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The queen of heaven

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  • The queen of heaven

    God told Jeremiah he shouldn’t even pray for the people of Israel because their sins had reached the point that judgment was unavoidable. One of the sins he cited was their worship of the queen of heaven. Entire families were engaged in this worship.
    As for you, do not pray for this people, or lift up a cry or prayer for them, and do not intercede with me, for I will not hear you. Do you not see what they are doing in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? The children gather wood, the fathers kindle fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven. And they pour out drink offerings to other gods, to provoke me to anger.
    Jeremiah 7:16-18 ESV
    The people refused to listen to Jeremiah and judgment came. Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon, captured Jerusalem and the members of the ruling class were killed or taken to Babylon as captives. Some of the people who were left fled to Egypt, taking Jeremiah with them. Even then they refused to give up their worship of the queen of heaven.
    Then all the men who knew that their wives had made offerings to other gods, and all the women who stood by, a great assembly, all the people who lived in Pathros in the land of Egypt, answered Jeremiah: “As for the word that you have spoken to us in the name of the LORD, we will not listen to you. But we will do everything that we have vowed, make offerings to the queen of heaven and pour out drink offerings to her, as we did, both we and our fathers, our kings and our officials, in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem. For then we had plenty of food, and prospered, and saw no disaster. But since we left off making offerings to the queen of heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her, we have lacked everything and have been consumed by the sword and by famine.”

    And the women said, “When we made offerings to the queen of heaven and poured out drink offerings to her, was it without our husbands’ approval that we made cakes for her bearing her image and poured out drink offerings to her?”
    Jeremiah 44:15-19 ESV
    The queen of heaven was the Sidonian goddess Ashtoreth who was among the many false god the Israelites worshiped.

    Today many people serve another queen of heaven. They call Mary, the mother of Jesus, the queen of heaven. Their intention is to honor her. But is it really honoring to Mary to give her the title that once belonged to a goddess so evil that God told Jeremiah not even to pray for those who worshiped her?


    Clyde Herrin's Blog

  • #2
    Originally posted by theophilus View Post
    God told Jeremiah he shouldn’t even pray for the people of Israel because their sins had reached the point that judgment was unavoidable. One of the sins he cited was their worship of the queen of heaven. Entire families were engaged in this worship.
    As for you, do not pray for this people, or lift up a cry or prayer for them, and do not intercede with me, for I will not hear you. Do you not see what they are doing in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? The children gather wood, the fathers kindle fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven. And they pour out drink offerings to other gods, to provoke me to anger.
    Jeremiah 7:16-18 ESV
    The people refused to listen to Jeremiah and judgment came. Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon, captured Jerusalem and the members of the ruling class were killed or taken to Babylon as captives. Some of the people who were left fled to Egypt, taking Jeremiah with them. Even then they refused to give up their worship of the queen of heaven.
    Then all the men who knew that their wives had made offerings to other gods, and all the women who stood by, a great assembly, all the people who lived in Pathros in the land of Egypt, answered Jeremiah: “As for the word that you have spoken to us in the name of the LORD, we will not listen to you. But we will do everything that we have vowed, make offerings to the queen of heaven and pour out drink offerings to her, as we did, both we and our fathers, our kings and our officials, in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem. For then we had plenty of food, and prospered, and saw no disaster. But since we left off making offerings to the queen of heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her, we have lacked everything and have been consumed by the sword and by famine.”

    And the women said, “When we made offerings to the queen of heaven and poured out drink offerings to her, was it without our husbands’ approval that we made cakes for her bearing her image and poured out drink offerings to her?”
    Jeremiah 44:15-19 ESV
    The queen of heaven was the Sidonian goddess Ashtoreth who was among the many false god the Israelites worshiped.

    Today many people serve another queen of heaven. They call Mary, the mother of Jesus, the queen of heaven. Their intention is to honor her. But is it really honoring to Mary to give her the title that once belonged to a goddess so evil that God told Jeremiah not even to pray for those who worshiped her?

    Mary as Queen of Heaven has nothing to do with the pagan cult of the queen of heaven condemned in Jeremiah but relates to her position of the mother of Jesus who is the King of Heaven (and sits on the throne of David).

    Giving honour to the true Queen of Heaven is not wrong because some pagans 3,000 years ago gave honour to a false queen of heaven, just as worshipping the one true God is not wrong because some pagans 3,000 years ago worshipped false gods.
    Comment>

    • #3
      Originally posted by Bede View Post
      Mary as Queen of Heaven has nothing to do with the pagan cult of the queen of heaven condemned in Jeremiah but relates to her position of the mother of Jesus who is the King of Heaven (and sits on the throne of David).

      Giving honour to the true Queen of Heaven is not wrong because some pagans 3,000 years ago gave honour to a false queen of heaven, just as worshipping the one true God is not wrong because some pagans 3,000 years ago worshipped false gods.
      Give proof that Mary is the queen of heaven.
      Comment>

      • #4
        Originally posted by motirattan View Post
        Give proof that Mary is the queen of heaven.
        Let us start with Jesus.

        God promised David his throne (i.e. his kingdom) would last for ever (2Sam 7:11-16). At the Annunciation the Angel says to Mary that her son (Jesus) “will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father, and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.” (Lk 1:32-33). Jesus kingdom is the Davidic kingdom and has the characteristics of the Davidic kingdom. One of these characteristics is the role of king’s mother.

        Six points about tgis.
        #1 In a monarchical system a woman may have the title Queen for one of three reasons.
        We can see examples of this in both the recent history in the UK and in the Bible. I will give examples from the Bible.

        1. The woman is a ruler in her own right. For example the Queen of Sheba (see 1Kg 10)

        2. The woman is the wife of the reigning king. In the book of Esther, King Ahasuerus had many concubines, but gave one of them the honour of being designated Queen, first Vashti, but then Esther.

