The NIV Exposed

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  • The NIV Exposed

    The NIV Exposed

    by Dr. Ken Matto

    Many churches and Christians are now using the New International Version (NIV) and many believe it will replace the King James Version. We are seeing this come to pass at an alarming rate but the purpose of this study is to let the NIV be its own spokesman in the area of accuracy. We will compare only fifty verses from the following versions:

    KJV - King James Version
    NIV - New International Version
    NAB - New American Bible (Roman Catholic Church)
    NWT - New World Translation (Jehovah's Witnesses)
    The King James Version will be first and the omitted or changed part of the verse will be underlined to indicate the corruption in the NIV. You will also see the NIV's absolute agreement with the NAB and the NWT. Personally, I would be very suspicious of a translation that has so much in common with the Roman Catholic Church and the Jehovah's Witnesses. Another reason I would totally discount this book is because 2 homosexuals were involved in the translation of it. Dr. Virginia Mollenkott and Dr. Marten Woudstra, who was Chairman of the Old Testament Committee.

    Dear Pastor, if your church uses the NIV, do you ever wonder why your people are biblically illiterate, spiritually weak, and confused about the Bible or why your sermons are watered down mush? Well, now you know why! You have been using a JW and RC Bible. The evidence is below! You can reject it but you can't refute it!

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    Matthew 8:29
    KJV: And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

    NIV: "What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?"
    NWT: And, look! they screamed, saying: "What have we to do with you, Son of God? Did you come here to torment us before the appointed time?"
    NAB: With a sudden shriek they cried: "Why meddle with us, Son of God? Have you come to torture us before the appointed time?"

    Matthew 17:21
    KJV: Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

    NIV: Omitted
    NWT: Omitted
    NAB: [This kind does not leave but by prayer and fasting.] (Placed in Brackets)

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    The reader who relies on the New International Version as his sole means of access to the Word of God has no grounds for confidence, at any given passage, that he is hearing the words of God rather than the words of man.
    -Trinitarian Bible Society - The New International Version
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    Matthew 18:11
    KJV: For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

    NIV: Omitted
    NWT: Omitted
    NAB: Omitted


    Matthew 19:9
    KJV: And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

    NIV: I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.
    NWT: I say to you that whoever divorces his wife, except on the ground of fornication, and marries another commits adultery."
    NAB: I now to say to you, whoever divorces his wife (lewd conduct is a separate case) and marries another commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery."

    Matthew 27:35
    KJV: And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.

    NIV: When they had crucified him, they divided up his clothes by casting lots.
    NWT: When they had impaled him they distributed his outer garments by casting lots.
    NAB: When they had crucified him, they divided his clothes among them casting lots.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In too many passages, however, the NIV translation has the slick rhythm and "chatty" conversational styles of a contemporary novel or a television drama. While many people may enjoy such a style, this approach seems to be centered upon the expectation of the worldly-minded reader, instead of upon the need to convey faithfully the words that God actually gave.
    -Trinitarian Bible Society - The New International Version
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Mark 6:11
    KJV: And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

    NIV: And if any place will not welcome you or listen to you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave, as a testimony against them.
    NWT: And wherever a place will not receive you nor hear you, on going out from there shake off the dirt that is beneath your feet for a witness to them"
    NAB: If any place will not receive you or hear you, shake its dust from your feet in testimony against them as you leave.


    Mark 9:44, 46
    KJV: 44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

    NIV: Omitted
    NWT: Omitted
    NAB: Omitted


    Mark 11:26
    KJV: But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

    NIV: Omitted
    NWT: Omitted
    NAB: Omitted


    Mark 15:28
    KJV: And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.
    NIV: Omitted
    NWT: Omitted
    NAB: Omitted


    Luke 2:33
    KJV: And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.

    NIV: The child's father and mother marveled at what was said about him.
    NWT: And its father and mother continued wondering at the things being spoken about it.
    NAB: The child's father and mother were marveling at what was being said about him.


    Luke 4:4
    KJV: And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

    NIV: Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone.'"
    NWT: But Jesus replied to him: "It is written, 'Man must not live by bread alone.'"
    NAB: Jesus answered him, "Scripture has it, 'Not on bread alone shall man live.'"


