"The selfsame day"

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • "The selfsame day"

    Jeromy translated the Old Testament from the the LXX. His was the second translation EVER of the Old Testament . . . except where the writers of the New Testament have created their own version of quotations from the LXX, and where not from the LXX, from the OT Hebrew.

    That was all very good.

    But there was ONE 'expression' I have discovered myself for what it is worth to the serious student of the Scriptures, where everybody has followed the 70 in one serious oversight which as a result has never received due recognition.

    The English was only the second translation of real significance in all history, that by Wycliffe of the Vulgate Latin, and that by Tyndale of the Greek of Erasmus' compilation.

    As recent as 1611 the translation with the greatest influence upon all humankind ever, the KJV was first published as 'Authorised Version'.

    In that Version obvious attempt had been made to distinguish and articulate the particular phrasing I am referring to, to be understood better. But history proved its real meaning and importance got lost for posterity.

    I have personally been involved in vehement debate on the point of order. I believe I have discovered its primitive and divinely inspired meaning. For which claim I have been made the laughingstock of Christian as well as Jewish Hebrew scholarship.

    Of course. had my discovery been groundless speculation, no one would have taken it seriously, would any? It seems they rather would.

    The phrasing I am referring to is in some places in the KJV rendered with "the selfsame day". Which is a unique phrasing and consequently, but unknowing and subconsciously, caused me to begin think, But just why . . . ?

    Then came the discovery: This was the exact same thing which has been the subject of my wholehearted investigation for forty years of my life and I never, could have guessed!

    God is my witness; I speak no lie. I will not -- by God's grace -- succumb to all the condemnation I have so far received because of this INSIGHT that the gracious God has entrusted to me.

    Read More at :Jerome -Christforums
    Last edited by Gerhard Ebersöhn; 01-19-2017, 01:29 PM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Gerhard Ebersöhn View Post
    Jeromy translated the Old Testament from the the LXX.
    I don't know how accurate Wikipedia is here, but it says, "The Vulgate is usually credited as being the first translation of the Old Testament into Latin directly from the Hebrew Tanakh, rather than the Greek Septuagint." I really hope the Vulgate was translated from Hebrew, rather than Greek, just as an independent testimony to the meaning of the Hebrew Old Testament. Wikipedia goes on to say Jerome leaned heavily no Greek material and that his translation is somewhat paraphrastic.

    Originally posted by Gerhard Ebersöhn View Post
    The English was only the second translation of real significance in all history, that by Wycliffe of the Vulgate Latin
    Wycliffe's English translation was roughly 1400 AD, that's a long time to go with the church only using Latin. Wycliffe, for his great contribution, had the Roman Catholic Church dig up his body and burn it at the stake. Because of the Protestant Reformation, the RCC had lost the power to stop the translation of the Bible into common languages. But, it wasn't until the 20th century that the RCC game up trying to stop Catholics from reading the Bible, but Catholics remain very ignorant of what the Bible says. The RCC fails to even teach Catholics what the Catholic Church believes. Truly, the Catholic Church is useless, a point to remind yourself of when you see their members play the counterfeit one-true-church card.



    Gerhard, what was your discovery?

    Comment>

    • #3

      My discovery was
      That the "selfsame day" the KJV used in most of its incidences for the "three days thick darkness" of the ninth and tenth plagues in Egypt at the exodus its first three days, in the Hebrew original, is 'ha-etsem-ha-yom-hahu' -- "the-BONE-Day" or "the SELFSAME-BONE-Day" or "the-WHOLE-Day-BONE-Day"-of-the-passover-of-Yahweh.

      That was my discovery. And that "THIS SELFSAME DAY" is abundantly witnessed to in the Gospels, especially during the Last Week of Jesus' Paschal-SUFFERING-of-Yahweh its "three days" ... "on the third day" of which, "Christ according to the Scriptures" the Passover-of-Yahweh-Scriptures, "ROSE FROM THE DEAD."

      Comment>

      • #4
        First I have to ask "Did this Jerome a.k.a. Eusebius (Wikipedia)
        translate the OT to Latin, the Vulgate, or what?

        Second, do you mean a special verse whit showing this the-WHOLE-Day-BONE-day-etc
        or just everywhere where it's written ha etzem ha yom hahu?

        Please, clarify your self.
        Comment>

        • #5
          Originally posted by slippy View Post
          First I have to ask "Did this Jerome a.k.a. Eusebius (Wikipedia)
          translate the OT to Latin, the Vulgate, or what?

          Second, do you mean a special verse whit showing this the-WHOLE-Day-BONE-day-etc
          or just everywhere where it's written ha etzem ha yom hahu?

          Please, clarify your self.
          Jerome translated the Greek LXX into Latin, the 'Vulgate'. Jerome was not Eusebius.

          If you want to find our more about the "Bone Day" of the passover, look here... Link
          Comment>

          • #6
            Originally posted by Gerhard Ebersöhn View Post
            Jerome translated the Greek LXX into Latin, the 'Vulgate'. Jerome was not Eusebius.
            Jerome did translate some of the LXX into Latin but the Vulgate is a translation of the Hebrew O.T.

            Jerome was born Eusebius Sophronius Hieronymus.
            Comment>

            • #7
              Originally posted by Origen View Post
              Jerome did translate some of the LXX into Latin but the Vulgate is a translation of the Hebrew O.T.

              Jerome was born Eusebius Sophronius Hieronymus.
              Ignored
              Comment>

              • #8
                Originally posted by Gerhard Ebersöhn View Post
                Ignored
                Why? What part could you not understand?

                Comment>

                • #9
                  Originally posted by Gerhard Ebersöhn View Post
                  Jeromy translated the Old Testament from the the LXX. His was the second translation EVER of the Old Testament
                  Wrong on both points. While Jerome did translate some of the LXX into Latin, the Vulgate is a translation of the Hebrew O.T.

