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What I think Catholicism and all other sects of Christianity are?

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  • What I think Catholicism and all other sects of Christianity are?

    Since past 3-4 days, something different I came to understand. Since I became a believer, I strongly condemn Catholicism and its rituals like using Holy Water, blessed cloth, etc. But now my thinking somewhat changed. I now think that I'm on the right way. According to me, basic tenants of Christianity are same. Tradition was created to strengthen our faith. Mark 11:24 interprets that whatever we ask God in prayer and believe it has been added shall be added to us. Romans 14 is a great example. So I think that Catholic and all other sects are created so that a believer can encourage his/her faith in the way he/she is comfortable. But be observant that whatever you believe doesn't contradict the Bible which is our source of authority. Whatever we believe that will be done for us. For example if we believe by eating only vegetarian we are saved, that will only happen to us. So therefore whatever we do, we should do in faith but be observant of yourself and be ready to correct your brother and sister with the word if the stuff they're doing or believing contradict the Bible. At the end, the Bible should be our final authority but we should do what,what encouraged our faith in Lord. I wanna know, what other members of this forum think about this.

  • #2
    Originally posted by motirattan View Post
    According to me, basic tenants of Christianity are same.
    Unfortunately that is not true as We will see in a moment

    Originally posted by motirattan View Post
    But be observant that whatever you believe doesn't contradict the Bible which is our source of authority. ……... At the end, the Bible should be our final authority but we should do what,what encouraged our faith in Lord.
    The source of authority is one of the fundamental and crucial differences between Catholics* and Protestants


    * More accurately Catholics/Orthodox and Protestants.
    Protestants seem to keep all their criticisms to Catholics but the majority of their criticisms are equally applicable to the Orthodox (Authority, Eucharist, Atonement, Justification, Mary etc.)

    Comment>

    • #3
      Originally posted by Bede View Post
      * More accurately Catholics/Orthodox and Protestants.
      Protestants seem to keep all their criticisms to Catholics but the majority of their criticisms are equally applicable to the Orthodox (Authority, Eucharist, Atonement, Justification, Mary etc.)
      I think all these are a play of Satan to defile our unity. We are members of one body and one spirit. There should be no distinction between us. Each of us should keep our personal beliefs in private between you and God. Our source of authority should be Holy Spirit.
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      • #4
        Originally posted by motirattan View Post
        I think all these are a play of Satan to defile our unity. We are members of one body and one spirit.
        Yes, we are all part of one body.

        Originally posted by motirattan View Post
        There should be no distinction between us. Each of us should keep our personal beliefs in private between you and God.
        We are supposed to spread the gospel. How can we keep our beliefs private?

        Originally posted by motirattan View Post
        Our source of authority should be Holy Spirit.
        Jesus said: "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.” (Mt 28:18). Therefore authority comes from Jesus.

        If you think there should be unity then come and join the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Bede View Post
          We are supposed to spread the gospel. How can we keep our beliefs private?
          The gospel is actually the good news that Jesus is Messiah and Son of God who was born of Virgin Mary, conceived of Holy Spirit, only begotten of Father who died for us and was raised up again by his Father and made us his Father's sons and daughters and made us free and saved us. Now its up to you, how deep you can make it. We should let unbelievers know the basic beliefs and if we wanna tell them our own beliefs, we should tell them that its your own if it could encourage one's faith. Read Romans 14.
          Originally posted by Bede View Post
          Jesus said: "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.” (Mt 28:18). Therefore authority comes from Jesus.

          If you think there should be unity then come and join the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
          Holy Spirit speaks what Jesus wants us to tell. Jesus has our final authority but what Jesus wanna tell us is notified to us by his Spirit. Holy Spirit is Jesus and Father's own Spirit.
          Originally posted by Bede View Post
          If you think there should be unity then come and join the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
          Church is the body of Christ. If by Church you understand a physical location or a blessed location or any other kinda stuff, then you're wrong. We, all the Christians are part of One,Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church which is the body of Christ. I think Catholicism rituals strengthens a person's faith.
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          • #6
            Actually I know, my own faith is weak as a Hindu background or by my own self. But I know God loves all of us beyond faith and he will still love me and his love will strengthen my faith.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by motirattan View Post
              The gospel is actually the good news that Jesus is Messiah and Son of God who was born of Virgin Mary, conceived of Holy Spirit, only begotten of Father who died for us and was raised up again by his Father and made us his Father's sons and daughters and made us free and saved us. Now its up to you, how deep you can make it. We should let unbelievers know the basic beliefs and if we wanna tell them our own beliefs, we should tell them that its your own if it could encourage one's faith. Read Romans 14.
              The gospel is much more than that. The gospel includes how we are saved by baptism; how we continue to grow in intimacy with Jesus through the Eucharist; how, when we sin, we can be reconciled to God through his mercy and forgiveness, especially in the sacrament of reconciliation. the gospel includes a true understanding of God and of Jesus Christ.