    Luke 9:55
    KJV: But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

    NIV: But Jesus turned and rebuked them,
    NWT: But he turned and reproved them
    NAB: He turned toward them only to reprimand them.


    Luke 9:56
    KJV: For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

    NIV: and they went to another village.
    NWT: So they went to a different village.
    NAB: Then they set off for another town.


    Luke 17:36
    KJV: Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

    NIV: Omitted
    NWT: Omitted
    NAB: Omitted


    Luke 23:17
    KJV: (For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast.)

    NIV: Omitted
    NWT: Omitted
    NAB: Omitted


    Luke 23:38
    KJV: And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

    NIV: There was a written notice above him, which read: THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS
    NWT: There was also an inscription over him: "This is the king of the Jews."
    NAB: There was an inscription over his head: "THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS."


    John 3:15
    KJV: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

    NIV: That everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.
    NWT: that everyone believing in him may have everlasting life.
    NAB: that all who believe may have eternal life in him.


    John 5:3
    KJV: In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water.

    NIV: Here a great number of disabled people used to lie-the blind, the lame, the paralyzed.
    NWT: In these a multitude of the sick, blind, lame and those with withered members, was lying down.
    NAB: were crowded with sick people lying there blind, lame or disabled [waiting for the movement of the water.]


    John 5:4
    KJV: For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.

    NIV: Omitted
    NWT: Omitted
    NAB: Omitted


    John 6:47
    KJV: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

    NIV: I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.
    NWT: Most truly I say to YOU, He that believes has everlasting life.
    NAB: Let me firmly assure you, he who believes has eternal life.


    John 16:16
    KJV: A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

    NIV: "In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me."
    NWT: In a little while you will behold me no longer, and again, in a little while you will see me."
    NAB: Within a short time you will lose sight of me, but soon after that you shall see me again."


    Acts 2:30
    KJV: Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

    NIV: But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne.
    NWT: Therefore, because he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn to him with an oath that he would seat one from the fruitage of his loins upon his throne.
    NAB: He was a prophet and knew that God had sworn to him that one of his descendants would sit upon his throne.


    Acts 7:37
    KJV: This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

    NIV: This is that Moses who told the Israelites, 'God will send you a prophet like me from your own people.'
    NWT: "This is the Moses that said to the sons of Israel, 'God will raise up for you from among YOUR brothers a prophet like me.'
    NAB: This Moses is the one who said to the Israelites, 'God will raise up for you from among your kinsmen a prophet like me.'


    Acts 8:37
    KJV: And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

    NIV: Omitted
    NWT: Omitted
    NAB: Omitted - Takes half of verse 36 as verse 37


    Acts 24:7
    KJV: But the chief captain Lysias came upon us, and with great violence took him away out of our hands,

    NIV: Omitted
    NWT: Omitted
    NAB: Omitted


    Romans 1:16
    KJV: 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

    NIV: I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first, for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
    NWT: For I am not ashamed of the good news; it is, in fact, God's power for salvation to everyone having faith, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
    NAB: I am not ashamed of the gospel. It is the power of God leading everyone who believes in it to salvation, the Jew first, then the Greek.


    Romans 8:1
    KJV: There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    NIV: THEREFORE, THERE is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
    NWT: Therefore those in union with Christ Jesus have no condemnation.
    NAB: There is no condemnation now for those who are in Christ Jesus


    Romans 11:6
    KJV: And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

    NIV: And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
    NWT: Now if it is by undeserved kindness, it is no longer due to works; otherwise, the undeserved kindness no longer proves to be undeserved kindness.
    NAB: But if the choice is by grace, it is not because of their works-otherwise grace would not be grace


    Romans 16:24
    KJV: The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

    NIV: Omitted
    NWT: Omitted
    NAB: Omitted - They take part of verse 23 for verse 24


    1 Corinthians 6:20
    KJV: For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

    NIV: you were bought with a price. Therefore honor God with your body.
    NWT: for you were bought with a price. By all means, glorify God in the body of YOU people.
    NAB: You have been purchased, and at a price. So glorify God in your body.


