Discuss science topics such as creation and evolution and how they relate to Christianity.

Dr Charles Bree, the scientist who challenged Charles Darwin's science

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    Dr Charles Bree, the scientist who challenged Charles Darwin's science

    A long forgotten English zoologist and surgeon wrote the first book that set out to disprove evolution.

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    #2
    And here we are, 150 or so years later and Bree is (at best) a footnote in history while Charles Darwin remains the most famous biologist in history.

    This part of the creation.com article interested me: "In fact, from Genesis history he might have realized that the diversity of species today must have descended from a more limited number of kinds on the Ark."

    So according to this website, we went from a very small (2 or 7) number of representatives of each "kind" to all the species in existence today in a relatively very short amount of time. How does that happen without evolution, or the evolution of new species?
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      #3
      Originally posted by River Jordan View Post
      How does that happen without evolution, or the evolution of new species?
      It happens by the process of natural selection, which is just the opposite of evolution. Evolution teaches that life began with simple single celled organisms which evolved into the many complex organisms that exist today. The Bible teaches that God created very complex organisms that through the natural selection process produced the many forms of life that exist today.

      The fact that Darwin is famous and Bree is almost unknown shows that most people don't want to acknowledge that God is our creator.
      Clyde Herrin's Blog
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        #4
        Originally posted by theophilus View Post
        It happens by the process of natural selection, which is just the opposite of evolution.
        That makes as much sense as "moving water is the opposite of erosion".

        But I would like to see your more detailed explanation of how we went from a single breeding pair of each "kind" to all the species that exist today, but without the evolution of any new species.

        The Bible teaches that God created very complex organisms that through the natural selection process produced the many forms of life that exist today.
        Can you quote scripture where it says anything about "complex organisms" or natural selection?

        The fact that Darwin is famous and Bree is almost unknown shows that most people don't want to acknowledge that God is our creator.
        Sorry, I don't understand how the latter follows from the former.
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          #5
          Darwin didn't have the same technology Bree had access to, that makes him a little more reliable. We also understand that single cells are much more complex than what Darwin could even try study.

          People want who will tell them what they want to hear, they want Darwin, they want humanisim, they want eugenics, not the creation story and Christ because they don't want to be accountable for their sins.
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            #6
            Originally posted by River Jordan View Post
            But I would like to see your more detailed explanation of how we went from a single breeding pair of each "kind" to all the species that exist today, but without the evolution of any new species.
            As individuals spread out over the earth they encountered many different living conditions. Sometimes some individuals would be better suited for survival so their descendants increased in number while others decreased. Over time these changes resulted in the formation different species. These species didn't evolve because no new genetic information was formed. Certain genes that already existed were selected because they helped individuals survive.

            Originally posted by River Jordan View Post
            Can you quote scripture where it says anything about "complex organisms" or natural selection?
            No, these words aren't found in the Bible.
            Clyde Herrin's Blog
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              #7
              Originally posted by Innerfire89 View Post
              People want who will tell them what they want to hear, they want Darwin, they want humanisim, they want eugenics, not the creation story and Christ because they don't want to be accountable for their sins.
              You're setting the terms to where someone can't be a Christian (or even believe in God) and recognize evolution as real. But the reality is, most "evolutionists" are not atheists and there are millions of "Christian evolutionists" all over the world.
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                #8
                Originally posted by theophilus View Post
                As individuals spread out over the earth they encountered many different living conditions. Sometimes some individuals would be better suited for survival so their descendants increased in number while others decreased. Over time these changes resulted in the formation different species. These species didn't evolve because no new genetic information was formed.
                What do you mean by "genetic information"?

                Certain genes that already existed were selected because they helped individuals survive.
                Where did those genes come from?

                No, these words aren't found in the Bible.
                Thank you.
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                  #9
                  Originally posted by River Jordan View Post

                  You're setting the terms to where someone can't be a Christian (or even believe in God) and recognize evolution as real. But the reality is, most "evolutionists" are not atheists and there are millions of "Christian evolutionists" all over the world.
                  I'm not setting any terms.

                  Darwins theory enables godless beliefs, I've yet to meet an atheist who doesn't believe in macro evolution or try to use it as proof against God.

                  As far as millions of Christians believe macro evolution, I'd like to know where that statistic came from, what makes it credible, and are they really Christians.
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                    #10
                    Originally posted by River Jordan View Post
                    Where did those genes come from?
                    They were created by God.
                    Clyde Herrin's Blog
                    Comment>

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Innerfire89 View Post
                      Darwins theory enables godless beliefs, I've yet to meet an atheist who doesn't believe in macro evolution or try to use it as proof against God.
                      Personally, I don't let atheists play any role in determining what realities I do or don't accept. So if an atheist tries to argue that evolution means God doesn't exist, I don't let that be a deciding factor in whether or not I recognize evolution as real.

                      As far as millions of Christians believe macro evolution, I'd like to know where that statistic came from, what makes it credible, and are they really Christians.
                      This article is a good starting point: Public Acceptance of Evolution | Science
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                        #12
                        Originally posted by theophilus View Post
                        They were created by God.
                        Do you believe God created the genetic sequences that allow the malaria parasite to kill millions of people? After all, the life history of that particular parasite is quite complex, which obviously requires very complex genetics.

                        And I think you missed this....... What do you mean by "genetic information"?
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                          #13
                          Originally posted by River Jordan View Post
                          Do you believe God created the genetic sequences that allow the malaria parasite to kill millions of people? After all, the life history of that particular parasite is quite complex, which obviously requires very complex genetics.

                          And I think you missed this....... What do you mean by "genetic information"?
                          The entrance of sin into the world has affected all life so that some forms are now harmful.

                          By genetic information I mean the information that is found in our genes and that we pass on to our descendants.
                          Clyde Herrin's Blog
                          Comment>

                            #14
                            Originally posted by theophilus View Post
                            The entrance of sin into the world has affected all life so that some forms are now harmful.
                            That doesn't really address the issue. The plasmodium life cycle requires numerous very specific genes that are quite complex and (I assume) contain a lot of "genetic information". Your position is that the only source of genes and "genetic information" is God. Surely you see what that means, right?

                            By genetic information I mean the information that is found in our genes and that we pass on to our descendants.
                            Again, a definition that contains the term being defined is the logical fallacy of circular definition. Similar to your use of the term "kind", if you cannot define the term upon which your argument hinges, then your argument is meaningless.
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                              #15
                              Originally posted by River Jordan View Post
                              Personally, I don't let atheists play any role in determining what realities I do or don't accept. So if an atheist tries to argue that evolution means God doesn't exist, I don't let that be a deciding factor in whether or not I recognize evolution as real.


                              This article is a good starting point: Public Acceptance of Evolution | Science
                              I tried to check out the article but couldn't get it to load.

                              Darwins theory contradicts our God as understood from Scripture, so atheist use his theory in attempt to discredit Scripture and/or deny God's existance. Darwin believed our God could not be true due to suffering in the world. Ironic though that Darwin wasn't an atheist.
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