              Originally posted by motirattan View Post
              Holy Spirit speaks what Jesus wants us to tell. Jesus has our final authority but what Jesus wanna tell us is notified to us by his Spirit. Holy Spirit is Jesus and Father's own Spirit.
              No, Jesus does not have our authority. We have to have Jesus’ authority. And you don’t get that from the Bible as you claimed in your OP.

              Thinking the Holy Spirit guides you personally into all truth is a false belief. People who think that end up with myriad conflicting beliefs. That’s the fallacy that Protestantism unleashed on Christendom and look what happened – 30,000 different protestant denominations not to mention one man churches. Look at the fruit to see the rottenness of that belief.

              Originally posted by motirattan View Post
              Church is the body of Christ. If by Church you understand a physical location or a blessed location or any other kinda stuff, then you're wrong. We, all the Christians are part of One,Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church which is the body of Christ. I think Catholicism rituals strengthens a person's faith.
              Jesus founded a Church (Mt 16:18); he founded it on the Apostles (Eph 2:20) and it is described as the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim 3:15). He gave them authority and a mission to preach the gospel (Mt28:16-20)

              The Church that Jesus founded is both visible and invisible. It is visible in that it exists in a visible structure, with a visible organisation and with authority given it by Jesus himself (Mt 28:18-20). It is invisible in that it is the “body of Christ” which consists of all Christians, even those estranged from the Church that Jesus founded..



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              • #8
                Originally posted by Bede View Post
                The gospel is much more than that. The gospel includes how we are saved by baptism; how we continue to grow in intimacy with Jesus through the Eucharist; how, when we sin, we can be reconciled to God through his mercy and forgiveness, especially in the sacrament of reconciliation. the gospel includes a true understanding of God and of Jesus Christ.
                I told you earlier that it depends on you, how deep can you make it.
                Originally posted by Bede View Post
                No, Jesus does not have our authority. We have to have Jesus’ authority. And you don’t get that from the Bible as you claimed in your OP.
                All Christians( true followers of Christ) have given their authority to Christ.
                Originally posted by Bede View Post
                Thinking the Holy Spirit guides you personally into all truth is a false belief. People who think that end up with myriad conflicting beliefs. That’s the fallacy that Protestantism unleashed on Christendom and look what happened – 30,000 different protestant denominations not to mention one man churches. Look at the fruit to see the rottenness of that belief.
                Please notify me the scriptural evidence.
                Originally posted by Bede View Post
                Jesus founded a Church (Mt 16:18); he founded it on the Apostles (Eph 2:20) and it is described as the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim 3:15). He gave them authority and a mission to preach the gospel (Mt28:16-20)
                Can you explain it more?
                Comment>

                • #9
                  Originally posted by motirattan View Post
                  I told you earlier that it depends on you, how deep can you make it.
                  How deep can you make what?

                  Originally posted by motirattan View Post
                  All Christians( true followers of Christ) have given their authority to Christ.
                  Nobody gives authority to Christ except God the Father.

                  Originally posted by motirattan View Post
                  Please notify me the scriptural evidence.
                  Scriptural evidence for what?

                  Originally posted by motirattan View Post
                  Can you explain it more?
                  What do youi not understand?
                  I gave you scriptures. read them.

                  Comment>

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bede View Post
                    How deep can you make what?
                    It means that how much deeper meaning can you create of it.
                    Originally posted by Bede View Post
                    Scriptural evidence for what?
                    That Holy Spirit not guides us or what you claim.
                    Originally posted by Bede View Post
                    What do youi not understand?
                    I gave you scriptures. read them.
                    I wanna understand how this Church is actually a physical location. If it was then we must go to a single specific Church location and only gather there together. Jesus was talking of a congregation through Apostles and has revealed them the basic beliefs and their authority.
                    Originally posted by Bede View Post
                    Nobody gives authority to Christ except God the Father.
                    Acknowledging Christ as our Lord gives him our authority. Who is Lord? A person who has authority over us. If we do not need to give our authority then all irrespective of their religions can be saved by Father through Christ. Man was created in image of God and likewise Christ has his own authority, we have our own authority.
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                    • #11
                      You've all heard the story of the blindmen and elephant? If you haven't here's the short version. Six blind men touch an elephant to learn what it is like. At the end of the experiment each describes the elephant. None of them are right since they describe the different parts of the elephant [they touched]. One very intelligent person said, Christians are very much like these blind men. Each denomination is right about something but just like the blind men none of them has all the truth about Christ. There's much Christians can learn from each other if only they would be willing [to learn].
                      Comment>

