord
                          and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
                          for he has been mindful
                          of the humble state of his servant.
                          From now on all generations will call me blessed,
                          for the Mighty One has done great things for me —
                          holy is his name.
                          His mercy extends to those who fear him,
                          from generation to generation.
                          He has performed mighty deeds with his arm;
                          he has scattered those who are proud in their inmost thoughts.
                          He has brought down rulers from their thrones
                          but has lifted up the humble.
                          He has filled the hungry with good things
                          but has sent the rich away empty.
                          He has helped his servant Israel,
                          remembering to be merciful
                          to Abraham and his descendants forever,
                          just as he promised our ancestors.”
                          <a class="rtBibleRef" href="http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Luke%201.46-55" data-reference="Luke 1.46-55" data-version="esv" data-purpose="bible-reference" target="_blank">Luke 1:46-55</a>


                          You're on shaky ground when you denigrate a person, that was declared "Blessed .. among women" by someone filled with the Holy Spirit of God.
                          Mary herself responded, "From now on all generations will call me blessed..."

                          Not many generations of protestants call Mary Blessed among women. The posts above are in quite the opposite direction!. I understand the temptation ...
                          I get that people are trying to "set Catholics right" and prove to them that they should not worship or pray to Mary. But the disdain people feel for Catholics and Catholic doctrine often leads them to spouting, at the least, rude things about the mother of our Lord. I cannot image that this would please Jesus.

                          If you get to know Catholics, you will find that they are often loving people who have a heart that is open to learning more about the Truth of the Supremacy of Christ. But this is unlikely when you force them to put up a wall to protect beliefs that have often been ingrained from a young age.

                          If you attended a Catholic mass you will find that a very large amount of the New Testament and the old is read aloud over the liturgical year. In fact, much of the liturgy (the words the priest says) is doctrinally sound (except for the meaning of communion, the supremacy of the pope, the prayers directed to the saints).

                          A little love would go a long way, brothers.

                          For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
                          <a class="rtBibleRef" href="http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Rom%2010.13" data-reference="Rom 10.13" data-version="esv" data-purpose="bible-reference" target="_blank">Romans 10:13</a>
                          Mackey this doesn't mean we should pray to her. In O.T. & N.T. it has been made clear that we should worship the Lord( Yahweh Elohim) and his only begotten son Jesus Christ only but not to his mother. It's like imparting rituals from pagan sources like worshipping mother of god. Moreover, I believe Mary is blessed but she's not god to whom we should pray or worship or bow down.
                          Originally posted by thereselittleflower View Post
                          Jackson, my daughter recently sprained her ankle very badly - a high ankle sprain, and after over 2 weeks she could put no weight on it at all. To do so caused her intense pain.

                          I was concerned for her and for her job. She left to go to a football/pizza night at a friends and stayed overnight, hobbling on crutches with an airboot on her foot.

                          I prayed for her by asking Mary to pray for my daughter.

                          The next day my daughter walked into the house in her regular shoes walking perfectly normally and without pain.

                          When I asked her what happened, she told me they were at the store, and one moment she wasn't able to put weight on it, and suddenly the next moment she could and had been walking normally every since. This happened right around the time I asked Mary to pray for her.

                          Even though I find prayers are answered very powerfully when I ask Mary to pray from some need, my jaw still dropped when I saw her walking into the house normally on both feet unaided and without pain.
                          It's clear in N.T. that many will come who will show false miracles. It can be a miracle of Father of lies. Please make the Bible your authority not any church or any other stuff.
                          Comment>

                          • #14
                            Originally posted by motirattan View Post
                            Mackey this doesn't mean we should pray to her. In O.T. & N.T. it has been made clear that we should worship the Lord( Yahweh Elohim) and his only begotten son Jesus Christ only but not to his mother. It's like imparting rituals from pagan sources like worshipping mother of god. Moreover, I believe Mary is blessed but she's not god to whom we should pray or worship or bow down.

                            Of course! You are absolutely correct! I never meant to suggest that we should pray to Mary. You are absolutely right and scripture backs you up completely.

                            Just for one example, Paul when beginning of Colossians shares how he prays for the believers:


                            We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, because we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love you have for all God’s people
                            Colossians1:3-4


                            Originally posted by motirattan View Post
                            It's clear in N.T. that many will come who will show false miracles. It can be a miracle of Father of lies. Please make the Bible your authority not any church or any other stuff.
                            This is so on point!
                            Satan is loosed on this earth. Catholics and all who call on the name of the Lord must know that the evil one could afflict a person, then release them when they did his bidding.


                            False christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect
                            Matthew 24:24


                            Getting a "cure" or an answer to your prayer (to some other entity other than the Father) is not a sign that should lead you away from the truth.


                            The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth
                            2 Thessalonians 2:9-10

                            My main point is that if you know someone who has been led astray, we should gently bring them to the truth... in love.

                            If we get it right doctrinally, and can eloquently expound on the scriptures about the truth, and can bury those who disagree with us, but don't show love and compassion, we are nothing, we gain nothing and are no better than a banging gong!

                            If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

                            Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

                            Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

                            And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

                            1 Corinthians 1-13


                            Sorry to go on and on with the scripture quotes ... but really, this is were we need to be.

                            Thank God for all of you,
                            Mackey
                            Comment>

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mackey View Post
                              My main point is that if you know someone who has been led astray, we should gently bring them to the truth... in love.

                              If we get it right doctrinally, and can eloquently expound on the scriptures about the truth, and can bury those who disagree with us, but don't show love and compassion, we are nothing, we gain nothing and are no better than a banging gong!

                              If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

                              Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

                              Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

                              And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

                              1 Corinthians 1-13


                              Sorry to go on and on with the scripture quotes ... but really, this is were we need to be.
                              Yep, Mackey I agree with you. I don't say all Catholics are on the wrong way. In my locality, there are some people who follow Hinduism but bend its commandments so on & on that they astray from the truth. By telling this I don't say Hindu belief is false but trying to say Catholic Church has bended the teachings so on & on that they astray from reality. But love is above all and our battle is not with humans or other plants, animals or birds but with demonic powers of deception possessed by Satan and his army( Ephesians 6:12) therefore we should save them those who are in darkness with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ which was given to us not because we deserve but due to sacrifice of our Lord. We should use this power and showing them the love of God which has saved us and will also save them with grace not by obeying the law or doing any ritual.
                              Comment>
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