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Purgatory

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  • Purgatory

    There are many misunderstandings about the Catholic doctrine of Purgatory. It is not, for example, a second chance to repent and accept Christ.
    “1021 Death puts an end to human life as the time open to either accepting or rejecting the divine grace manifested in Christ.” (Catechism of The Catholic Church)

    So what is Catholic belief?
    “All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.” (CCC 1030).

    The basic argument for Purgatory is as follows:

    1. God is holy and perfect, and He tells us to be holy and perfect as he is holy and perfect.
    “…but as he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in all your conduct; since it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy." (1Pet 1:15-16)
    “You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” (Mt 5:48)

    2. Unless we are clean (holy and perfect) we will not enter heaven for a life of communion with God.
    “But nothing unclean will enter it” [The new Jerusalem – Heaven] (Rev 21:27)

    3. Unless we are holy we will not see God.
    “Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord” (Heb 12;14)

    4. When we are initially justified (I believe by baptism) God makes us holy and perfect.
    “When the goodness and loving kindness of God our Saviour appeared, he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, which he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Saviour, so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life.” (Ti 3:4-7)

    5. But during our life we sin which disfigures and soils our souls and from which we need cleansing to restore us the holiness and perfection necessary to enter heaven. This is an ongoing process of sin, repentance, and cleansing.
    “Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, and make holiness perfect in the fear of God.” (2Cor 7:1)

    6. If we are not wholly clean, holy and perfect there must be some process whereby we can be cleansed and made holy and perfect. Scripture tells us there is:
    But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect” (Heb 12:22-23)
    This shows that there is a way, a process, whereby the spirits of just men are made perfect.

    God in his mercy has provided a final purification process whereby we are made fit to enter his presence.

    Catholics call this process Purgatory
    “The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.” (CCC 1031)

    Purgatory
    “early 13c., from M.L. purgatorium (St. Bernard, early 12c.), from L.L., "means of cleansing," prop. neut. of purgatorius (adj.) "purging, cleansing," from L. purgare (see purge).”
    (Online Etymology Dictionary)

    Many Protestants call this process Glorification.
    Glorification is the Protestant alternative to purgatory, as it is "the means by which the elect receive perfection before entering into the kingdom of Heaven…….…. The majority of Protestant denominations believe in this form of glorification, although some have alternative names.”
    (askdefine.com)

    In the quotes below the emboldening is mine.

    “Glorification involves first of all the believer's sanctification or moral perfection (2 Thessalonians 2:13-14; Hebrews 2:10-11 ), in which the believer will be made glorious, holy, and blameless (Ephesians 5:27 ). The process of sanctification is at work in us now (2 Corinthians 3:18 ) but moves from one degree of glory to another until it reaches final glory.”
    (Bakers Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Terms)

    “Glorification marks the completion of Christ's work of redemption as the believer stands before God having been awakened from sin's deadly slumber, having been given a new heart and having been purified completely in soul and body.”
    ( Dr. James E. Bordwine – Westminster Presbyterian Church)

    NOTE: There are many more arguments and scripture relating to Purgatory but I’ll pause here for any comments.
    Last edited by Bede; 06-29-2015, 03:47 AM.

  • #2
    You hold the position that there is a period after this life where the saved are purified. We accept only the pure can enter Heaven. We accept that God sanctifies us. What's missing from your post is evidence that this sanctification takes places after death. You verses supporting sanctification speak of within this life.

    I hold that our sanctification process is completed when we are separated from the flesh, i.e. when we die. For the flesh is weak.
    Comment>

    • #3
      Originally posted by Cornelius View Post
      You hold the position that there is a period after this life where the saved are purified. We accept only the pure can enter Heaven. We accept that God sanctifies us. What's missing from your post is evidence that this sanctification takes places after death. You verses supporting sanctification speak of within this life.

      I hold that our sanctification process is completed when we are separated from the flesh, i.e. when we die. For the flesh is weak.
      That sounds like a form of dualism where we have a pure and holy soul trapped in the weak fleshly body.