    1 Corinthians 7:39
    KJV: The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

    NIV: A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord.
    NWT: A wife is bound during all the time her husband is alive. But if her husband should fall asleep [in death], she is free to be married to whom she wants, only in [the] Lord.
    NAB: A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. If her husband dies she is free to marry, but on one condition, that it be in the Lord.


    1 Corinthians 15:47
    KJV: The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

    NIV: The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven.
    NWT: The first man is out of the earth and made of dust; the second man is out of heaven.
    NAB: The first man was of earth, formed from dust, the second is from heaven.


    Galatians 3:1
    KJV: O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

    NIV: YOU FOOLISH Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.
    NWT: O senseless Galatians, who is it that brought you under evil influence, you before whose eyes Jesus Christ was openly portrayed impaled?
    NAB: You senseless Galatians! Who has cast a spell over you-you before whose eyes Jesus Christ was displayed to view upon his cross?


    Galatians 3:17
    KJV: And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

    NIV: What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise.
    NWT: Further, I say this: As to the covenant previously validated by God, the law that has come into being four hundred and thirty years later does not invalidate it, so as to abolish the promise.
    NAB: My point is this: a covenant formally ratified by God is not set aside as invalid by any law that came into being four hundred and thirty years later, nor is its promise nullified.


    Ephesians 3:9
    KJV: And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

    NIV: and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.
    NWT: and should make men see how the sacred secret is administered which has from the indefinite past been hidden in God, who created all things.
    NAB: and to enlighten all men on the mysterious design which for ages was hidden in God, the Creator of all.


    Ephesians 3:14
    KJV: For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

    NIV: For this reason I kneel before the Father,
    NWT: On account of this I bend my knees to the Father,
    NAB: This is why I kneel before the Father


    Ephesians 5:30
    KJV: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

    NIV: for we are members of his body.
    NWT: because we are members of his body.
    NAB: for we are members of his body.


    Colossians1:14
    KJV: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

    NIV: in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
    NWT: by means of whom we have our release by ransom, the forgiveness of our sins.
    NAB: Through him we have redemption, the forgiveness of our sins.


    1 Thessalonians 1:1
    KJV: Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

    NIV: PAUL, SILAS and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace and peace to you.
    NWT: Paul and Silvanus and Timothy to the congregation of the Thessalonians in union with God the father and [the] Lord Jesus Christ: May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace.
    NAB: Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, to the church of the Thessalonians who belong to God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Grace and peace be yours.


    1 Timothy 2:7
    KJV: Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

    NIV: And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle-I am telling the truth, I am not lying-and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.
    NWT: For the purpose of this witness I was appointed a preacher and an apostle-I am telling the truth, I am not lying-a teacher of nations in the matter of faith and truth.
    NAB: I have been made its herald and apostle (believe me, I am not lying but speak the truth), the teacher of the nations in the true faith


    1 Timothy 3:16
    KJV: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

    NIV: Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.
    NWT: Indeed, the sacred secret of this godly devotion is admittedly great: 'He was made manifest in flesh, was declared righteous in spirit, appeared to angels, was preached about among the nations, was believed upon in [the] world, was received up in glory.
    NAB: Wonderful, indeed, is the mystery of our faith, as we say in professing it: "He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the Spirit; Seen by the angels; preached among the Gentiles, Believed in throughout the world, taken up in glory."

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    The translation is not "the most accurate," for many passages are paraphrased rather than translated, failing to distinguish between the inspired words of the Biblical writers and the explanations, additions and omissions introduced by the translators. The versions is not the best in literary style for faithfully communicating the Word of God, because it is made to conform with the worldly expectations of unbelieving readers instead of using a style that is suited to the unique subject matter of the original. The translation is, hence, unsuitable for use by the evangelical believer, who wishes to be sure that he has in front of him a sufficiently accurate representation of the words which God spoke.
    -Trinitarian Bible Society - The New International Version
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Hebrews 7:21
    KJV: (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)

    NIV: but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him: "The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind: 'You are priest forever.' "
    NWT: (for there are indeed men that have become priests without a sworn oath, but there is one with an oath sworn by the One who said respecting him: "Jehovah has sworn (and he will feel no regret), 'You are a priest forever,' ")
    NAB: unlike Jesus to whom God said: "The Lord has sworn, and he will not repent: 'You are a priest forever, according to the order of Melchizedek. ' "


    1 Peter 1:22
    KJV: Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

    NIV: Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart.
    NWT: Now that YOU have purified YOUR souls by [YOUR] obedience to the truth with unhypocritical brotherly love as the result, love one another intensely from the heart.
    NAB: By obedience to the truth you have purified yourselves for a genuine love of your brothers; therefore, love one another constantly from the heart.


