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Mary, Mother of Christ and Mother of Christians

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  • Mary, Mother of Christ and Mother of Christians

    The Second Reading from today’s “Office of Readings” for the Saurday memorial of the Blessed Virgin Mary is from the sermons of Blessed Abbot Guerric (1070/80 – 1157)

    Mary, Mother of Christ and Mother of Christians
    Mary bore only one Son. In heaven, he is the only-begotten of the Father; on earth, likewise, he is the only-begotten of his Mother. She who is the only Virgin-Mother, she who glories in having borne the only-begotten of the Father, embraces that same only-begotten of hers in all his members so she can truly be called mother of all in whom she sees that Christ her Son has been formed or is being formed.

    The first Eve is not so much a mother as a stepmother since she handed on to her children an inheritance of certain death rather than the beginning of light. She is indeed called the mother of all the living, but she turned out to be more precisely the murderer of the living, or mother of the dead, since the only fruit of her child-bearing was death. And as Eve was incapable of fulfilling the vocation of her title, Mary consummated the mystery. She herself, like the Church of which she is the type, is a mother of all who are reborn to life.

    She is in fact the mother of the Life by which everyone lives, and when she brought it forth from herself she in some way brought to rebirth all those who were to live by that Life.
    Thus the blessed Mother of Christ, knowing that she is the mother of all Christians by reason of this mystery, shows herself a mother by her care and loving attention. For her heart is not hardened against these children as if they were not her own; her womb carried a child once only, yet it remains ever fruitful, never ceasing to bring forth the fruits of her motherly compassion.

    In short, if the Servant of Christ by his care and heartfelt tenderness bears his little children again and again until Christ be formed in them, how much more is this true of the very Mother of Christ? Paul begot his children by preaching the word of truth through which they were born again; but Mary in a manner far more holy and like to God, by giving birth to the Word himself. I do indeed praise the ministry of preaching in Paul, but far more do I admire and venerate that mystery of generation in Mary. Then again, is it not true that her children seem to recognise her as their Mother by a kind of instinctive devotion which faith gives them as second nature, so that first and foremost in all their needs and dangers they run to call upon her name just as children run to their mother’s breast? So I think it is quite reasonable to understand of these children that promise of the Prophet to her: ‘Your children shall live in you’; provided that the prophecy is always understood to refer principally to the Church. Already we really dwell in the help of the Mother of the Most High; we do live in her protection, as if under the shadow of her wing. And afterwards in participating in her glory we shall be cherished as if in her bosom. Then a single cry of rejoicing and thanksgiving will be heard addressed to this Mother: ‘The dwelling place of all of us who rejoice and are glad is in you, holy Mother of God.’

  • #2
    How do Catholics reconcile Mary being "our mother" with Paul saying the church is our mother? (Paul says the Jerusalem above is our mother, which is easily equated with the church).
    Comment>

    • #3
      Originally posted by Cornelius View Post
      How do Catholics reconcile Mary being "our mother" with Paul saying the church is our mother? (Paul says the Jerusalem above is our mother, which is easily equated with the church).
      [FONT=trebuchet ms][SIZE=14px]Since Mary is the mother of the Lord Jesus Christ and Christians are the body of the Lord Jesus Christ it follows that Mary is the Mother of Christians and Christians are the Church of the living God.[/SIZE][/FONT]
      Comment>

      • #4
        "...but I did not see any other of the apostles, except James, the Lord's brother." Galatians 1:19

        55 "Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?" Matthew 13:55

        There's James once again mentioned as being Jesus' kinsman brother.
        Comment>

        • #5

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          Comment>

          • #6
            GINOLJC, to Bede,
            Originally posted by Bede View Post
            Mary bore only one Son. In heaven, he is the only-begotten of the Father; on earth, likewise, he is the only-begotten of his Mother. She who is the only Virgin-Mother, she who glories in having borne the only-begotten of the Father, embraces that same only-begotten of hers in all his members so she can truly be called mother of all in whom she sees that Christ her Son has been formed or is being formed.
            not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this. Mary is only the surrogate mother of our Lord and saviour body. she only bore the body that our Lord came in. the Lord Jesus did not emanate from May. let me say this again, "the Lord Jesus did not emanate from May". she is not his biological MOTHER at all, only the birth, or .surrogate mother. what was be-gotten in Mary was not of any human doing at all. the Holy Spirit conceived in her the body that was already prepared. supportive scriptures, Luke 1:35, (son of God is the flesh that was born). it was prepared before it was conceived, see Hebrews 10:5
            May God bless.
            Comment>

            • #7
              Splitting Mary's motherhood into parts essentially splits Christ's nature, which is a heresy (Nestorianism) that was condemned by the Christian church in the 5th century AD, a full 1000 years before the Reformation (and even Martin Luther refered to Mary as the Mother of God).

              Further, a mother is one who bears life. Traditionally speaking, and not in terms of our modern emphasis on genetics, the father provides the seed and the mother gives herself for its nurture and growth. It's difficult to argue that Mary did not do that much.

              This video provides probably the best Scriptural reflection on Mary that I've come across.




              Comment>

              • #8
                It’s even worse than Nestorianism. It’s the “celestial flesh” heresy, the teaching of a second century Gnostic called Valentinus who taught that Jesus’ body was formed in heaven and passed through Mary "as water through a pipe".

                The doctrine means that Jesus is not of the same humanity as us and therefore could not redeem our fallen humanity.

