Faith discussions: improve your walk with the Lord, build up your prayer life, grow in your faith, love others in your church, and other general faith type discussions.

The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath

    I agree with seventh day worshippers (adventist and baptists) that the true sabbath is the seventh day, Saturday. When jesus and the apostles were caught gathering and hulking corn on the sabbath He made the statement that the sabbath was made for man.

    With the sabbath in the bible I can find the main emphasis being on the sabbath being a day of rest. Mana not falling on the sabbath but a double portion on the day before. Jesus not allowing people to carry jugs of water in the temple on the sabbath.

    I believe the devil thought he got one over on God when he influenced man to change the day of rest from Saturday to Sunday.

    Of course, now we usually don't work on both Saturday or Sunday so we get two days of rest! Take that, Satan!

  • #2
    I've been to Seventh day Adventist churches and to my dismay all they ever preach is the Sabbath, how it's what sets apart the "true church" from the all the other apostate churches and that sort of thing. Christianity is supposed to be a way of life. Keeping the sabbath or attempting to and neglecting everything else won't get anyone to heaven. Love God, obey Jesus commandments and love your neighbor. Anyone who does that is a child of God. Anyone who doesn't still has some way to go.
    Comment>

    • #3
      I agree, Smithee, and is one reason I don't normally go to a seventh day Adventist church because I already know the message I'm going to hear, I've heard it every time I've been there. I've never been to a seventh day Baptist church so I don't know about them, however, there is none close to me.
      Comment>

      • #4
        Originally posted by Smithee View Post
        I've been to Seventh day Adventist churches and to my dismay all they ever preach is the Sabbath, how it's what sets apart the "true church" from the all the other apostate churches and that sort of thing. Christianity is supposed to be a way of life. Keeping the sabbath or attempting to and neglecting everything else won't get anyone to heaven. Love God, obey Jesus commandments and love your neighbor. Anyone who does that is a child of God. Anyone who doesn't still has some way to go.
        As one ex-SDA told me "worship the Sabbath, keep the Jesus"

        As a former orthodox Jew I can say that SDA-ism is the weirdest idea I ever came across. In Judaism, the Sabbath is a covenant sign (it's in the book of Exodus), and Gentiles aren't in the Covenant. Therefore the 7th day will always be the Sabbath, but Gentiles are not bound to it anymore than they are bound to circumcision, teffilin, or tzitzis.

        ...and that's one reason I became a Lutheran. They got the Judaic understanding of the Law right. :-) Last time I told an SDA that, he lost his temper with me. It was hilarious.
        Comment>

        • #5
          In my mind there is a distinction between the 10 commandments which are written in stone, literally, and the mosaic law which I think of as ordinances.

          Even when Paul speaks about us not being under the law he says the law is now love God and love thy neighbor which jesus says the commandments are founded on. I read this as we are no longer under the mosaic ordinances but still under the 10 commandments.
          Comment>

          • #6
            Originally posted by Serpardum View Post
            In my mind there is a distinction between the 10 commandments which are written in stone, literally, and the mosaic law which I think of as ordinances.

            Even when Paul speaks about us not being under the law he says the law is now love God and love thy neighbor which jesus says the commandments are founded on. I read this as we are no longer under the mosaic ordinances but still under the 10 commandments.

            I generally view the Two Greatest Commandments as a summation of the Ten Commandments (Statutes, Ordinances and Decrees). And while the Law sends us to the Gospel to be Justified, the Gospel sends us back again to the Law to inquire what is our duty as Christians.

            But I think you're touching upon something important. Christianity is quite different than religion to a born again or regenerate believer. What others take as rules, ordinances, etc and/or works, the regenerate Christian does from a desire seated in the heart wishing to please God. A desire for God that was not there until being born from above.

            In some ways an analogy can be formed, your use of the Stone is removed from the Ten Commandments, and it is fleshed out in a heart put there in its stead. The Law shows us that we are rebellious, yet the heart of stone refuses to repent, to love God, or to please Him Romans 8:8. The Law demonstrates our Total inability or Depravity. That is, hearts of the natural man are so hardened that man cannot even seek God on their own Romans 3:11, and that’s why Jesus said "no one can come to Him unless the Father first draws him" John 6:44.

            In Ezekiel 36:25-27
            • 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you.
            • 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
            • 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

            God bless,
            William
            Comment>

            • #7
              There are actually 613 commandments given in the Old Testament. None were considered optional to those to whom they were given.

              Here's my spin on the whole law thing.

              There are moral laws which reflect the Divine nature- and each of these moral laws have both a positive and a negative application. Moral Law was given to Adam and Eve as well as Noah- indicating that the Moral Law applies to all of their descendants- all humanity.