    1 John 5:7-8
    KJV: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

    NIV: {7} For there are three that testify: {8} the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
    NWT: {7} For there are three witness bearers, {8} the spirit and the water and the blood, and the three are in agreement.
    NAB: {7} Thus there are three that testify: {8} the Spirit, and the water and the blood-and these three are of one accord.


    1 John 5:13
    KJV: These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

    NIV: I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
    NWT: I write you these things that you may know that you have life everlasting, you who put your faith in the name of the Son of God
    NAB: I have written this to you to make you realize that you possess eternal life-you who believe in the name of the Son of God.


    Revelation 1:8
    KJV: 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

    NIV: "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
    NWT: "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says Jehovah God, "the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty."
    NAB: The Lord God says, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the One who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty!"


    Revelation 1:11
    KJV: Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

    NIV: which said: Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea."
    NWT: saying: "What you see write in a scroll and send it to the seven congregations, in Ephesus and in Smyrna and in Pergamum and in Thyatira and in Sardis and in Philadelphia and in Laodicea.
    NAB: which said, "Write on a scroll what you now see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea."


    Revelation 5:14
    KJV: And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

    NIV: The four living creatures said, "Amen," and the elders fell down and worshiped.
    NWT: And the four living creatures went saying: "Amen!" and the older persons fell down and worshiped.
    NAB: The four living creatures answered, "Amen," and the elders fell down and worshiped.


    Revelation 20:12
    KJV: And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

    NIV: And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
    NWT: And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened; it is the scroll of life. And the dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds.
    NAB: I saw the dead, the great and the lowly, standing before the throne. Lastly among the scrolls, the book of the living was opened. The dead were judged according to their conduct as recorded on the scrolls.


    Revelation 21:24
    KJV: And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

    NIV: The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it.
    NWT: And the nations will walk by means of its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.
    NAB: The four living creatures answered, "Amen," and the elders fell down and worshiped.

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    Scripture verses marked (NWT) are from the New World Translation. Copyright 1961 by the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania.

    Scripture verses marked (NAB) are from the New American Bible, copyright 1970 by the Confraternity of Christian Doctrine, Washington, D.C. (St. Joseph's Edition)

    No permission needed to quote NIV, it is under 1,000 verses.

    With The King James Version, you don't need anyone's permission to quote because it is God's Word not man's.

    After reading the comparisons, there are only two summaries which can be arrived at:

    1) The NIV is as corrupt as the NWT, or
    2) The NWT is as accurate as the NIV

  • #2
    Have you ever considered the possibility that the translators of the King James Bible relied on manuscripts in which additions had been made and other translations simply corrected the errors in the KJB?
    Clyde Herrin's Blog
    Comment>

    • #3
      Originally posted by Calvarystudy View Post
      KJV - King James Version
      NIV - New International Version
      NAB - New American Bible (Roman Catholic Church)
      NWT - New World Translation (Jehovah's Witnesses)

      Matthew 8:29
      KJV: And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

      NIV: "What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?"
      NWT: And, look! they screamed, saying: "What have we to do with you, Son of God? Did you come here to torment us before the appointed time?"
      NAB: With a sudden shriek they cried: "Why meddle with us, Son of God? Have you come to torture us before the appointed time?"
      This is a load of nonsense.
      I will waste only enough time to examine the first verse which you present as evidence and offer several other translations of the verse:


      [NLT]: They began screaming at him, “Why are you interfering with us, Son of God? Have you come here to torture us before God’s appointed time?”

      [ESV]: And behold, they cried out, “What have you to do with us, O Son of God? Have you come here to torment us before the time?”

      [HCSB]: Suddenly they shouted, “What do You have to do with us, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time? ”

      [NASB]: And they cried out, saying, “What business do we have with each other, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?”