        3. The woman is the mother of the reigning king. In the kingdom of David the king might have multiple wives, so the practice was to give the title Queen Mother to the mother of the king. This was instituted by Solomon the son of David.

        We see this first established by Solomon when he greets Bathsheba who comes to ask a favour. He pays her homage and sits her on a throne at his right hand (a position of honour) (1Kg 2:19)

        After Solomon the kingdom splits into the Northern kingdom (Israel) and the Southern kingdom (Judah). After this there were 20 kings in Israel before the deportation to Assyria. For none of these is the mother of the king mentioned.

        There were 19 kings in Judah after Solomon before they were deported to Babylon. In 17 of these the king’s mother is given, usually after introducing the king, with the words “his mother’s name was ……”. This in itself shows that the king’s mother was a significant figure.

        The mother of the king was referred to as the queen mother (1Kg15:13 (& 2Chr 15:16), 2Kg 10:13, Jer 13:18, Jer 29:2.). Note the Hebrew is gebirah – queen. The KJV just says queen but more modern translations say queen mother as she is the mother of the king.

        #2 This role of queen mother was an established role in the kingdom.
        “He also removed Maacah his mother from being queen mother because she had an abominable image made for Asherah” (1Kg 15:13)

        #3 The queen mother sat on a throne at the right of her son
        “So Bathsheba went to King Solomon, to speak to him on behalf of Adonijah. And the king rose to meet her, and bowed down to her; then he sat on his throne, and had a seat [throne] brought for the king's mother; and she sat on his right.”(1Kg 2:19)

        #4 The queen mother had authority.
        Firstly she sat on the right of the king which is the position of honour and authority.

        There is one particularly interesting woman Athalia, who was the mother of Ahazier the sixth king of Judah. After her son was killed, she killed all the royal family (except one baby who was hidden from her) and assumed power in her own right. She ruled as Queen for six years until she was killed and her grandson Joash installed as king at the age of seven. She would not have been able to do that if she was not in a recognised position of authority to start with.

        We can also see the important position of the queen mother in Jeremiah 13:18-20
        “Say to the king and the queen mother: ‘Take a lowly seat, for your beautiful crown has come down from your head. The cities of the Negeb are shut up, with none to open them; all Judah is taken into exile, wholly taken into exile. "Lift up your eyes and see those who come from the north. Where is the flock that was given you, your beautiful flock?’”
        Three points to note here.

        Firstly Jeremiah is told to address both the king and queen mother. They are both to be punished by God.

        Secondly both the king and queen mother are to come down from their thrones and to lose their crowns. They are both royalty in the kingdom.

        Thirdly God says to them: “Where is the flock that was given you, your beautiful flock?”
        They are both responsible for the flock, the sheep – i.e. the people that God entrusted to them. God had given the queen mother responsibilities for the people, not just the king. That does not mean that the queen mother was equal in authority to the king. The authority she had was derived from and under the king. She was still subject to him.

        #5 Jesus is the true Davidic king with an eternal kingdom. That kingdom is based in Heaven.
        “Jesus answered, ‘My kingdom does not belong to this world.’” (Jn 18:36)

        “Then I saw the heavens opened, and there was a white horse; its rider was (called) “Faithful and True.” He judges and wages war in righteousness…….. He has a name written on his cloak and on his thigh, “King of kings and Lord of lords.” (Rev 19:11-16)

        #6 Mary is the mother of Jesus As the mother of the King of Heaven, Mary has the right to the title Queen of Heaven. That does not mean she is equal to Jesus or anything like that.
        Comment>

        • #5
          Originally posted by Bede View Post
          Mary is the mother of Jesus As the mother of the King of Heaven, Mary has the right to the title Queen of Heaven. That does not mean she is equal to Jesus or anything like that.
          I agree. She is blessed. But in Christ Jesus, we all are equal including Mary, Saints, the O.T. prophets and all other believers.
          Comment>

          • #6
            Originally posted by Bede View Post
            Mary as Queen of Heaven has nothing to do with the pagan cult of the queen of heaven condemned in Jeremiah but relates to her position of the mother of Jesus who is the King of Heaven (and sits on the throne of David).
            Where in the Bible is Jesus ever called the King of Heaven? He is the king of the Jews and as such he will reign on earth, not in heaven. If Jesus is the king of heaven his wife, not his mother, will bear the title queen of heaven. The church is the bride of Christ and her marriage to him is described in Revelation 19, just before he returns to earth to begin his thousand year reign.
            Clyde Herrin's Blog
            Comment>

            • #7
              Originally posted by motirattan View Post

              I agree. She is blessed. But in Christ Jesus, we all are equal including Mary, Saints, the O.T. prophets and all other believers.
              It depends on what you mean by equal.

              Can you explain and also provide some scriptural evidence rather than just stating it.
              Comment>

              • #8
                Originally posted by theophilus View Post
                Where in the Bible is Jesus ever called the King of Heaven? He is the king of the Jews and as such he will reign on earth, not in heaven. If Jesus is the king of heaven his wife, not his mother, will bear the title queen of heaven. The church is the bride of Christ and her marriage to him is described in Revelation 19, just before he returns to earth to begin his thousand year reign.
                Read the OP. Your points are answered there.
                Comment>

                • #9
                  Originally posted by theophilus View Post
                  Where in the Bible is Jesus ever called the King of Heaven? He is the king of the Jews and as such he will reign on earth, not in heaven. If Jesus is the king of heaven his wife, not his mother, will bear the title queen of heaven.
                  "Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."(Matthew 28:18) Jesus has all the authority on earth and heaven, therefore he is the everlasting King of Earth and Heavens,and of all the creation which is pronounced good by God.
                  Comment>
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