      Paul prays “May the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1Thess 5:23).
      What if, when we die, we are not sanctified wholly, and our spirit, soul and body are not sound and blameless when we die?

      “Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord” (Heb 12:14)
      What if, when we die, we do not fully have “the holiness without which no one will see the Lord”?

      “Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, and make holiness perfect in the fear of God.” (2Cor 7:1)
      What is, when we die, we have not cleaned ourselves from every defilement and made holiness perfect?

      Scripture tells us we will be made perfect.
      But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect” (Heb 12:22-23)
      This shows that there is a way, a process, whereby the spirits of just men are made perfect.

      Comment>

      • #4
        Originally posted by Cornelius View Post
        You hold the position that there is a period after this life where the saved are purified. We accept only the pure can enter Heaven. We accept that God sanctifies us. What's missing from your post is evidence that this sanctification takes places after death. You verses supporting sanctification speak of within this life.

        I hold that our sanctification process is completed when we are separated from the flesh, i.e. when we die. For the flesh is weak.
        [FONT=trebuchet ms][SIZE=16px]Interesting assertions you make. Exactly how and when does God make you perfect?[/SIZE][/FONT]
        Comment>

        • #5
          The clearest Scripture regarding Purgatory in terms of number is Daniel 8:14.

          There is an exact number of days for cleansing set at 2,300.

          We don't normally think in terms of base 2,300, but that verse shows a focus upon the cleansing of the Temple (of the Holy Spirit) to be of that duration whether one is asleep or alive.

          There is a teaching from the Medjugorje visitation through the Blessed Virgin that the "survivors" of 1 Thess. 4:17 will (must) undergo this cleansing which is occurring now, since January 10, 2010 A.D.

          On the other extreme are those born into the world during this final cleansing, and they must be of the General Resurrection of the Dead.
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          • #6
            [SIZE=16px][FONT=trebuchet ms]1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

            The passage suggests that the Lord returns and then the faithful who have died are raised from their graves in a bodily resurrection and following that the living are changed and meet the Lord with the faithful - who have been raised - in the air. I don't see this happening over a span of 2,300 days, do you?[/FONT][/SIZE]
            Last edited by peppermint; 06-30-2015, 02:25 AM.
            Comment>

            • #7
              That's what I meant by saying that we normally don't think in terms of base 2,300.

              We are taught base 10 and what that means.

              Any further interpolation is taught as a function of the counting process.

              Just as a thousand years for us is as a day for the Lord (Psalm 90:4), so do we get an inkling of the finality of Baptism in Daniel 8:14.

              When one thinks in terms of the formal process of Canonization to Sainthood, such prophecy makes light the Vicar of Christ's work, if all else should fail.

              When one remembers that after Christ had raised Lazarus, both were sought to be put to death.

              This is an inkling of the long-suffering Lord through the Resurrection, that there would be difficulty, "woe to them who will be child" (Matt. 24:19).

              This is also seen in the 24th quatrain of Book VII of the prophecy of Nostradamus, viz., "When he who was buried comes out of the tomb, he shall make the strong one out of the bridge to be bound with chains".

              That coming out of the tomb was through a third womb, the second womb being that of St. Elizabeth, in the life of Elijah (cf. 1 Kings 17).

              It is in such realization that one can see how glorious a creature woman is.

              But the "bridge to be bound with chains" is the Resurrection, the General Resurrection of the Dead.

              It is bad enough that one be dragged into court before the Resurrection, and worse during.

              Before I was raised from the dead (changed), I experienced a purgatory of ca. 1,925 years, yet God has kept me with Him in His tomb for only three days.

              Yet all this can be seen as an eternal process.

              Purgatory really does exist.
              Comment>

              • #8
                [FONT=trebuchet ms][SIZE=16px]Base 2,300? That would make 2,300 (base 10) = 10 (base 2,300) but what does that achieve? The idea in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is of the return of Christ coinciding with the resurrection of the dead and the glorification of the living faithful.[/SIZE][/FONT]
                Comment>

                • #9
                  Let's move on in this study of Purgatory.