      [NET]: They cried out, "Son of God, leave us alone! Have you come here to torment us before the time?"

      [RSV]: And behold, they cried out, "What have you to do with us, O Son of God? Have you come here to torment us before the time?"

      [ASV]: And behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

      [YLT]: and lo, they cried out, saying, 'What -- to us and to thee, Jesus, Son of God? didst thou come hither, before the time, to afflict us?'

      [DBY]: And behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Son of God? hast thou come here before the time to torment us?

      [MGNT]: καὶ ἰδοὺ ἔκραξαν λέγοντες τί ἡμῖν καὶ σοί υἱὲ τοῦ θεοῦ ἦλθες ὧδε πρὸ καιροῦ βασανίσαι ἡμᾶς

      [TR]: αὶ ἰδού, ἔκραξαν λέγοντες Τί ἡμῖν καὶ σοί, Ἰησοῦ υἱὲ τοῦ θεοῦ ἠλθες ὧδε πρὸ καιροῦ βασανίσαι ἡμᾶς


      Notice how many valid translations by legitimate Greek scholars translate the message in slightly different wording. The intent of comparing KJV on the one hand, with NIV lumped together with the Roman Catholic Church and Jehovah's Witness bibles was a guilt by association. Unfortunately, if we are really to believe your argument, then there have been NO Biblical Scholars since the 1600's and certainly none in the last 200 years since the majority of translations seem to agree.

      Second, notice that all of the translations of Matthew 8:29 convey the same truth. Even the NAB and NWT agree with the message of the KJV and NIV (and all of the others) on what the original Greek means. Truth is conveyed in all translations of that verse. So what exactly is your point?

      Third, the only significant difference between the KJV and NIV translations, other than Shakespearean grammar, is the inclusion or omission of the word 'Jesus'. Note the last two translations that I provided. The [TR] was compiled from manuscripts available in the 1500's, was used to create the KJV, NKJV and YLT translations and contained the word 'Jesus'. The [MGNT] was compiled starting in the 1800's and included many new copies of manuscripts that had been discovered and made available to scholars after the creation of the TR. Older manuscripts of Matthew 8:29 did not include the word 'Jesus', so modern translations based on the MGNT do not include the word 'Jesus'. As a practical matter, including or omitting the name 'Jesus' does not alter the meaning of Matthew 8:29 one iota. God does not have so many 'Son of God' that it is vital to clarify that the demons were speaking of Jesus. It is obvious that they were calling Jesus the Son of God.

      As I said in the beginning, this is not scholarship. This is drivel.
      I could refute each of the so-called omissions but it is not worth the time or effort.


      It don't pass the laugh test.
      Comment>

      • #4
        Originally posted by Calvarystudy View Post
        With The King James Version, you don't need anyone's permission to quote because it is God's Word not man's.
        Actually, the original Greek manuscripts (NT) and Hebrew manuscripts (OT) written by the original authors are God's Word (as is Jesus, the Word made flesh). The copyright on the KJV has just expired placing it in the public domain. That is why you do not need permission to quote it.

        The KJV Bible was translated by men and the first few printings contained LOTS of typographic errors that needed correcting in later printings. I think there were several early revisions as well.
        Comment>

        • #5
          Originally posted by atpollard View Post
          The copyright on the KJV has just expired placing it in the public domain.
          Not in Britain it hasn't. In Britain it is Crown Copyright in perpetuity. As for the rest of the world, copyright laws probably didn't even exist in 1611.

          Comment>

          • #6
            Originally posted by atpollard View Post
            Actually, the original Greek manuscripts (NT) and Hebrew manuscripts (OT) written by the original authors are God's Word (as is Jesus, the Word made flesh). The copyright on the KJV has just expired placing it in the public domain. That is why you do not need permission to quote it.

            The KJV Bible was translated by men and the first few printings contained LOTS of typographic errors that needed correcting in later printings. I think there were several early revisions as well.