                The doctrine contradicts Heb 2:14:
                “Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same nature, that through death he might destroy him who has the power of death, that is, the devil”

                It contradicts Rom 9:5:
                “to them [the Isaraelites] belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ.”

                It contradicts Rom 1:3:
                “the gospel concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh”

                It contradicts Gal 3:16
                “Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his descendant. It does not say, “And to descendants,” as referring to many, but as referring to one, “And to your descendant,” who is Christ.”

                It contradicts Gn 3:15
                “I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed”
                Comment>

                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bede View Post
                  The doctrine means that Jesus is not of the same humanity as us and therefore could not redeem our fallen humanity.
                  #1. our Lord and God TOOK on, and was not a PARTAKER of flesh and blood. please understand the difference between "TOOK PART", and "PARTAKER". that may help clear up some of the misunderstanding.
                  Comment>

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by G101 View Post
                    #1. our Lord and God TOOK on, and was not a PARTAKER of flesh and blood. please understand the difference between "TOOK PART", and "PARTAKER". that may help clear up some of the misunderstanding.
                    Heb 2:14 says otherwise.

                    If Jesus was a new creation then he was not a descendant of David, he was not a descendant of Abraham, he was not an Israelite and he was not the promised seed promised in Gen 3:15

                    You doctrine contradicts scripture.
                    Comment>

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bede View Post

                      Heb 2:14 says otherwise.

                      If Jesus was a new creation then he was not a descendant od David, he was not a descendant of Abraham, he was not an Israelite and he was not the promised seed promised in Gen 3:15

                      You doctrine contradicts scripture.
                      Amen.

                      Comment>

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bede View Post
                        If Jesus was a new creation then he was not a descendant of David, he was not a descendant of Abraham, he was not an Israelite and he was not the promised seed promised in Gen 3:15
                        you misunderstood me. see being "BORN" into this world gives our Lord the LEGAL right to the throne. understand, if a couple from India came to America, (and the wife was, lets say 7 month due) while here gave birth would not the child have American citizenry, as well as India?. so it's not about NATIONALLY, or RACE, but by the fact of being BORN.
                        Comment>

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bede View Post
                          If Jesus was a new creation
                          now speaking of the new creation, yes our Lord is the Source of all new creation. for he is the last Adam. 2Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
                          Comment>

                          • #14
                            Originally posted by G101 View Post
                            you misunderstood me. see being "BORN" into this world gives our Lord the LEGAL right to the throne. understand, if a couple from India came to America, (and the wife was, lets say 7 month due) while here gave birth would not the child have American citizenry, as well as India?. so it's not about NATIONALLY, or RACE , but by the fact of being BORN.
                            It's about being a descendant according to the flesh.

                            “The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.” (Mt 1:1)



                            Comment>

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bede View Post
                              The Second Reading from today’s “Office of Readings” for the Saurday memorial of the Blessed Virgin Mary is from the sermons of Blessed Abbot Guerric (1070/80 – 1157)

                              Mary, Mother of Christ and Mother of Christians
                              Mary bore only one Son. In heaven, he is the only-begotten of the Father; on earth, likewise, he is the only-begotten of his Mother. She who is the only Virgin-Mother, she who glories in having borne the only-begotten of the Father, embraces that same only-begotten of hers in all his members so she can truly be called mother of all in whom she sees that Christ her Son has been formed or is being formed.

                              The first Eve is not so much a mother as a stepmother since she handed on to her children an inheritance of certain death rather than the beginning of light. She is indeed called the mother of all the living, but she turned out to be more precisely the murderer of the living, or mother of the dead, since the only fruit of her child-bearing was death. And as Eve was incapable of fulfilling the vocation of her title, Mary consummated the mystery. She herself, like the Church of which she is the type, is a mother of all who are reborn to life.

                              She is in fact the mother of the Life by which everyone lives, and when she brought it forth from herself she in some way brought to rebirth all those who were to live by that Life.
                              Thus the blessed Mother of Christ, knowing that she is the mother of all Christians by reason of this mystery, shows herself a mother by her care and loving attention. For her heart is not hardened against these children as if they were not her own; her womb carried a child once only, yet it remains ever fruitful, never ceasing to bring forth the fruits of her motherly compassion.

                              In short, if the Servant of Christ by his care and heartfelt tenderness bears his little children again and again until Christ be formed in them, how much more is this true of the very Mother of Christ? Paul begot his children by preaching the word of truth through which they were born again; but Mary in a manner far more holy and like to God, by giving birth to the Word himself. I do indeed praise the ministry of preaching in Paul, but far more do I admire and venerate that mystery of generation in Mary. Then again, is it not true that her children seem to recognise her as their Mother by a kind of instinctive devotion which faith gives them as second nature, so that first and foremost in all their needs and dangers they run to call upon her name just as children run to their mother’s breast? So I think it is quite reasonable to understand of these children that promise of the Prophet to her: ‘Your children shall live in you’; provided that the prophecy is always understood to refer principally to the Church. Already we really dwell in the help of the Mother of the Most High; we do live in her protection, as if under the shadow of her wing. And afterwards in participating in her glory we shall be cherished as if in her bosom. Then a single cry of rejoicing and thanksgiving will be heard addressed to this Mother: ‘The dwelling place of all of us who rejoice and are glad is in you, holy Mother of God.’

                              Where's the scripture stating that Mary is our mother? Literal, factual, actual evidence? And not a verse that I've seen referenced multiple times in your arguments to why Mary is our 'mother' in which it is easily contradicted.
                              Comment>
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