              Additional Civil and Ceremonial laws were given to Abraham first and later to his descendants the people of Israel and those specific laws apply to them. However, each ceremonial or civil law has a moral aspect, both positive and negative- so all the laws of God are related in some manner. Therefore each of these laws has an outward aspect and an inward aspect. The inward, spiritual aspect is attached to the moral law and therefore that moral law will continue. The outward form of the ceremonial or civil law may change or be abrogated- but this outward aspect certainly never applied to those who they were not given to anyway.

              This is why Paul, following this Jewish understanding of the law, spoke against circumcision for the Gentiles- it was neither given to them nor needed for their spiritual benefit. The outward aspect of the removal of skin is unnecessary but the inward motive of faith and obedience lives on as a moral law. The Jerusalem Council agreed (Acts 15).

              The Ten Commandments summarize the commandments given to Israel, however, they are more than that as one can see they are mainly summaries of the moral law for all mankind in particular. Each ceremonial or civil law is connected to the Ten, although the way in which it is outwardly observed is not given. For example, the commandment against adultery does not mention how many wives or husbands one may have or at what age one should marry etc. Details for those outward applications are established in the other laws, even left at the discretion of the Sanhedrin (council of elders) in some cases. Obviously Gentiles not living in the Covenant between God and Israel alone nor living under Israel's civil rulers are not bound to them. However, they are bound to the commandment against adultery as it is moral law and even connected to Adam and Eve's commandment to procreate.

              Christ's Two greatest commandments summarize all 613, teaching their moral and eternal nature. (However Christ did not "invent" that summary either, it is derived from Rabbi Hillel around a century prior, as are the Beatitudes) Christ also understood the proper application of the law must be guided by love and grace. For example, when Christ's disciples clearly violated the Sabbath He reminded those against Him that it is permissible to violate the negative aspect of a law to fulfill a positive commandment. David, He said, ate the shewbread to survive, something clearly forbidden. Jesus also healed on the Sabbath, and in His defense He reminded those against Him that one is allowed to circumcise on the Sabbath, even though the Law forbids the shedding of blood on the Sabbath. So a positive commandment overrules a negative when they clash- usually with the caveat that human life is preserved in the case at hand.

              So, let's look at the Sabbath law. Clearly there is a moral application- that of having rest from labor to spend time with God. Then there is an outward, civil application- national rest on the seventh day (which is called a unique sign between God and Israel in Ex 31:12-17) However, the rest of the laws contain many different kinds of sabbaths. So the Sabbath has a moral aspect but the civil, national observance (Sabbath keeping) is unique to Israel as a covenant sign. Just like the Covenant sign for Abraham was circumcision and Gentiles are not required to do it, and baptism and Holy Communion are Covenant signs of the New Testament and unbelievers are not bound to them, so Sabbath keeping is not binding on Gentiles. The inward truth remains, but the outward observance is not prescribed for the nations (and Israel had to make specific rulings regarding its observance based on what was received from God). Rather, Christ has redeemed all days and times, so all are holy and any may be used for holy observances.

              When one approaches the commandments with this understanding the words of the NT make sense, and likewise how and why OT laws were applied or not. We can see why all the Sabbaths - and other commanded and compulsory festivals- are called "shadows". We can see why the Council of Jerusalem allowed unkosher food for the Gentile converts, we can see why circumcision was not obligatory nor given to Gentiles and why those who taught otherwise were anathematized. But we can also see why Paul circumcised Timothy, why he went to the Temple and made offerings (no better analogy of the relationship between Jewish and Gentile observances can be found than in Acts 21:17-26- and it can only make sense when the Law is seen in the way I have described). Simply put, pertaining to outward observances of the law Jews did Jewish things and Gentiles did Gentile things, but pertaining to the spiritual, moral, eternal law, all are bound to it and lived by it.

              To sever the Ten Commandments and superficially elevate them from their context brings more confusion that it claims to clear up. For example, clearly Dt 22:5 is a moral law, but it is not specifically mentioned in the Ten and clearly also has a clearly prescribed application. One who breaks this law has morally profaned God and has caused an abomination. However, the Sabbath Law, inscribed in stone, has many caveats that demonstrate it can legally be broken. Priests worked on the Sabbath, animals could be rescued, blood could be shed, lives can be saved and even food could be picked all on the Sabbath in certain circumstances. So clearly the Sabbath law is not of the same gravity as the law against cross-dressing. While this is a problem that dissolves for orthodox Christianity it is a problem for SDA's and others that leads to even more questions, locking them in a continuous game of theological whack-a-mole.
              Comment>
              Working...
              X
              Articles - News - SiteMap