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Born again - and again !

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  • Born again - and again !

    It is not in the Bible that Christians must be born again - any comments - wincam

  • #2
    Originally posted by wincam View Post
    It is not in the Bible that Christians must be born again - any comments - wincam
    On one hand I agree. And on the other hand I disagree. Depends on how you define Christian. If you were to suggest that a disciple is a Christian and someone like Judas Iscariot could be a disciple and a later Christian then yes, one does not need to be born again to be a Christian or follower of Christ just like Judas wasn't.

    God bless,
    William
    Comment>

    • #3
      Originally posted by William View Post

      On one hand I agree. And on the other hand I disagree. Depends on how you define Christian. If you were to suggest that a disciple is a Christian and someone like Judas Iscariot could be a disciple and a later Christian then yes, one does not need to be born again to be a Christian or follower of Christ just like Judas wasn't.

      God bless,
      William

      let us not assume or surmise or conjecture or imagine but define a Christian as defined by the Bible and the Church - wincam

      Comment>

      • #4
        Originally posted by wincam View Post


        let us not assume or surmise or conjecture or imagine but define a Christian as defined by the Bible and the Church - wincam
        I'm all ears if you care to add to anything.

        William
        Comment>

        • #5
          Originally posted by William View Post

          I'm all ears if you care to add to anything.

          William
          Me too!

          Comment>

          • #6
            II Cor. 5:17.......Therefore if any man be in Christ he is a new creature; old things have passed away, behold all things are made new.

            Perhaps I am missing something. Am I to assume that we are talking about the difference of being a follower of Jesus and someone who is truly "in" Christ?

            One can surely say that those whose faith falls into the Islamic fashion are indeed aware of Jesus and His teachings making them somewhat a follower of Jesus but definitely not followers of the Christ.

            Possibly I'm hitching my horse up to the wrong tree, so please do treat me as an inferior and instruct me as to the premise of the argument.

            May God Bless........Bobby

            Comment>

            • #7
              Originally posted by Bobby Cole View Post
              II Cor. 5:17.......Therefore if any man be in Christ he is a new creature; old things have passed away, behold all things are made new.

              Perhaps I am missing something. Am I to assume that we are talking about the difference of being a follower of Jesus and someone who is truly "in" Christ?

              One can surely say that those whose faith falls into the Islamic fashion are indeed aware of Jesus and His teachings making them somewhat a follower of Jesus but definitely not followers of the Christ.

              Possibly I'm hitching my horse up to the wrong tree, so please do treat me as an inferior and instruct me as to the premise of the argument.

              May God Bless........Bobby
              Your question was created by Wincam's vague question/statement.

              My distinction comes between a disciple and follower of Christ (Christian as they were first called in Antioch). I'm just pointing out that Judas I. was a disciple of Christ, and also followed Jesus (ian attached to Christ), here, there, and everywhere (Dr. Seuss).

              Wincam actually brings an enticing question to light, if he/she is Catholic and believes in baptismal regeneration, then are all disciples born again (was Judas baptized or did he baptize?) if they were baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? From a Reformed perspective, I wouldn't count out the possibility of Regeneration at the time of baptism, but only would emphasize that the timing is not necessarily certain towards the remission of sins from the date of baptism or as the Nicene Creed has it. We believe in one one baptism.... which threw me off for a moment because he stated:

              let us not assume or surmise or conjecture or imagine but define a Christian as defined by the Bible and the Church - wincam
              I think "defined by the Church" from a Catholic perspective will actually bring Wincam to recognize an apparent contradiction if one is required to be baptized (baptismal regeneration and initiation) into the Church. What we do with that apparent contradiction seemingly makes us Catholic or Protestant.

              God bless,
              William
              Comment>

              • #8
                Originally posted by William View Post

                Your question was created by Wincam's vague question/statement.

                My distinction comes between a disciple and follower of Christ (Christian as they were first called in Antioch). I'm just pointing out that Judas I. was a disciple of Christ, and also followed Jesus (ian attached to Christ), here, there, and everywhere (Dr. Seuss).

                Wincam actually brings an enticing question to light, if he/she is Catholic and believes in baptismal regeneration, then are all disciples born again (was Judas baptized or did he baptize?) if they were baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? From a Reformed perspective, I wouldn't count out the possibility of Regeneration at the time of baptism, but only would emphasize that the timing is not necessarily certain towards the remission of sins from the date of baptism or as the Nicene Creed has it. We believe in one one baptism.... which through me off for a moment because he stated:



                I think "defined by the Church" from a Catholic perspective will actually bring Wincam to recognize an apparent contradiction if one is required to be baptized (baptismal regeneration and initiation) into the Church. What we do with that apparent contradiction is increasingly making me aware of our differences, that is, between Catholicism and Protestantism.

                God bless,
                William
                The definition of "Christian" is what is throwing me in Wincam's thread starter. As you wrote William, the term wasn't used until the Antioch narrative so no, the Bible would NOT say anything regarding Christians being saved, only that one must be born again. Hmmm.......in actuality, I am going to have to look up the word "saved" just for context.

                To me, the whole demeanor of the thread is that of a play on words rather than an actual study. Now, as for a good study, you have brought some interesting perspectives to light William, which I might like to take a bit of time to think about for I wouldn't wish to go off topic. ( which I am bound to do at this point ).

                God Bless again........Bobby

                Comment>
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