                  Sanctification – becoming Holy
                  Purgatory is about becoming holy. Catholics call this Sanctification but Protestants use Sanctification differently. It is about the secondary consequences of sin not the primary consequence of sin. The primary consequence of sin is a rupture (partial or total) of communion with God. It is the healing of that rupture that Jesus atoned for on the cross.

                  We are born into a sinful condition.
                  “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.” (Psalm 51:5).

                  During our lives we pile sin upon sin.
                  “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” (1Jn 1:8).

                  Or as St. Paul put it
                  “Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I of myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.” (Rom 7:25)

                  Unless we do something about them the consequences of sin accumulate and we are told that nothing unclean may enter heaven (Rev 21:27).

                  We are urged to become pure and holy, without blemish
                  “But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace.” (2Pet 3:13-14)

                  “Beloved, we are God's children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. And every one who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.” (1Jn 3:2-3)

                  We need to be cleansed or purged from the consequences of sin that affect us so that we may be fit to enter the presence of God.

                  Perfecting Love
                  Love never ends says St. Paul (1 Cor 13:8). In heaven what else will there be. “So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.. (1 Cor 13:13), and in heaven there will be no need of faith for we will be in the presence of God; there will be no need for hope because we will have attained all that we hoped for.

                  All that we will need is perfect love, and indeed nothing else. All else besides love, that which detracts from love, that is less than love must be left behind. There can be no anger, hate, lust, greed, jealousy, pride, covetousness, or any such thing. It is not enough to “cover up” such things, they must be expunged.

                  As Paul says:Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamour and slander be put away from you, with all malice” (Eph 4:31).

                  This can appear as punishment but it would be better to regard it as God’s discipline.

                  “It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers to discipline us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time at their pleasure, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant; later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.” (Heb 12:7-11).

                  “Having been disciplined a little, they will receive great good, because God tested them and found them worthy of himself; like gold in the furnace he tried them, and like a sacrificial burnt offering he accepted them.” (Wis 3:5-6)

                  Purgatory is seen as a purification process where the disorders in us caused by sin are healed, where the lingering attachments to sin, such as pride, anger lust etc., and “bad attitudes” are cleared out, so that we can be pure and holy and fit to be in the presence of God. It is God’s mercy to allow us to be purified before we enter his presence, as we could not bear to be in his presence unless we are pure and holy.

                  “Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, and make holiness perfect in the fear of God.” (2Cor 7:1)

                  Purgatory is God’s mercy, because without it we could not achieve the holiness necessary to enter heaven - the holiness without which no one will see the Lord” - at least most of us couldn’t

                  Attachments
                  Jesus dealt with the punishment for sin due to our offence against God. But when we sin we also damage ourselves because we fall into patterns of sin.

                  Each time we sin we turn away from God towards something in creation, something that we put before God. We can see this in the story of the rich young man in Mt 19:16-23. He was a good man, he kept the commandments, but he was too attracted by his money and his material possessions. When Jesus called him he turned away because he could not part from them.

                  There is also a further point in this incident. I think it is worth quoting it in full.

                  16 And behold, one came up to him, saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?"
                  17 And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."
                  18 He said to him, "Which?" And Jesus said, "You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness,
                  19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
                  20 The young man said to him, "All these I have observed; what do I still lack?"
                  21 Jesus said to him, "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."
                  22 When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions.
                  23 And Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

                  In verse 16 he asks what is necessary to have eternal life – i.e. to be saved.
                  Jesus responds (verse 17-19) that he must keep the commandments – i.e. not sin.
                  The young man says he has done all this and asks what else (verse 20) and Jesus says (verse 21) that if he wishes to be perfect he should sell his possessions and give them to the poor. This is not about not sinning, but about becoming holy and perfect.
                  The young man could not bring himself to do this and turns away (verse 22)
                  Now Jesus comments that it will be hard for him to enter heaven (verse 23). He does not say he will not be able to and that he will go to hell because he is good and keeps the commandments, but that it will be hard. It will be hard because he has to become holy and perfect before he can enter heaven and the young man cannot bring himself to give up his attachments to his wealth. The young man is destined for heaven but Jesus is indicating that he will have to become perfect by being purified of his attachments to wealth. If he does not manage it on earth the only option left is in some intermediate state between death and entry into heaven. This is purgatory.

