Discuss science topics such as creation and evolution and how they relate to Christianity.

Poll Question: Creationism, OEC or YEC?

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  • Poll Question: Creationism, OEC or YEC?

    OEC = old earth creationism
    YEC = young earth creationism

    Which view do you hold: old earth creationism or young earth creationism? This poll is not about evolution. Old earth creationism does not necessarily endorse or even imply evolution. We will save that question for another poll.

    Tell us what you think and why.
    29
    OEC
    34.48%
    10
    YEC
    48.28%
    14
    Don't Know
    6.90%
    2
    Don't Care
    0%
    0
    Doesn't Matter
    10.34%
    3

  • #2
    Originally posted by Origen View Post
    Old earth creationism does not necessarily endorse or even imply evolution.
    I am glad you differentiated between these, however, I can't seem to understand how one would come to an Old Earth Creation without opening the door to Darwinian Evolution, or at the least rely on extra-biblical evidence (dating). With respect to your OP, I anxiously await someone to explain this position from Scripture (emphasis).

    God bless,
    William
    Comment>

    • #3
      Originally posted by William View Post

      I am glad you differentiated between these, however, I can't seem to understand how one would come to an Old Earth Creation without opening the door to Darwinian Evolution or at the least rely on extra-biblical evidence (dating). With respect to your OP, I anxiously await someone to explain this position from Scripture (emphasis).

      God bless,
      William
      I really do not like the terms YEC and OEC but those are the ones most often used. I would prefer something like old universe creationism and young universe creationism.

      I see no reason to think simply because one believes that the universe is very old that necessarily one must also believe in evolution. I don't.
      Last edited by Origen; 03-01-2016, 08:13 AM.
      Comment>

      • #4
        Originally posted by Origen View Post
        I see no reason to think simply because one believes that the universe is very old that necessarily one must also believe in evolution. I don't.
        I can see why that would bother you, and I will refrain from making such an observation. Especially if Old Universe Creationism could be clarified from Scripture. I thought it was rather entertaining when Presidential candidate Ben Carson was being interviewed by Bill O'Reilly. Ben Carson began to explain his belief in OEC by using the Gap theory. O'Reilly opened the door fully which was introduced by the Gap theory, quickly blazing a path to Darwinian Evolution. Ben Carson looked very annoyed, but didn't have the opportunity to followup with a response.

        God bless,
        William
        Comment>

        • #5
          The Engineer in me sees a lot of evidence for both micro-evolution (not being discussed) and geological time scale phenomenon in my work (with soils and wetlands) that makes me want to lean towards an Earth greater than 6000 years old. Counterbalancing that is the lifetime of personal experience that no one ever came out ahead in the long run by betting against the Bible. I am old enough to remember when school books taught that the Hittites never existed, but look who turned out to be right about an iron using civilization with spoked chariot wheels that pre-dated the Romans. So I am forced to vote "Don't Know".
          Comment>

          • #6
            Originally posted by atpollard View Post
            The Engineer in me sees a lot of evidence for both micro-evolution (not being discussed) and geological time scale phenomenon in my work (with soils and wetlands) that makes me want to lean towards an Earth greater than 6000 years old. Counterbalancing that is the lifetime of personal experience that no one ever came out ahead in the long run by betting against the Bible. I am old enough to remember when school books taught that the Hittites never existed, but look who turned out to be right about an iron using civilization with spoked chariot wheels that pre-dated the Romans. So I am forced to vote "Don't Know".
            I don't believe any Young Earth Creationist here is going to argue against Micro Evolution or adaptive variations and environmental adaptations. It is the inference from micro evolution to macro evolution that are argued as assumptions without observation or evidence. In Scripture, "according to their kind" is argued by YEC to be paralleled to species, and not genus. YEC have no problem with cats producing other subspecies, or dogs to dogs and other subspecies. But they will quickly point out that dogs have been bred in every conceivable way and never have produced a cat, an elephant, or any other genus.

            But Origen has touched upon the age of an old universe. My first thoughts are to do with the appearance of age of the universe. How is age being measured, and if by light or forms of radiation could the beams of light emitted by stars been put in place giving the illusion of age? It may be a complicated suggestion, I understand, that some will quickly point out that God would be deceiving us if He created such an illusion, but I give pause to that suggestion because even the star light we see may be from a long gone star which already has passed.