            WHICH Greek manuscripts? The Antioch ones or the Alexandrian?
            Comment>

            • #7
              Originally posted by Calvarystudy View Post



              WHICH Greek manuscripts? The Antioch ones or the Alexandrian?
              It is not the job of textual critics to play party politics with one text type or another, but to use ALL of the available evidence to reconstruct what was originally written.
              Comment>

              • #8
                Originally posted by atpollard View Post

                This is a load of nonsense.
                I will waste only enough time to examine the first verse which you present as evidence and offer several other translations of the verse:


                [NLT]: They began screaming at him, “Why are you interfering with us, Son of God? Have you come here to torture us before God’s appointed time?”

                [ESV]: And behold, they cried out, “What have you to do with us, O Son of God? Have you come here to torment us before the time?”

                [HCSB]: Suddenly they shouted, “What do You have to do with us, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time? ”

                [NASB]: And they cried out, saying, “What business do we have with each other, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?”

                [NET]: They cried out, "Son of God, leave us alone! Have you come here to torment us before the time?"

                [RSV]: And behold, they cried out, "What have you to do with us, O Son of God? Have you come here to torment us before the time?"

                [ASV]: And behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

                [YLT]: and lo, they cried out, saying, 'What -- to us and to thee, Jesus, Son of God? didst thou come hither, before the time, to afflict us?'

                [DBY]: And behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Son of God? hast thou come here before the time to torment us?

                [MGNT]: καὶ ἰδοὺ ἔκραξαν λέγοντες τί ἡμῖν καὶ σοί υἱὲ τοῦ θεοῦ ἦλθες ὧδε πρὸ καιροῦ βασανίσαι ἡμᾶς

                [TR]: αὶ ἰδού, ἔκραξαν λέγοντες Τί ἡμῖν καὶ σοί, Ἰησοῦ υἱὲ τοῦ θεοῦ ἠλθες ὧδε πρὸ καιροῦ βασανίσαι ἡμᾶς


                Notice how many valid translations by legitimate Greek scholars translate the message in slightly different wording. The intent of comparing KJV on the one hand, with NIV lumped together with the Roman Catholic Church and Jehovah's Witness bibles was a guilt by association.

                Wrong. If you see the "family tree" you will see they ARE related. the KJV is not. They are all influenced by westcott and hort i think and you ought to read what THEY believed!

                Unfortunately, if we are really to believe your argument, then there have been NO Biblical Scholars since the 1600's and certainly none in the last 200 years since the majority of translations seem to agree.

                I am not asking you to believe me. Mearly to not be scared to EXAMINE the translations.

                Second, notice that all of the translations of Matthew 8:29 convey the same truth. Even the NAB and NWT agree with the message of the KJV and NIV (and all of the others) on what the original Greek means. Truth is conveyed in all translations of that verse. So what exactly is your point?

                Wow, a verse correct in ALL translations? Great! That means they are ALL right. I am convinced. I mean, come on. Seriously? Also, you said "the original Greek". WHICH "original Greek"? SHOW ME this "original Greek", please.

                Third, the only significant difference between the KJV and NIV translations, other than Shakespearean grammar, is the inclusion or omission of the word 'Jesus'. Note the last two translations that I provided. The [TR] was compiled from manuscripts available in the 1500's, was used to create the KJV, NKJV and YLT translations and contained the word 'Jesus'. The [MGNT] was compiled starting in the 1800's and included many new copies of manuscripts that had been discovered and made available to scholars after the creation of the TR. Older manuscripts of Matthew 8:29 did not include the word 'Jesus', so modern translations based on the MGNT do not include the word 'Jesus'. As a practical matter, including or omitting the name 'Jesus' does not alter the meaning of Matthew 8:29 one iota. God does not have so many 'Son of God' that it is vital to clarify that the demons were speaking of Jesus. It is obvious that they were calling Jesus the Son of God.

                That is a lie. We are not talking mainly about grammer, but the REMOVAL of over 64,000 words! Plus the CHANGING of words to mean not the same thing ( Bringing an "old" word "up to date" because people are too lazy to google the meaning is one thing if the two words mean the same thing, but to change the word to another word that means something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT is unforgivable.) "Shrine prostitute" is NOT the same as "sodomite". removing the word "begotten" from John 3:16 is important too, as is the bastardization of the Lords' prayer.