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Smithee View Post
                        You've all heard the story of the blindmen and elephant? If you haven't here's the short version. Six blind men touch an elephant to learn what it is like. At the end of the experiment each describes the elephant. None of them are right since they describe the different parts of the elephant [they touched]. One very intelligent person said, Christians are very much like these blind men. Each denomination is right about something but just like the blind men none of them has all the truth about Christ. There's much Christians can learn from each other if only they would be willing [to learn].
                        I agree Smithee with you
                        Comment>

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by motirattan View Post
                          It means that how much deeper meaning can you create of it.
                          I haven’t a clue what you are on about.

                          Originally posted by motirattan View Post
                          That Holy Spirit not guides us or what you claim.
                          I said:
                          Thinking the Holy Spirit guides you personally into all truth is a false belief.

                          In other words scripture never says that the Holy Spirit guides individual Christians into all truth.

                          Do you want me to give proof from scripture that scripture doesn’t say something?

                          Originally posted by motirattan View Post
                          I wanna understand how this Church is actually a physical location. If it was then we must go to a single specific Church location and only gather there together. Jesus was talking of a congregation through Apostles and has revealed them the basic beliefs and their authority.
                          I never claimed that Jesus founded a Church in a specific location. It is an organisation with a hierarchical structure. It has specific people with authority over others. Of course the top of the hierarchy will normally reside somewhere but that can change.

                          Jesus gave the apostles the authority to bind and loose (Mt 18:18)
                          Jesus gave the apostles the authority to forgive sins (Jn 20:21-22)

                          The apostles in their turn passed on this authority to those they appointed to follow them in leadership.

                          Originally posted by motirattan View Post
                          Acknowledging Christ as our Lord gives him our authority. Who is Lord? A person who has authority over us. If we do not need to give our authority then all irrespective of their religions can be saved by Father through Christ. Man was created in image of God and likewise Christ has his own authority, we have our own authority.
                          I don’t think you understand what authority is.

                          When we become a Christian we submit to HIS authority over us. Jesus is the one with authority not us and he got his authority from the Father.

                          If you speed in your car a policeman has authority, given to him from above, to stop and arrest you. You don’t give him authority.

                          Comment>

                          • #14
                            Originally posted by motirattan View Post
                            I agree Smithee with you
                            It seems to me that there seems to be three possibilities:

                            1. Jesus established more than one Church.

                            2. Jesus established only one Church but it is an invisible abstract spiritual Church in which all believers are members. In this Church one of these must be true, either:
                            a) doctrhave ine does not matter, or
                            b) it is acceptable to have conflicting doctrines and contradictory doctrines.

                            3. Jesus established only one Church, a visible Church, a Church in which doctrine matters and with no conflicting doctrines. This Church contain the fullness of truth as revealed by God.

                            I believe 3 is correct. Jesus set up one Church with one set of teaching.

                            He promised the Apostles, the leaders of that Church that “..when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth.” (Jn 16:13). We can know the truth.
                            Comment>

                            • #15
                              Corinthians 1:12-13

                              What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

                              From this verse alone, it seems to me that Paul doesn't really approve of denominations. But as we can read further through the reading, there's even more doubt as to whether denominations are a part of the Church or not. As Paul disapproves of it because it can cause a weakening of the Church or even the faith of people itself.

                              Corinthians 1:12-31

                              For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit. For the body does not consist of one member but of many. If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body.

                              Now, this one's a bit of a contradiction... As you can see, Jews and Greeks are mentioned here and they aren't really looked down upon or anything. It says here that all the other sects are important parts of the Church itself. Like it said, one cannot function without the other.

                              Corinthians 11:19

                              For there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.

                              Here's the catch: Not all sects can be considered as part of the Christian religion. You must decide for yourself which one is truly going to help you build a relationship with God and Jesus Christ. Note that there are non-Christian cults that you need to avoid of, there's many of them. It's up to you what denomination or sect you choose as long as it's proven to be a good part of the community and has helped people around the world.
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