                  The key to this is repentance. This is what John the Baptist called for (Mt 3:3), what Jesus called for (Mt 4:17) and what Peter called for (Acts 2:38). Now repentance means turning back from the created things that attract us and back to God – 100%.

                  “[Jesus Christ] who gave himself for us to redeem us from all iniquity and to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good deeds.” (Ti 2:14)

                  This purification is being made holy. It is a work of God, not our work. But we have to co-operate with God and do what we can to assist the process. It is not a passive thing. We can do this now in this part of our life, or we can do it after death in purgatory. But we must be fully holy before we can enter heaven.

                  Any comments so far before I move on? (yes there is more to come!)
                  Last edited by Bede; 06-30-2015, 07:06 AM.
                  Comment>

                  • #10
                    The Son believes and hopes in the Father, that is how we are still here.
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                    • #11
                      In the absence of responses to my posts so far let me press on.

                      Cleansing Fire
                      "The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. ….. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire." (Catechism of the Catholic Church 1031)

                      Scripture speaks of going through fire:
                      “thou didst let men ride over our heads; we went through fire [i.e. purgatory] and through water [i.e. baptism]; yet thou hast brought us forth to a spacious place.[ i.e. heaven]”. (Psalm 66:12)

                      “when the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains of Jerusalem from its midst by a spirit of judgment and by a spirit of burning [purgatory].” (Isaiah 4,4)

                      1Cor 3:10-17 is an important passage
                      10 “According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and another man is building upon it. Let each man take care how he builds upon it.”
                      11 “For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.”
                      12 “Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw—“
                      13 “each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.”
                      14 “If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.”
                      15 “If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.”
                      16 “Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you?”
                      17 “If any one destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and that temple you are.”

                      In verses 10-13 Paul says that when we die our work will be judged. That work is both our good works and our bad works (sins) and that there will be reward or punishment according to these works.
                      Verse 14 is someone whose work stands. These are the good works, and those with only good works will go straight to heaven.
                      Verse 15 is someone whose works are burnt up (because they are bad) but the person themselves will be saved. The bad works (sins) were not serious enough to cut themselves off from God.
                      Verses 16-17 describe someone whose works are so bad that they have destroyed the temple where God dwells (their souls) and cut themselves off from God. God will destroy the person.

                      Now consider the second case (vs 15)

                      Someone can suffer loss as though fire but still be saved. There is something other than heaven or hell through which we can pass which will purify us (burn out our sins).


                      There are other texts that speak of this purifying fire:
                      “But who can endure the day of his coming, and who can stand when he appears? "For he is like a refiner's fire and like fullers' soap.” (Mal 3:2-3)

                      “In this you rejoice, though now for a little while you may have to suffer various trials, so that the genuineness of your faith, more precious than gold which though perishable is tested by fire, may redound to praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.” (1Pet 1:6-7)

                      Other points:
                      There is some punishment remaining after sins have been forgiven
                      David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." And Nathan said to David, "The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die. Nevertheless, because by this deed you have utterly scorned the Lord, the child that is born to you shall die." Then Nathan went to his house. And the Lord struck the child that Uriah's wife bore to David, and it became sick. David therefore besought God for the child; and David fasted, and went in and lay all night upon the ground. And the elders of his house stood beside him, to raise him from the ground; but he would not, nor did he eat food with them. On the seventh day the child died." (2 Sam 12:13-18)
                      God forgave David’s sin but even after he was forgiven there was still punishment for his sin.

                      There is forgiveness of sin after death.
                      “And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.” (Mt 12:32)
                      It implies there is forgiveness in the age to come.”
                      What is this age to come where we can be forgiven sin? Heaven, Hell – or somewhere else?

                      We must be fully righteous before we are fit for heaven.
                      “but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1Jn 1:7-9)
                      If we are not fully righteous when we die then there is a final purification before we are fit to enter heaven. This is what Jesus won for us by the shedding of his blood.