                  Also before Jerome there was:

                  (1) Aquila of Sinope (ca. A.D. 130)

                  (2) Theodotion (ca. A.D. 150)

                  (3) Symmachus (ca. late 2nd century A.D.)

                  All translated the Hebrew text into Greek long before Jerome was even born.


                  The Peshitta (i.e. Syriac text) was translated sometime in the 2nd century A.D.


                  There are also O.T. manuscripts in Old Latin.
                  Last edited by Origen; 01-19-2017, 07:46 PM.
                  Comment>

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Origen View Post
                    Wrong on both points. While Jerome did translate some of the LXX into Latin, the Vulgate is a translation of the Hebrew O.T.

                    Also before Jerome there was:

                    (1) Aquila of Sinope (ca. A.D. 130)

                    (2) Theodotion (ca. A.D. 150)

                    (3) Symmachus (ca. late 2nd century A.D.)

                    All translated the Hebrew text into Greek long before Jerome was even born.


                    The Peshitta (i.e. Syriac text) was translated sometime in the 2nd century A.D.


                    There are also O.T. manuscripts in Old Latin.
                    I saw another, current thread where the subject of your post is being discussed. It is not the subject here whether these gentlemen translated from the Hebrew or from the LXX.


                    Fact remains the Vulgate translated by Jeromy from the LXX was for all practical purposes the only historically significant translation before Tyndale's English Bible the NT, from the Greek, the for all practical historic purposes the ONLY translation which influenced the whole world like no other Bible before it ever, including the Vulgate and the LXX.

                    Now the point of importance for the present discussion derived from these broader matters of fact, is that the Hebrew name of the passover's Bone Day, got lost and has been lost since three centuries BC until the year 2001/2002 at least. I say at least, because the LXX translators (whoever they really might have been) ALREADY were unacquainted with it no one knows for how long, already.

                    Post script,

                    Have you found any of those other early translators whom you have mentioned, have not rendered 'that day'--'ekeineh hehmera', but 'bone-day'? I haven't studied them myself for something like this, but am prepared nevertheless to guarantee no one rendered the idea of 'bone day', which must tell they all translated not from Hebrew, but from Greek -- the LXX!
                    Comment>

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gerhard Ebersöhn View Post
                      I saw another, current thread where the subject of your post is being discussed. It is not the subject here whether these gentlemen translated from the Hebrew or from the LXX.
                      Nevertheless I corrected your errors.

                      Originally posted by Gerhard Ebersöhn View Post
                      Fact remains the Vulgate translated by Jeromy from the LXX was for all practical purposes the only historically significant translation before Tyndale's English Bible the NT
                      The Vulgate was translated from the Hebrew not the Greek. It is a well know historical fact. Second, your claim that it was "the only historically significant translation before Tyndale's English Bible the NT" is nonsense and no textual scholar would agree.

                      Originally posted by Gerhard Ebersöhn View Post
                      Now the point of importance for the present discussion derived from these broader matters of fact, is that the Hebrew name of the passover's Bone Day, got lost and has been lost since three centuries BC until the year 2001/2002 at least. I say at least, because the LXX translators (whoever they really might have been) ALREADY were unacquainted with it no one knows for how long, already.
                      lol

                      Comment>

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Origen View Post
                        Nevertheless I corrected your errors.

                        The Vulgate was translated from the Hebrew not the Greek. It is a well know historical fact. Second, your claim that it was "the only historically significant translation before Tyndale's English Bible the NT" is nonsense and no textual scholar would agree.

                        lol
                        <<Nevertheless I corrected your errors.>> ...so say you. Who else?

                        <<The Vulgate was translated from the Hebrew not the Greek. It is a well know historical fact.>>

                        Since when? Since 'Messianic Judaism' I guess. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


                        <<your claim that it was "the only historically significant translation before Tyndale's English Bible the NT" is nonsense>>

                        Not <nonsense>; your opinion.

                        <<no textual scholar would agree>>

                        What has <textual scholarship> to do with historical virtually statistical issues?



                        Comment>

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Gerhard Ebersöhn View Post
                          so say you. Who else?
                          Anyone who knows anything on the topic. The information I have given you can be found on the internet easily. Look it up. Why have you not done so yet?

                          Originally posted by Gerhard Ebersöhn View Post
                          Since when? Since 'Messianic Judaism' I guess. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
                          Since Jerome himself tells us.

                          Originally posted by Gerhard Ebersöhn View Post
                          your opinion.
                          Not an opinion but a fact concerning textual scholars.

                          Originally posted by Gerhard Ebersöhn View Post
                          What has <textual scholarship> to do with historical virtually statistical issues?
                          Ah, but your claim said nothing about statistical issues. You said it is the "only historically significant translation before Tyndale." That is simply not true. It is not the ONLY historically significant translation. Translations are not necessarily historically significant simply because of statistical issues. Date, place translated, translator, number of manuscripts, language, and many other factors are important. It is not a numbers game.
                          Last edited by Origen; 01-20-2017, 07:21 AM.
                          Comment>

                          • #14
                            Origen , thank you for your clarification on various points. I have no idea why others can't just simply say thanks for your corrections, that is, if truth is our objective.

                            God bless,
                            William
                            Comment>

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by William View Post
                              Origen , thank you for your clarification on various points. I have no idea why others can't just simply say thanks from your corrections, that is, if truth is our objective.

                              God bless,
                              William
                              Thank you William. I really did not know what the problem was. What I have said concerning Jerome and others is nothing new. There is nothing Earth shattering about the information.

                              Comment>
                              Working...
                              X
                              Articles - News - SiteMap