                WHY did they REMOVE the name of Jesus? Do they hate Him that much?


                As I said in the beginning, this is not scholarship. This is drivel.

                How do you know, you didnt even read it. I would guess you love the NIV and HATE the KJV and just glanced at a few lines.

                I could refute each of the so-called omissions but it is not worth the time or effort.


                It don't pass the laugh test.
                Comment>

                • #9
                  Originally posted by atpollard View Post
                  Notice how many valid translations by legitimate Greek scholars translate the message in slightly different wording. The intent of comparing KJV on the one hand, with NIV lumped together with the Roman Catholic Church and Jehovah's Witness bibles was a guilt by association. Unfortunately, if we are really to believe your argument, then there have been NO Biblical Scholars since the 1600's and certainly none in the last 200 years since the majority of translations seem to agree.

                  But WHAT are they translating?
                  Comment>

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ThyWordisTruth View Post
                    Not in Britain it hasn't. In Britain it is Crown Copyright in perpetuity. As for the rest of the world, copyright laws probably didn't even exist in 1611.
                    I stand corrected on UK copyright law. In the US all works published before a certain date have their copyright expired. Does the British Crown recognize the KJV text as the "word of God" and not subject to copyright by men as the OP states?

                    Comment>

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by atpollard View Post
                      I stand corrected on UK copyright law. In the US all works published before a certain date have their copyright expired. Does the British Crown recognize the KJV text as the "word of God" and not subject to copyright by men as the OP states?
                      As I said, the KJV is Crown Copyright in Britain, and you need a licence from Cambridge University Press before you can print it.
                      Comment>

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Calvarystudy View Post
                        WHICH Greek manuscripts? The Antioch ones or the Alexandrian?
                        I have no idea. The minutiae of biblical textural scholarship is neither an area of expertise nor interest for me. However, I know that there are THOUSANDS of copies of manuscripts and many more manuscript fragments. I also know the letters from the early church fathers contain about 90% of the text (in Greek) in the form of copies, thus 90% of the bible could be reproduced even if no manuscripts survived.

                        Frankly, you are making a mountain out of a mole hill since my NIV bible has footnotes that tell me where phrases appear in some manuscripts but not others or where some manuscripts end chapters earlier than other later manuscripts. Thus the words and lines you list as 'omitted' are not omitted, they are simply noted as appearing in some manuscripts, but not the oldest.

                        You have still missed the point that none of what is 'missing' changes any significant Christian Doctrine. You have also not adressed the fact that your so-called 'Dr' has resorted to cheap and ineffective debate tricks like guilt by association rather than presenting some real translation errors based upon a knowledge of the original language.

                        Yes, modern translations are guilty of not using a 1550 compilation of the Greek manuscripts by Erasmus to translate from. You have yet to show ANY harm was done, let alone that all modern translations are no better than the JW Bible (which denies the deity of Christ in John 1, something that I consider a big deal). Your scholarship is a hack job of distorted misinformation. That no real denomination or serious scholar supports that view speaks volumes. Even the Church of England does not teach that the KJV is the only accurate translation of the Bible.
                        Comment>

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by atpollard View Post
                          I have no idea.
                          AT LAST!

                          That is EXACTLY my point.

                          You see, the difference between you and i is that I CARE about what i am reading.

                          "Yes, modern translations are guilty of not using a 1550 compilation of the Greek manuscripts by Erasmus to translate from."

                          Erasmus had NOTHING to do with the KJV texts.
                          Comment>

                          • #14
                            Before I shake the dust off and leave you to your folly, here are all of the verses found in the KJV and omitted in the NIV:

                            Mat 17:21
                            Mat 18:11
                            Mat 23:14
                            Mar 7:16
                            Mar 9:44
                            Mar 9:46
                            Mar 11:26
                            Mar 15:28



                            Only one question for you ... which is essential for Salvation?
                            ... For any major Christian Doctrine?

                            Show me it matters even a little except to your non-denomination cult.
                            Comment>

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by atpollard View Post
                              Show me it matters even a little except to your non-denomination cult.
                              I have personally attacked no-one. You are personally attacking me. Presumably because you hate the truth and have no response.

                              You need to repent and come to Jesus.

                              Comment>
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