                      Jewish beliefs - Jews believe in a purgatorial process
                      “According to Judaism, the purifying process that a sullied soul undergoes to cleanse it from its spiritual uncleanliness is a temporary one, and is restorative in its intent, and not punitive, as many mistakenly believe. Ultimately, all Jews have portion in the World to Come, as do Righteous Gentiles, non-Jews who observe the Seven Noahide Commandments.” (see this link Is there any sort of Purgatory or Satan in Jewish teachings? - Questions & Answers)

                      Orthodox Jewish practices, which branched off from the Old Testament religion, to this day reflect belief in this "place" of final purification which they call Gehenom: when an Orthodox Jewish person dies, a ritual called the taharah is performed by the "Chevra kaddisha -- gmilat khessed shel emet," the "Holy Society" or "Burial Society" of Jews knowledgeable in these traditional duties. They cleanse and prepare the physical body and recite the required prayers (Chevra Kadisha) which ask God for forgiveness for any sins the departed may have committed, and beg Him to guard and grant eternal peace to the departed. For eleven months after the death of a loved one certain members of the family pray a prayer called the Mourner's Qaddish (or Kaddish) for their loved one's purification.

                      Even the The Talmud1 speaks of Purgatory: Sabbath 33b:
                      "The judgment of the wicked in purgatory is twelve months."
                      Rosh HaShanah 16b-17a:
                      "It has been taught that the school of Shammai says: "There will be three groups on Judgment Day (yom haDin):
                      (1) one that is completely righteous,
                      (2) one that is completely wicked,
                      (3) and one that is in between."

                      Rabbi Shammai (50 BC - AD 30), one of the two main teachers of early rabbinical Judaism, also is on record as having interpreted Zechariah 13:9 as referring to a state of purification after death. Isaiah 66:15-16 and Malachi 3:2-3 were also interpreted in rabbinic literature as referring to the purgatorial process.

                      And of course 2 Macc. 12:44-45 is about atoning for the sins of the dead. Catholics consider this scripture. But even if you do not it demonstrates Jewish beliefs.

                      And Sirach 7:33 "Give graciously to all the living, and withhold not kindness from the dead". What kindness could we withold from the dead? The answer is the kindness of praying for them.

                      More scriptural points supporting Purgatory:

                      Point 1
                      “And the Lord said, "Who then is the faithful and wise steward, whom his master will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the proper time? Blessed is that servant whom his master when he comes will find so doing. Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions. But if that servant says to himself, 'My master is delayed in coming,' and begins to beat the menservants and the maidservants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will punish him, and put him with the unfaithful. And that servant who knew his master's will, but did not make ready or act according to his will, shall receive a severe beating. But he who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, shall receive a light beating.” (Lk 12:42-48)

                      Where will some be beaten heavily and some lightly when Jesus returns? Not heaven because we aren’t beaten there. Not hell because the Master won’t be in hell.

                      Point 2 We must be fully holy and righteousness to be in the presence of God.
                      "O Lord, who shall sojourn in thy tent? Who shall dwell on thy holy hill?
                      He who walks blamelessly, and does what is right, and speaks truth from his heart;
                      who does not slander with his tongue, and does no evil to his friend,
                      nor takes up a reproach against his neighbour; in whose eyes a reprobate is despised, but who honours those who fear the Lord;
                      who swears to his own hurt and does not change; who does not put out his money at interest, and does not take a bribe against the innocent.
                      He who does these things shall never be moved." (Ps 15)
                      We must be fully holy and righteousness to be in the presence of God.

                      Point 4
                      Take Jesus’ parable of the man who owed a huge debt (Mt 18:23-34). At the end he says: “And in anger his lord delivered him to the jailers, till he should pay all his debt”

                      There is an implication that when the debt was paid he would be released. Now where was the man until he paid the debt? Not in Hell because you cannot get out of there. Not in heaven because there are no torturers in heaven. This is taken as a parable about forgiveness, but also about Purgatory.:

                      As you can see from this there is abundant support in scripture for the concept of Purgatory.





                      Comment>

                      • #12
                        Purgatory is quite the opposite of agnosticism.
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