            God bless,
            William
            Comment>

            • #7
              Originally posted by William View Post

              I can see why that would bother you, and I will refrain from making such an observation. Especially if Old Universe Creationism could be clarified from Scripture. I thought it was rather entertaining when Presidential candidate Ben Carson was being interviewed by Bill O'Reilly. Ben Carson began to explain his belief in OEC by using the Gap theory. O'Reilly opened the door fully which was introduced by the Gap theory, quickly blazing a path to Darwinian Evolution. Ben Carson looked very annoyed, but didn't have the opportunity to followup with a response.

              God bless,
              William
              Please don't stop of account of me William. I promise you it does not bother me. I can take it.

              Comment>

              • #8
                Originally posted by atpollard View Post
                I am forced to vote "Don't Know".
                I thought about voting that way myself. I went with OEC because I lean that way, but to tell the truth any of the above choices would be fine with me.
                Comment>

                • #9
                  One could look at the time it takes light from distant galaxies to get here and conclude the universe is maybe billions of years old. But, have you noticed that no one is lining up galaxies by distance to show the evolution of galaxies, as we peer billions of years back in time? You can guess why. Anyway, the trouble I have with an old Earth is that while you're trying to be rational about light vs. distance, you're extrapolating into irrational nonsense, a universe expanding under literally overwhelming gravitational attraction, and ultimately to a singularity that defies every thing we know about science.

                  I find it interesting that Genesis says daylight was created before the light source. This isn't because of any primitive ignorance about the source of daylight. If you want to have faith in impossible physics to accept the Big Bang, why not have faith in an act of God to create young Earth with very distant stars, which the Bible says were made for man, being visible. Besides, if the Earth is the center of the universe, gravitational time dilation explains stellar red-shift and how light from billions of years away could have arrived to Earth in thousands of years.
                  Comment>

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Origen View Post
                    I would prefer some like old universe creationism and young universe creationism.
                    This is something entirely different from YEC and OEC. I believe in YEC but I also believe in old universe creationism. The Bible says that on the fourth day God placed lights in the sky but it doesn't say he created the bodies that produced these light at that time. There is a post in my blog in which I explain by beliefs in more detail:

                    Young earth, old universe | clydeherrin
                    Clyde Herrin's Blog
                    Comment>

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by theophilus View Post
                      This is something entirely different from YEC and OEC. I believe in YEC but I also believe in old universe creationism.
                      I understand that the views of others can run the spectrum and some people will emphasize one point over another. As I point out above, I went with OEC because I lean that way, but to tell the truth any of the above choices would be fine with me.

                      Comment>

                      • #12
                        I voted "doesn't matter." I'm YEC but really, honestly, it doesn't matter to me. It's more important to know who created the world than argue over how long it took based on scant material.

                        Yours in the Lord,

                        jm
                        Comment>

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ~JM~ View Post
                          I voted "doesn't matter." I'm YEC but really, honestly, it doesn't matter to me. It's more important to know who created the world than argue over how long it took based on scant material.

                          Yours in the Lord,

                          jm
                          I agree with your point JM, but the problem I experience is when a person shifts from "who" to "how". Those millions of years need filling, and Darwin's Evolution seemingly plugs the gap though often conflicting Scripture. While I respect your answer, and can see merit in it, I think sometimes it is best not to press someone. At the same time, I ask, is it really a good idea not to press someone and make them choose between Scripture and Darwinian Evolution? I met a guy once in another Christian forum that believes in OEC, Darwinian evolution, as well as an Intelligent Designer. One day, I observed some members kept pressing him hard on the issue, he finally came out and said, if I must choose, there is no way I can reject evolution because of evidence. Never seen him again, and he was a regular in discussions. Needlessly said, I couldn't see how the YEC party could claim victory.

                          God bless,
                          William
                          Comment>

                          • #14
                            Originally posted by William View Post

                            I agree with your point JM, but the problem I experience is when a person shifts from "who" to "how". Those millions of years need filling, and Darwin's Evolution seemingly plugs the gap though often conflicting Scripture. While I respect your answer, and can see merit in it, I think sometimes it is best not to press someone. At the same time, I ask, is it really a good idea not to press someone and make them choose between Scripture and Darwinian Evolution? I met a guy once in another Christian forum that believes in OEC, Darwinian evolution, as well as an Intelligent Designer. One day, I observed some members kept pressing him hard on the issue, he finally came out and said, if I must choose, there is no way I can reject evolution because of evidence. Never seen him again, and he was a regular in discussions. Needlessly said, I couldn't see how the YEC party could claim victory.

                            God bless,
                            William
                            Thanks William. I guess it hasn't been my experience that people jump to evilution if grounded in the word. If not anything could happen and it does. Thank God for His saving grace!
                            Comment>

                            • #15
                              Please vote and comment if you like.
                              Comment>
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